HACKER Q&A
📣 elric

How are you preparing for PEPPOL?


Couldn't find any previous discussions on PEPPOL on HN. If you're unfamiliar with it, it is an electronic invoicing network, which the EU is starting to force on businesses. All business-to-business invoices in Belgium will have to be sent over PEPPOL as of next year [1]. Gone will be the days of emailing PDFs.

This obviously impacts every business which deals with other businesses. Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive. Not only will you have to use the network to send your invoices, you will also have to receive them somehow. If you're a small business, this could get pretty complicated pretty quickly.

I'm assuming we have some EU business owners/freelancers/entrepreneurs on HN. How are you preparing for this (apparently inevitable) future of PEPPOL?

[1] https://finance.belgium.be/en/enterprises/vat/e-invoicing/ma...


  👤 magicalhippo Accepted Answer ✓
We make a niche B2B software which has an invoicing module and we've had to add EHF[1] support, which is the Norwegian implementation of electronic invoices delivered through PEPPOL.

The gov't in Norway has mandated use of EHF for billing the gov't for about a decade now, which really drove adoption. Our customers has to have an agreement with one of the access points[3], so the cost of sending the EHF goes directly to the customer.

Adding support wasn't terribly hard, but it wasn't trivial either. The XML is fairly straight forward, but when you submit one the access point doesn't just do a schema verification, it also verifies that intermediate values are calculated and rounded correctly for example.

[1]: https://anskaffelser.dev/postaward/g3/spec/current/billing-3...

[2]: https://peppol.org/learn-more/country-profiles/norway/

[3]: https://anskaffelser.no/verktoy/veiledere/aksesspunkter-ehf-...


👤 Semaphor
It doesn’t seem to be EU-mandated? Only Italy and Belgium have it mandatory, according to [0], in other countries it’s only relevant for B2G.

Outside that Wikipedia entry, I have also heard nothing about it becoming required in Germany (we are mainly B2C, but do some B2B and B2G), here we are instead moving forward with X-Rechnung/ZUGFeRD/Factur-X, which is an XML standard that can also be embedded in PDFs, and doesn’t require certification or anything.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PEPPOL


👤 erwinmatijsen
I’m using bookkeeping software that has already integrated it. It’s just a switch to turn sending invoices via peppol. It’s no extra charge on my paid plan.

I’m assuming all bookkeeping software will integrate it, just as all suppliers are able to send PDF invoices.

For the ones sending invoices manually, like OP, maybe software with free tiers will pop up. Just like many suppliers have free tiers for sending PDF invoices.


👤 Dalewyn
>All business-to-business invoices in Belgium will have to be sent over PEPPOL as of next year [1]. Gone will be the days of emailing PDFs.

>Access to the PEPPOL network is not free. Direct access is nearly impossible (it is expensive and requires technical audits). A variety of third parties are popping up to mediate access. They all seem complex and expensive.

So what you're saying is that a certain group of companies ("third parties") successfully lobbied your government(s) to mandate an artificial monopoly on a practical necessity for ostensibly honorable and convenient reasons, and everyone will pay up for this divine virtue.

I'm sorry if this comes off as dismissive, but as an American who deals in this sort of officework as part of $dayjob you guys need to vote in better politicians.


👤 imaximix
Developer working on Peppol Access Point here.

We have this nifty description:

Peppol is a global network that simplifies electronic document exchange, like invoices and purchase orders. It uses a standardized format to automate invoicing and procurement processes.

The network operates on a four-corner model involving senders, service providers, and receivers, ensuring seamless communication. By partnering with a certified Peppol Access Point (some has been mentioned, e.g., Maventa is another), you can tap into this network with ease and broaden your global reach. It’s a valid solution when you can’t set resources aside for this.

So, the options are: [1]: If you’re a software provider, partner with a Peppol-certified provider [2]: If you’re a business, you may already have access if using particular ERP or invoicing software. Ask them!

At least Maventa offers global invoice access without extra charges. Integration and user registration are free; fees apply based on Peppol usage only.

AMA


👤 rozenmd
There's a Stripe app in their marketplace for sending invoices over PEPPOL, I'm sure it'll become a feature once it's mandatory in enough places.

Here in France there's a similar system, I just require a certain tier to accept payments through it.


👤 slau
I’m using VISMA e-conomic to do my bookkeeping/invoicing. They launched an eInvoice system some time ago which I would expect was PEPPOL based, or something similar. They enabled it by default without informing anyone.

A couple of my clients didn’t see the invoice in my monthly email, so they asked me to resend it. I re-sent the PDF manually.

To address OP’s question: I don’t expect it will change much for me. The customer configuration will let me choose whether the invoice is sent by email or another way, and I’ll still create my invoice by clicking “book and send” in e-conomic.


👤 42lux
It’s really not that complicated or expensive. Broken down for most people it’s gonna work just like email. What’s your grievance besides the general stuff in your post?

👤 B1zz3y_
I can shed some light on this topic. Since I own a SaaS which is focused on freelancers & SME's.

The EU is becoming very regulated when it comes to sending / receiving invoices. Basic invoicing tools that offer PDF are not sufficient anymore.

You could say I'll run my own peppol access point but the economics of doing so for a single person doesn't make sense. You're looking at a basic yearly fee of 2000 euros just for the peppol membership and on top of that you need to get certified by third parties looking at another couple of thousands euros just to be able to send and receive some invoices.

My best advice is to search for an affordable tool that takes away this complexity away for you. I know that previously you could send for free, but that's going to end if you like it or not.

I run my SaaS at https://www.bizzey.com which is a business tool that you can fully customize and peppol sending and receiving is supported (it's also completely "free" in a sense that you just pay the subscription and nothing on top)


👤 aarroyoc
In Spain it is mandatory since this year. There's a free Java app by the government, FACTURAe, that is capable of generating the digital invoices and it's not that complicated to use. Electronic invoices have been mandatory for public administrations for 10 years already.

👤 tene80i
What’s your reference for the EU forcing this on businesses? The link you provided is only about Belgium.

👤 merb
In Germany peppol will not be mandatory for a very very long time. Most people still sending invoices via mail, even in b2b. Only in 2027 will make electronic invoices (xml format) mandatory, it will probably another 2-5 years until peppol will be necessary.

👤 jve
Our local accounting app just supports it. And as I understand participating to PEPPOL network is not mandatory - you can still send those electronic invoices via email as far as I understand. But yeah, your accounting software better support PEPPOL.

👤 sebmellen
This thread is already the 2nd most popular search result for “PEPPOL” which surprised me. There isn’t much else out there on this topic. How are non tech enabled businesses planning to comply with this order?

👤 Nica25
I’m using an intermediary saas platform that has a free plan. I don’t like being forced to use an external provider, just for being able to send invoices, but at least it’s not costing me any money (yet).

👤 drchaim
I was thinking about how governments could, if they have invested in good and simple tech, being the API suppliers (free) and an interface (paid). They “should” know the rules, let me fill some boxes and the invoice is sent to the client and to the gov. The overloaded market of acc software disrupted by gov? Let me dream ;)

👤 svilen_dobrev
i have some experience with another such protocol, for customs , to/from EU. About 15 years ago, it was made mandatory (in Bulgaria). A friend of mine suggested we make a software for filling those forms, and handle the XML-message-passing-and-signing and FSMs and all-that, and sell it. Took me few months, did it, then got few clients.. which used it for about 2 years, with updates of rules once in a while, and then one day the government published a free pdf-like generator for those XMLs, and we had to close - regardless of other niceties, people needed mostly the forms, and the new free ones were good-enough - and kept updated.

👤 jtthe13
Definitely going to be a smart follower on this one. My accountant pretty much convinced me to let others experiment if they want, on our end we have a peppol compatible system, so we'll enable the feature a few days before it becomes mandatory.

👤 AznHisoka
Are all invoices in this network public or only the ones you sent/receieved?

👤 Lionga
Romania has a similar system for some time. The over regulation in EU is bad, but still better then a grifter president, that uses a shit coin to scam the people.

👤 jesterson
Wow, didn't know that. Seems like crooks in Brussels are trying to impoverish europeans further up, while latter are already taxed to the brink.

Additional revenue for access plus data who paid who for what, perfect set up for communist EU.

As european living outside of that happy garden, eeally hope it will collapse soon and countries in it will gain real independence.