As a very small, but highly frequent example, I’ll invite an acquaintance to get a coffee or beer with me a few times but never have this acquaintance seemingly think of me if I’m not directly asking them to hang.
I can’t really figure out why. Maybe I’m a boring person? Maybe I’m abrasive? Maybe most people like to stay in a perpetual state of acquaintance-ness?
How do you fix something like this if you can’t diagnose what’s wrong?
Learning how to be emotionally vulnerable is key to actually connecting with people. The book "Models" by Mark Manson is a pretty good primer on the importance of emotional vulnerability to connect with people. It is sort-of a dating advice book, but I've found it helpful for making regular friendships and connecting with my own family as well.
Another thing that is helpful is learning how to communicate assertively- which is the opposite of being emotionally manipulative. The book "When I say no I feel guilty" is particularly good introduction to assertive communication. A lot of people only learned emotionally manipulative communication, and will be avoided by almost anyone that sees that for what it is.
Counter-intuitively, not being desperate is critical. Be willing to judge if someone is worth your time, and be willing to disagree with people or say no, without letting the fear of being rejected control you. The same authenticity and vulnerability that will make people really connect with you, will also drive some people away, and that is totally fine. The goal is not to be friends with everyone, but to make good friends with people you are compatible with.
Therapy can often be helpful for developing all 3 of the above skills.
Lastly, take the initiative to make things happen. Invite someone to do activities several times before expecting them to reciprocate. People tend to be busy, shy, stressed, etc. - just because people don't reach out doesn't mean they don't like you.
I'm nearly 50 and an extrovert and I've found that healthy and fulfilling relations are a function of reciprocity.
I'm willing to engage with someone 3x and see if they'll reciprocate. If not, I move on--no hard feelings, just realizing it's not a mutual fit.
This rule has served me immensely well in my friends. As a result, I have nearly no loose friends--just very tight, reliable connections.
This is a great start! You’re already doing what most people find the hardest: making the first move.
Grabbing coffee, and even going out to dinner, aren’t good activities for making deep connections. They’re too short and too routine. They can work, it’ll just take longer, and you will have to work harder to make sure conversation is meaningful.
I think the best way to make real friendships is to go on a weekend trip somewhere together. First of all, you’re spending days together instead of hours, but more importantly, you’ll have a shared experience to remember. You get to see what someone is like not only during activities and meals, but also during downtime.
Weekend trips could be awkward if it’s just one on one though, so if you don’t have a group, the next best thing is doing an activity together. Figure out a shared interest, then invite your new friend to do something you’d both enjoy. Maybe it’s a concert, talk, hike, whatever. Do that a few times and your new friend will associate you with that activity. Next time they’re going to a concert/talk/hike or whatever, they’ll invite you to tag along.
Even those hard, messy, I don’t think you’ll like me or you’ll think I’m crazy thoughts.
“I will be truthful with you and you with me, and we will find ourselves in this knowing.
People think that intimacy is about sex. But intimacy is about truth.
When you realize you can tell someone your truth, when you can show yourself to them, when you stand in front of them and their response is “you’re safe with me” - that’s intimacy.”
— Taylor Jenkins Reid
What we tried to do was basically inviting all our neighbors over, always being nice without trying too hard. At first some would not even say hello back. After a while we developed relationships that are not very deep yet, but we’re getting somewhere. It takes time, a lot of time.
What I would suggest is that you try many different people (neighbors, fellow parents from school, work colleagues) if one relationship doesn’t pan out. Eventually you’ll find someone with whom you will “click”. For me the best relationships I got was with the former work colleagues, we just kept in touch and hanged out after work.
Anecdotally, know yourself. And make an effort. Cast your nets deep, not wide. Have morals, have ideas, have grounding principals. Principals that are malleable over time and experience. It helps to have a “North Star” in life.
I live by: Live very simply, be genuine, be honest no matter what, love deeply.
Have “strong opinions held loosely”. Don’t have shallow insights, be educated, read deeply, learn deeply.
Don’t be a sheep. That is the default most boring state in the world. It makes for boring people and interactions. Question that status quo. But don’t do it just because a person on the internet said, see how it relates to your principles.
I’ve lost a lot of friends over the years, it happens, many times was due to how I was as a person at the time.
But learning from my partner has made me a more principled person, comfortable in my own skin now.
I have a very small amount of close relationships with friends, and they are relationships not bound by time or upkeep or location.
We mostly catch up when we can a few times a year, and have deep life discussions and catching up on their life. It helps that they are genuinely some of the smartest people I’ve ever met.
I facilitate a lot of the meetups. I’ve learnt to be okay with this, I people have busy lives. Younger me used to take this personally, and think “why do I have to do everything”, but that’s just my role, and the relationships are worth the effort.
I say this from experience, most interactions with people are very shallow. I think people shy away from connections as there is a world full of potential connections. Analysis paralysis and perfection.
So you just have to be the bigger person and make the effort, but you also have to determine whether a person is worth making an effort for.
To answer that question, look for people that are:
- not materialistic; genuine; caring; kind; honest to a fault; living life
One thing I've seen him do, which I have a real hard time with, but it seems to be successful, is he makes the effort without judging the other person.
>I’ll invite an acquaintance to get a coffee or beer with me a few times but never have this acquaintance seemingly think of me if I’m not directly asking them to hang.
When my dad talks about it, he says that he recognizes people are busy and if someone doesn't reach out, things go on the back burner. Making plans isn't easy, and many people will accept plans or even want them, but have too much other stuff going on to spend the time to do it.
I'm pretty sure he schedules when he follows up with people so the ball doesn't get dropped and the relationship is maintained. Every few months I'll get a call from him asking to get together for dinner, it's completely one sided, but he never holds it against me. He knows I'm busy with work and stuff.
If people are accepting the invites you make and not making excuses, that must mean they still want to see you.
I always assume people are busy or don't want to commute. I had a friend reach out who I text with regularly, but haven't seen in 2 years. He asked if I wanted to go to a concert. I said sure, and we went. He lives 1.5 hours away. I would have never thought to ask him to go to a concern on a Wednesday that would require him to make arrangements for his kids, spend 3 hours in the car, and all that... but apparently it's something he's willing to do. Who knew...
In the past I was quito often very surprised/disappointed to yield the result you describe. A lot of people have busy lives. Chances that the acquaintance would randomly invite you back are low, unless you became good friends. There's some 'uncommon magick' or chemistry involved in becoming close friends. Don't take it personally.
My advice would be basically come into contact with a lot of people, ie
- taking up a hobby where other people are involved. You already have the benefit of a common interest.
- talk AND listen to 'random' people for example in a shop while waiting, at the gym, in the waiting room of the dentist etc. People tend to like and trust people who easily talk and listen with empathy.
- hang around with people of your same age.
Disinhibition is a social lubricant. We are so used to being safe because that's what the workplace requires, that we've lost the ability to be disinhibited around closer relationships. People who can be disinhibited and show their flaws are really attractive. But it doesn't come free, some people will reject you more. And that's ok.
I will accept almost every social engagement with people I like, though.
So: maybe it's not you.
>Are You Your Friends’ Friend? Poor Perception of Friendship Ties Limits the Ability to Promote Behavioral Change
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...
Everyone I “socialized with”; beers, movies, games… no longer in my life.
Solving real problems builds real connection. Everything else was staring at modernist entertainment which isn’t “real”. They are transient experiences. No group skills building sitting on our collective asses staring at the circus.
A colleague might be a fun character telling stories over a beer but also professionally useless.
If a colleague invited me out for a coffee - and we didn't really know each other in the office - I would be suspicious as to their motive.
(2) Be Childlike in your approach to life and relationships
(1) Honest Living
If your boring (and I don't know if you are), its probably because you stopped pursuing things that you wanted and excited you for something safe. Boring people also mask their emotions when speaking to people to avoid rejection.
To find people you genuinely connect with, you need to express yourself fully. Honest expressions will make you more polarizing, and you will experience rejection. But the people you connect with will be much deeper because they see who you actually are.
Honest living usually means some therapy or self reflection to identify the things in your life you stopped purusing. A simple litmus test: you are in a social situation and see a person you find attractive. Do you make excuses for not talking to them or go and talk to them, openly stating your interest?
(2) Childlike
Children play until they get hurt or get in trouble. Do you approach relationships with this attitude? Is your heart open to loving other people even if it hurts and they reject you?
For gelling with new people and bringing them into your own circle, it's good to understand that it's a numbers game too. Figuring out social groups that you enjoy should always be the main goal. I have real life friends who love climbing, and we already budgeted time for climbing, so we usually hang out before or after a session and it hits all the same. Similarly, online friends who like building video games like me can sometimes spare the time to play or develop together.
Increasing your surface area in this way is a great way to start! As you get acquainted with more people, the chances that you have at least one person to hang out with at any time increases greatly, and in turn that they will want to hang out with you.
When we think about relationships and who is responsible for what, we may think something like this: In a two-person relationship, each person is responsible for 50% of maintaining the relationship. Together, this adds up to 100%.
However, in this scenario, if one person is not able to live up to this, and only does 49%, and the other person is doing their share of 50%, the relationship maintenance is now at only 99% of the requirement, 1% short.
So the solution to this vulnerability, is at least one (or, ideally, both) people to assume responsibility for all 100% of the relationship maintenance. This way, if you are aiming for 100%, and you fall short, you are still likely to end up with at least 100% or more.
We tend to not get personal and if you don't have deeper more meaningful conversations with someone you can't really become "friends."
I've only had a few friends my entire life and I've lost most of them.
You have to risk the relationship - the very thoughts you fear, the thoughts "Oh, I could never ask that, they'll hate me."
Those thoughts. You have to voice them.
It's the only way to maintain intimacy and reveal who you truly are.
One of them is that this kind of people are generally in the minds of their friends/acquaintances. And one of the reasons there is that they see them as very good listeners during conversations. They match their conversation style, they confirm what they’ve been talking about with feedback and this sort of behaviour that tend to help people build trust and friendships.
I’m not done with the book yet, but I can see many things relating to what I generally practice. And I’ve got good friends :)
When people invited me to do things I used to hedge and say I’ll get back to them later. And if I couldn’t make it I’d just say so: as if the date and time were the issue at hand. Never even thinking of suggesting an alternate.
One day I realized it’s a big deal for some people to want to initiate a friendship and make the first step.
So now I excitedly agree to whatever they suggest and if there’s a reason I can’t make it I let them know a day later and suggest a new time.
That way they associate it with something positive and it keeps the momentum going.
"Never let a task to be accomplished be more important than a person to be loved."
"The primary feeling in any interaction should be love."
"Observe and serve."
This does not mean failure to speak only truth in kindness as appropriate, or to set boundaries when necessary. I think Jesus Christ's example of understanding, truth, and kindness are ideal for us all.
Also as some have hinted here, being a good listener, asking questions, caring about others' background and well-being in general, being humble, willing to share when appropriate, and looking for the good and things to appreciate in others, and ways to serve, can go a long way. Interesting volunteering opportunities (where you would meet people as a side-effect) might be found at https://justserve.org if available in your area.
Attached https://www.amazon.com/Attached-Science-Adult-Attachment-You...
A General Theory of Love https://www.amazon.com/General-Theory-Love-Thomas-Lewis/dp/0...
Attachment Disturbances in Adults: Treatment for Comprehensive Repair [academic/professional text] https://www.amazon.com/Attachment-Disturbances-Adults-Treatm...
2) It's harder to make friends as you get older. Most friendships are built on an ongoing shared experience that is challenging, such as being in school together. Most of my adult-onset friendships are a result of having worked in small startup companies that were struggling to survive. Casual meetings of potential friends are much less likely to generate the energy and commitment for developing a friendship. If you're interested in the research on this, look into the work of Robin Dunbar, e.g.,
Friends: Understanding the Power of our Most Important Relationships https://www.amazon.com/Friends-Robin-Dunbar/dp/1408711737/
2. You may actually be full of sh.t (nobody's perfect). Only life and rarely a very close true friend can give you proper hints (or lessons which are often quite expensive, but that is what builds your character and makes you you in the end).
Some don't like the framing, but for me it helps me realize so many things, especially that we are all going through so many conflicts at the same time and we always will be.
Maybe it's a combination of the person feeling bored and feeling a bit scared of how forward you are, or scared of getting too close. Or it could be they're super busy with work, that they are thinking of you but are afraid to ask and be rejected, they have a medical issue, or a family member does and they're treading water to stay afloat, etc.
Most likely, a combination of so many conflicting contexts and feelings going on with them and also with you.
I don't know if we can fix all the things, as new conflicts will arise, and yet for me, trying to be aware of those conflicts helps me give myself and the other person more grace.
It’s less intimidating when you’re first getting to know someone if there’s a group, and then you’ll have something memorable in common in the future when you meet 1 on 1.
The biggest cause of loneliness today is loss of the third-place [0] in modern communities. Suburbia is soulless and isolating because there are few third places where people can socialize and meet others.
Rather than try to change how that person responds to you, you can either work on being ok with how little they initiate, or you can put effort into other (or finding new) relationships where people will initiate more.
People also go through busy and less busy times - so maybe try again with this person in 6 months and see if things are different.
There are so many different kinds of people (with so many different preferences), that I really think your time is better spent finding new people that you click more with, rather than trying to change yourself.
People are busy and don’t think about others most of the time. Most live in their own world.
If they get an invite, they’ll often be happy to mix things up and meet. Then most go back to their normal routine.
Give off relaxed and breezy vibes. It’s easy to sense when someone is trying too hard. Most don’t want an another obligation in life, so they don’t want another thing they need to be bothered by. However, a friend that is casual works out better.
Amount of time between hanging out has naturally gotten further apart. Allow yourself to be okay with this aspect.
Don’t take things personally. Be your natural and genuine self.
Good luck!
Anecdotally, I desire to hang out with people who share my interests and want to do similar activities that we both enjoy.
I’m a few years removed from college now, and it’s highlighted to me just how special living closely with people of similar age and interest does for one’s social life. Once you spread out, gain dependents, work, etc… it’s much more of an effort to stay in touch.
Just because someone doesn’t reciprocate your effort to connect doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t want to hang out with you.
Many people don't think twice about friendships (of any kind). It's them.
You are not their top of the list attraction (of any kind). It's you.
But then too, when you are lucky enough to find someone who really clicks with you, do ask them to critique your approach. Sadly in many cultures including the US, this is just "not done". Not considered appropriate. Even when you ask. That's so sad. No wonder we are lonely.
Be charismatic. (Not really in your control. But sometimes can be blundered into by being interesting based on having a certain expertise or knowledge-base.)
Be useful, then. (Can be achieved by being rich, or offering a service of some kind.)
If people feel safe or listened to or powerful or attractive when they are around you, they will flock in your direction. But be careful what you wish for.
And you’re incredibly interesting to someone else.
The goal is to find mutually interesting matches. And most people won’t be a match. It’s a numbers game.
I've noticed sometimes in certain relationships it settles into one person usually doing the initiating. every relationship is different. I think it's something to do with how our personalities mesh together
> Maybe most people like to stay in a perpetual state of acquaintance-ness?
Do you actually like them? Are they interesting to talk to?
Treating relationsips non-transactionally, helped me. Sure, sometimes I might feel a bit disappointed. That's a hazard of para-social thinking. Relationships have asymmetries. Hence the friendship paradox: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship_paradox
Maybe I’m a boring person?
Well half of all people are more boring than average...But mostly adult lives are complex. You probably don't rate as highly as someone's child, partner, or established social circle. These are long term relationships. Good luck.
* Get out on the water or underwater (if you dive)
* Find events to go to in your area (pick anything, doesn't matter, if it's going on try and go do it and try and do it with people)
To whom in your life do you feel most grateful?
What, if anything, is too serious to be joked about?
If you had the power to change one thing about the world, what would it be?
You don't "fix" it, you just fine-tune your behavior models.
Make of yourself something that people need and/or want (which is often something they'll eventually outright signal that they're missing). Don't make yourself dependable, but desirable.
Empathy and compassion are fickle resources because if you are superficial about expressing them, people will notice.
Sound advice and expertise are nice but limited in scope and frequency, and require some reputation and trust building.
In most informal contexts most people are prone to oversharing to a keen ear. So become an active listener, pretend to be genuinely interested (but not necessarily empathic) about people's experiences and throw in something relatable to them on the way, pretend to be more stupid than them, grease their egos while playing an innocent contrarian, and eventually they'll think you're a great person and invite you to their secret boring, pretentious and utterly tasteless wine drinking clubs. If that's what you want then you win.
It’s hard but end of the day I realized nobody really gives a shit they’re busy trying to be comfortable with themselves lol.
Trying to make convo circumstances and process perfect cannot solve mental issues or deeply ingrained habbits. Not quickly anyway, perhaps not at all. But for damn sure, it's thinking in the right direction!
I am currently wanting to apply this "even" to friendships but run into the issue that people "don't have time".
If you're someone who actually likes to go out and do things, introverts make terrible friends. The extreme extroverts I know are always doing things together, because they want to.
In my life I eventually realized that I'm a thoughtful and sensitive person in a world that generally doesn't think of others. I'm the one who reaches out first more often because I'm genuinely interested in and curious about my friends.
I think the key in this situation is to recognize when the interest isn't reciprocated. If someone consistently disrespects you or pays no attention to you then you're barking up the wrong tree and need to move on.
One big impediment to maintaining friendships is staring at a screen all day, and for a techie, staring at a screen all day is often caused by some hyper perfectionistic personal project.
Saying things like "Yeah, this custom distro is cool but it's just not worth the time, I'm gonna do this the big standard way like everyone else" improved my life AND my tech projects by a lot.
Not about comparison - but rather about my own tendencies. Accept things about myself I am ashamed of, whether I work on them or not.
Understand where I came from, how I got here. What I’m trying to do.
There are quite a non-trivial number of people who reach out to me (mostly old friends/coworkers), with whom I wouldn’t want to engage. There are multiple reasons, but it fundamentally always boils down to any social interaction with them being an opportunity for them to compare themselves with me, and making me feel inferior, by explicit comments or by some sort of virtue signaling. I’m not even sure they realize it, and it’s also possible it’s just in my head. Regardless, that’s how I feel.
I am not a complete sociopath, so just declaring upfront that I do not desire to meet with them is bad taste in my morals, so I simply ruthlessly decline every single invitation, until they get the point and stop reaching out. It’s puzzling to me how sometimes a person might reach out for YEARS before giving up (on a perhaps 2-3 month basis for 2-3 years), asking for a call or to meet up, and me every time shutting them down with “I’m busy”, “I’m traveling”, etc.
Make no mistake, if I were to “cave in” and meet them up, it would immediately be an opportunity for them to flaunt their financial/marital/career/athletic success in front of me, by comparing themselves to me, so no, no pity. Example: a “friend” who made $20M from an extremely lucky IPO had the nerve to tell me “why don’t you just pick a good company that’s going to IPO soon and make a lot of money like me? A couple years and then you’re done, it’s easy”. No shit lol. This is a person who insisted for YEARS to meet up, after I started the process of declining any invitation. Fortunately he seems to have moved on now, but never say never.