HACKER Q&A
📣 b20000

Does it still matter to be in the Bay Area?


A while ago lots of people moved out. Due to the current AI fad people came back (?). Does it still matter to be there and in what circumstances?


  👤 someguy101010 Accepted Answer ✓
I moved here ~2 years ago to join an early stage startup and while its "not what is used to be"[1] I have personally benefited a lot from being exposed to the business and engineering culture here. I'm starting my own company now and have access to much more networking events and people who "get it" than I think I could have access to if I lived anywhere else. I haven't though so its hard to say.

There is an incredible amount of tacit knowledge in this city that is hard to really internalize until you are actually here and living through it. I think programs like https://www.siltahouse.com/home take a great advantage of these things.

There's a lot of counter intuitive things about early stage that you can't really convey in a blog post, or you may not even believe until you see it yourself up close from people. The open minded attitudes and culture around risk is something that you can really internalize when you are around other people who give you the correct social proof.

Is this all things you can get other places? Sure! It may not matter as much as it did 10 years ago, but you will have a hard time not getting a positive experience out of living, working, or building in the Bay Area.

[1] people have said this since the beginning of time about everything anyways


👤 lolinder
Possibly unpopular opinion: there was always plenty of room for individuals to have a fulfilling tech career outside of the Bay Area, and those opportunities have if anything grown in recent years. Bay Area folks always talk like all the opportunities are concentrated there but that's never really been true and will just be less and less true as VC money dries up.

I'm sure some of it depends on what you're trying to accomplish in life, but since you didn't specify I'll answer for myself (someone who just wants to do work I enjoy for a really solid upper-middle-class paycheck and retire early)—no, you don't need to be in the Bay Area.

EDIT: To give some concrete numbers, San Jose and San Francisco represented ~180k of the nation's ~1650k software developers in 2023 [0]. That's ~10% of all US-based software developers and ~0.6% of all software developers in the world [1].

[0] https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes151252.htm

[1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-many-software-developers-...


👤 paxys
Matter for what?

Founding a tech startup and getting VC funding? Working at a FAANG or tech unicorn? Maxing your compensation? Easily job hopping? Being part of large social or professional networks centered around tech? Working on the bleeding edge of the industry? Yes to all of these.

Working a software engineering job that will pay significantly better than the median salary in the area and let you have a good standard of living and a good overall life? No, if you have adequate skill you can achieve that anywhere in the world.


👤 alsetmusic
I would continue living in the Bay Area even if I changed my career. I love the vibe and culture. Oakland First Friday is a fun street fair. The multiple rode gardens in about every city are fantastic. I lived an eight minute walk from the Oakland garden during the pan and I was there every day. SF is one of a small number of cities that almost every musical act will play when they tour. And there are lots of art galleries. If the tech scene is the only draw for you, there are still a lot of reasons it’s a great area. And there are so many beautiful trails to hike that are just a short drive away.

If you wanna buy a house with a yard and the above doesn’t draw you, it’s probably not for you.

Edit: and fresh produce at the farmers markets!


👤 spicyusername
I've been in tech for almost 15 years and never lived in the bay. My pay puts me in the top ~1% of U.S. compensation. My city is around 1.5 million metro population.

I've worked for prestigious, recognizable, tech companies and local no-name companies.

As long as you're in a metro area with at least a million or two people, there'll be enough software engineering and data center business to go around.

Most of my teams over the last few years have all been geo-distributed, anyways, so its much less common for everyone to even be in the same place, anyways, even if you live in the bay area.


👤 ljlolel
Paul Graham’s advice: it still matters to be in Bay Area as a founder because you are the average of your 5 closest friends. And in Bay Area your 5 closest founder friends are much more likely to be successful (possibly very successful) and that happening much less in any other city.

👤 MilnerRoute
Just my random opinion... It probably matters more if you're looking for venture capital, or if you want to work for one of the top (and Bay Area-based) companies in the field. Although a lot of major AI companies (including OpenAI) are in the Bay Area.

In general I think it's limiting if you confine your job search to one area. (After all, your odds double if you try two different locations.) And there are other large tech cities -- Seattle, New York, etc.

There is also the possibility of a telecommuting position -- though more of those tend to be "hydrid" than 100% remote. Still, more of those than there were five years ago.


👤 jitl
Matter for what? You can find super interesting communities of all different kinds of people and interests in cities all around the world. I think the communities in Bay Area lean more tech, more intentional living, more left; certainly if you want to hang out with some of the best people doing ai, you will find a bunch of those people there.

New York is an amazing spot because there’s just so much more density and diversity that there’s a bazillion more niche communities doing all sorts of stuff, including tech scenes, tech-art stuff, whatever you want.

You need to decide what you’re looking for, and if you can find it wherever you already are.


👤 alexpotato
If you work on the tech side of finance (banking or hedge funds) then you would be much better off in being:

- NYC (still the hub) - Chicago (although that's declining in my opinion) - South Carolina (lots of banking tech jobs there) - Austin, TX (similar to SC above) - Miami (crypto friendly and a large hedge fund just moved its HQ there)


👤 metadat
It can matter for future job prospects. You being at least somewhat physically available to make in-person appearances at least sometimes without it being a big deal is appealing to many employers.

👤 Aurornis
It’s not a binary factor, but being in a tier-1 city makes it substantially easier to get good jobs.

It doesn’t mean you have to move to the Bay Area, nor does it mean you can’t find a great job outside of a tier 1 city (Seattle, NYC, etc). However, the amount of opportunity is drastically different.


👤 aprdm
Great question, seems a bit difficult to gather a non-biased (if that exists) opinion online - be it on reddit or hackernews.

I am debating moving from another country to it to be closer to executives on my company (L1 possibly green card), but still unsure, I make very good money where I am and would make very good money in Bay Area. But my life is already pretty settled on a big tech company..

From reading online, doesn't look like the best place to raise a family, and costs are obscene even for high paid employees. Traffic also feels like would be a big negative impact on my life if I moved.


👤 k310
I lived for 30 years in the Bay Area. Lots of job and consulting opportunities. Fabulous people. Tons of culture and funky places. I grew lots of roses and a few veggies even in my small lots. Way multicultural. My daughter learned hula, and is revisiting that as a grownup. Attend universities or work at one. I did, and met Nobel Prize winners. Plenty to see. The ocean is gorgeous and close by.

Moved away, and now deer eat everything nonmetallic, 110 degree summers and at times, a couple of feet of snow. 12 miles to downtown and 50 miles to an Indian or Thai restaurant, Whole Foods, and the VA medical facility.

Would love to move back and reinvent the enshittified web. Will gladly leave the snow shovel, chainsaws and bear spray behind.


👤 alexecldn
I move from London to the Bay Area 5 years ago, specially to get immersed in the “Silicon Valley” culture.

The differences seemed small initially, but they add up. I find people are bolder - less risk adverse. The energy is about 4x London, the scale 10x (the USA market is 10x more valuable vs the UK: 5x the population worth 2x the dollars). Genuine success is important, you cannot arse about pretending to work (like MANY Brits do).

It was a move to a much worse work-life balance for me.

The downsides are significant, lack of quality art and culture. You earn 2x or 3x but everything from cheese to housing is 2x to 3x more expensive. The Bay Area is geographically isolated, no more weekend tries to Paris or Berlin. You’ve got Hawaii and LA (a 8h drive to a city uglier, more polluted and dirty than Delhi). Skiing is Tahoe at $160/day, whereas London gives you access to dozen of much better resorts at a fraction of the price. Tahoe was especially disappointing.

I drove through SF last week and there was only one billboard that wasn’t about a GenAI company selling a CRM system.


👤 giantg2
As an outsider, it seems there are many cities with a variety of opportunities. Maybe even some remote opportunities too. Even cities with terrible tech markets (Philly) have some opportunities. It sounds like other areas of CA, WA, NY, VA, and TX have great opportunities, with several other states having some decent ones.

👤 cactusfrog
I’m here and grew up here but I don’t really have friends or belong to a startup ecosystem. I just do my job and then go home. Idk how to take advantage of the area.

👤 bobbytang
Bay Are is better for money, progression, network, capital, and all things related to big tech and startups.

It also gets boring. Everything is now way more expensive. Disposable income gets consumed way faster now than before. There's not much diversity compared to other metropolitan areas that American expats have moved to.

Make filthy money there first, then live the life you want elsewhere.


👤 iancmceachern
In my opinion, in my career and personal experience, yes.

👤 bevekspldnw
If you want to work for a big aimless Megacorp, or one of their pets (Anthropic, OpenAi, etc), sure come to Silicon Valley. Make damn sure you get a nice cut of equity on top of the salary.

Otherwise, the cost of living is ample reason to stay away.


👤 moomoo11
Yes. You want to be around smart people. Leaving the Bay Area makes me feel like I’m losing brain cells.

👤 ShamelessC
Nope! Nothing matters anymore! Certainly not the Bay Area.

👤 _akhe
As for SF: Most of the OGs left a while ago, it's basically like a post-Palo Alto now, a lot of AI startups, and a mecca for recent grads to keep feeling like they're still in college except substitute AI startup for school. They even look a lot like students, plus the typical SF activities: Biking The Wiggle, people running in the Panhandle, sunny days at Dolores, weekends in Napa.

On the entrepreneurial side, it's like these WeWork single-founder startups from the Great Lakes region (Michigan, Canada, NY) who are doing everything from crypto bro stuff to trying to build tech for acquire-hire, flying through engineers and designers to do so. On the enterprise side it's mostly companies servicing all these: Rippling, WeWork, Vercel, cloud providers, payment providers, Salesforce.

The entire Bay Area is getting calmer and more neighborhood-like: The peninsula and East Bay seem nicer than ever. A lot of SF people moved to Berkeley and Santa Cruz, and towns like Redwood City are really shaping up into lovely suburbs. Where I live (Upper Haight, SF) the old school skateboard/pizza/weed/fashion vibe is coming back, the Dead Heads are not a very strong influence anymore but there are some, kinda feels like a little 90s pocket here, but we lost a lot of live music and a lot of culture. The whole city seems to have lost a lot of music, restaurants, and entertainment - it's overall pretty boring right now. There's more spontaneous live music in Santa Cruz or peninsula. There's a pretty strong homeowner and gardening vibe in a lot of neighborhoods of SF, the Slow Streets thing is making it feel more suburby in areas. Bernal is stuck up beyond belief, just like before but multiply it, it's gotten more sophisticated, same homeowners up there as before, Good Life still there, remodeled but the same basically. Noe is strange, the babies are no longer babies but now giant 10 year olds, feels like an urban kid-ran neighborhood over there - strong cul-de-sac family vibes. More surfing and skimboarding at beaches than I remember from 10+ years ago, more action sports in general - skateparks have improved. Bike lanes and roads have improved, overall crime is lower and things are cleaner all over the Bay Area except for the classic bad spots of East Bay.

I've lived here for most of my life so it's hard to compare it to other places, I would say it's maturing and improving and I expect the West Coast in general to fill out like the East Coast over the next 100 years, so I take that into consideration with the overall growth trend. It's still very much a place of building and construction and growth. Though as I say this I've seen more "For Rent" and "For Sale" signs on buildings than ever before within SF - I think the surrounding areas are growing more than the city, the city is overall somewhat boring and quiet but I love it.


👤 taitems
Did it ever really matter?

👤 kmesiab
I would encourage you all to never again consider moving to the bay area.

👤 danjl
Speaking for those of us who were born and raised here, please don't come. We have enough. Nobody who has been here for any reasonable period actually left.