How to Overcome the Trough of Sorrow?

Life is just hard. I don't know how folks managed 50 years ago, 100 years, 500+ years, it was just our ability to keep pushing through the mud, the cold nights, the loneliness, sometimes letting a glimpse of a beautiful day or sparkling night be enough to keep going.

Someone told me that life and work and relationships are sometimes just pushing everything you have in a giant deep dark hole in the ground, and every now and then, something pops back out. If you're lucky, it makes it all worth it. The only way to know is to keep trying. Maybe you'll give up on all your hard work and be even more depressed, but eventually get a job that doesn't even seem good, but then the days get better and better and one night you feel pretty darn good before bed and your realize all that behind you was just part of the journey, and it's ok. Let yourself feel sad, doubt, fear, get it out, behind you, make room for the good. You will discover it, I'm sure of it. If it's really hard to keep going, then you're on the right path. Life just is not easy! Gl

If you have a strong enough “Why”, then you can tolerate any “How”.

Wanting to be your own boss, or having the ability to freely travel the world are both a great “Why” to create the activation energy to take the risk and start. But in my experience, it’s rarely a strong enough motivator to help someone persist through 4+ years without any meaningful wins.

The strongest "Why" usually involves serving something other than yourself. For some founders I’ve invested in, it’s a specific group of people (e.g. patients with a particular disease), or protecting something specific about the natural environment. Those people I have seen tolerate extreme suffering - to the point that I have had to physically bite my tongue in conversations where I wanted to tell them to stop and give up (but I never did - better a cut tongue than adding my opinion/ego to their burden). Some of those founders ultimately failed, others found enough wins and are still going (and suffering), a tiny number experienced wild success.

So if you want to persist, then an interesting question is "Who" or "What" are you serving besides yourself?

A separate but related question is how long can your personal cash flow sustain this?

Good luck!

Why do you want so hard to start a business? Why not spend your precious time, money and effort on something else? If what motivates you is willingness to change the world - you can do so by working for a non-profit organization. If you want to earn money - you can be a regular employee.

> Where do you find the strength to keep going? What keeps you going and energizes you?

It is NOT work. I try to work as little as possible. Being a programmer, it is not so hard to earn a good living while working part-time. I'm an urban activist and a guerilla gardener. I spend a lot of time talking to neighbors in our community garden I started :) I also signed up for a literature and creative writing course at the university (in Poland studying is free, I know that's not the case in the US).

Work doesn't have to be the most important thing in your life.

This might sound harsh, but:

Maybe the wise choice is to change the path? That feeling of resignation, while a bitter pill to swallow, might be a good thing in the end. I used to beat myself over for not working hard and dedicating myself to my ideas, yet a few years down the line it became obvious the startups I wanted to build would have been made obsolete by other tech. I've dodged a few wasted years, a burnout or straight-up insanity right there. Trust your gut.

Why do something you are not enjoying? Life is short, it might end faster than you think. The people close to you can also disappear sooner than you think. Try to make the most of it. It's not all about making it big and being successful/rich.

After 4 years of $0, I'm not sure it's a matter of finding the strength to keep going. Something in your target market doesn't seem to be working out.

If you can, find experienced friends that are willing to tell you the ugly truth about your business effort. Talk more to your potential customers. Did you just happen to pick the wrong market?

It sounds like you spent 4 years building a product before you even knew if anyone would use it. That's a terrible idea, but a good learning experience.

I wouldn't give up (perhaps you need to give up on your current product though).

What you need to do is evaluate _why_ the product isn't selling. Who's the ideal customer? Can you get on a call with some of them and put it in their hands and get actual feedback? Figure out if you need to abandon the product or not. Stop building. Focus entirely on marketing and sales.

Next time, don't go so deep on the building phase until you have people handing you money.

For reference, I recently came up with a new product idea. I did some searching to figure out if any competition exists and I found none. That's horrifying. I almost immediately gave up the idea entirely on the spot.

However, I randomly met someone that was an ideal customer (while dropping my kids off at school) and they immediately said they would pay $200/month for that and asked when they could try it. Not only that, they said they knew 2-3 other people that would as well. I ended up meeting two other ideal customers that said the same thing and one even asked if they could invest in it.

I'm still not entirely sure-- but those are strong signals that people will put up money for it, but it doesn't mean they will. I am still nervous but decided to go ahead and build an mvp and see if the idea has legs.

What kind of signals are your ideal customers giving you?

I spent four years trying to get my startup to revenue. I created something that I thought would be useful for its niche audience, but nobody wanted it in the end.

I was so burned-out from the experience that I had to stop for my own mental health. I got a normal job three years ago.

Since putting the startup on indefinite hold, I've been able to learn new sports, buy a home, and generally enjoy my life without the constant feeling that I had to be working more and spending less. My life got dramatically better.

So while I would have preferred that the startup succeeded, walking away after four years was far better than continuing down that path. And because the technology I had built was really impressive, it only took a couple months for me to get a job paying more than I ever had before.

Diversify and find some reasonable balance:

1. XX% of life is dedicated to chasing your startup ideas

2. YY% of life is dedicated to earning bread and butter (salary work, contracts, not necessary stable and continuous)

3. ZZ% of life is dedicated to what you enjoy: hobbies, time with family, travels

You can try to combine (1) and (3), aka try to build life style business in the area you have passion.

About 7 years ago now I'd say I had an identity crisis. Startup life is rough whether you're working for someone or on your own. I've done both. I wanted to find work life balance but that stressed me out more.

Ultimately, Jiro Dreams of Sushi kinda re-ignited that building passion for me. I read some books that made me realize I give to many F*s about things that don't matter. I have my day job and am doing things I'm proud of on the side and oh-ya I have a family and work life balance now some how.

I guess looking back, it was about finding the right mix of what I want to spend my time on day-in-day-out, and matching it with the right people and work around me. It was about seeking out and trying different things until I found the "happy path" for me.

I want to build cool stuff people use, but I hate feeling like I'm in free fall. I'll end up choosing the 30% risky path these days, and maybe that doesn't make a billion dollar startup but I don't really care. Or maybe it will because I'm just building stuff I want shrug

After making your prototypes, did you ever go up to a potential customer and get their opinion? The stuff you mentioned in the post doesn't sound like you had any feedback/validation

if no-one wants what you have produced, which seems to be the case here, produce something else. or find yourself a full-time job doing something that you enjoy. i don't see any other alternatives.

Work to live, don't live to work. Freely pursue, build and expand what _you_ value. This will make you happy. When you are happy, this will attract people who want what you have. Invest in yourself, next sell this value you have to those people. Everything you ever did was not in vain because it created who you are today. Invest in yourself - not material wealth or value for others - above all else. Don't undertake affairs that don't make you happy.

I don't know the answer. But I just want to say that you're not alone. One of the things that motivates me to study ML is I want to help create a world where everyone can be free to pursue their passions, to be... the most human they can be. (I also really love studying mathematics and intelligence, so it aligns well) There are so many things that frustrate me about the area I work in, but I think these things will always exist. I think it is best to just focus on your passion and not others. But it is also difficult to focus on your passions when you have to worry about living. I don't want to say that the answer is to go back and get a traditional job. It may be the answer due to environmental constraints, but I hope not.

So the little advice I have is to remember what made you passionate in the first place. Don't think about others and how you compare, think about yourself. I think the motivation dies when you lose that passion or that passion gets tainted. If it means taking other work, then do that. If it doesn't, then that's great! But no matter what, make sure there is something in your life that you can find passion and joy in doing. If you don't have this thing, all other things fall apart.

Hard work and struggle doesn't take anybody closer to success, it never has. It is one of the most common false beliefs and even false gods.

Do you think a panther struggles to fell its prey? No, it is a pleasure for the panther, it's a game.

Your approach is wrong. You shouldn't keep going with your failed pet project, you should abandon it and start something else. Be happy that you've only earned $200. Imagine if you were in the situation that you were earning more but still not as much as you should? Then it would be much harder to let go.

If you're looking for a project, something to turn into your own business, you will have to try several different things. And do not invest too much in them before you get returns. Sometimes you have a great offer, but nobody wants to talk to you. Why? Because people are idiots a lot of the time. There's nothing you can do about that.

Start some new projects, see what sparks an interest among others, and investing more of your time and effort when you see that you are getting returns. Abandon the projects without returns.

I make a living selling a service to the general public, that I personally don't consider a huge value add. But people are very eager to buy it, so why shouldn't I sell it?

I had another service I tried to sell that would have been an enormous value add for business clients. Like an all pros and no cons service, and I could easily demonstrate to them how they could save many thousands with the service per month while at the same time making their lives easier. Guess what? Nobody even wanted to talk to me. Sometimes there's a brick wall for no logical reason.

So try different approaches and follow the flow.

An older monk and a novice were traveling together. At one point, they came to a river with a strong current. As the monks were preparing to cross the river, they saw a very young and beautiful woman also attempting to cross. The woman asked if they could help her cross to the other side.

The two monks glanced at one another because they had taken vows not to touch a woman.

Then, without a word, the older monk picked up the woman, carried her across the river and placed her gently on the other side and carried on his journey.

The novice couldn’t believe what had just happened. After rejoining his companion, he was speechless, and an hour passed without a word between them.

Two more hours passed, then three, finally the novice could contain himself any longer, and blurted out “As monks, we are not permitted to touch a woman, how could you then carry that woman on your shoulders?”

The older monk looked at him and replied, “Brother, I set her down on the other side of the river a while ago, why are you still carrying her?”

Hope it doesn't look patronizing and helps.

Don't get married to a project. If you don't get traction you should do something else. Business is ultimately about serving customers not about building the thing you want to build. If the customers won't buy it then its not fit for purpose. The exact time you should spend before pivoting isn't hard and fast but 4 years is well into the "its not working out" territory.

Life is both short and unpredictable so wasting years without a return is nor a merit neither a skill issue, it's worse - it's bad strategy.

I am in the same boat, but for me it has been 10 years working on it and I stopped mostly doing anything else a few years ago and focusing 100% on this. I know should do something as not even competitors are closing 10m$+ investment rounds with incredibly low quality products compared to mine. I just don't live in san francisco and i don't know investors. Anyway: I am going to keep pushing, I guess my belief in the product and in myself is what keeps me going. After 10 years I still jump out of bed in the middle of the night to fix something or write a new feature i've been mulling. That's more important than money to me, but money we can unfortunately not go without in this life.

I wrote a blog post* about this from a more "marketing" point of view. I can really feel like an uphill battle but I think the trick is to learn to love the journey more than the end goal.

Do things that don't scale so you don't invest too much money in it, find ways of doing it cheap. Balance your time working on startup projects as a hobby with another fulltime job and family life. Be ok if it doesn't go anywhere. Change ideas if the one you're working on does not pan out. Be happy you work on something you love working on - even if it is a slow process.

And in the end, one of your ideas will probably take off!

*briefmix.com/startup/trough-of-sorrow

Just sharing this as a different point of view that might help you get out of the rut, it's not meant to discourage you...

Hollywood, social media are all glorifying the hustle culture, keeping us all delusional that if you just keep working hard, in the end it will all be right. "Don't ever give up because you only lose if you give up".

That's all fine and dandy and makes for great movies, and YouTube videos, but in reality, some people should just give up, or at least instead of working longer and harder, they should really think about why they keep failing.

Maybe you need to touch some grass, find a hobby, be less obsessed with whatever it is you try building. Maybe you aren't listening to your customers, or you're terrible at sales, marketing, product, design, software development or all of the above.

Sometimes, the best decision is to give up and move on to new things in life, and do what you enjoy instead of hoping you'll be Mark Zuckerberg.

(based on personal experience: for so long I wanted to be a physicist because I didn't want to "give up", not realizing that I can just "write off" the university years in my mind, and move on with my life. The moment I did that, I felt free, doubled down on software development that I actually enjoy and I'm good at, giving up was the best decision in my life and I wish I did that sooner)

I became free by working for salary (or daily rate, when contracting), saving most of my paycheck, and retiring on the savings. It's the easiest, most fool-proof way.

I have the opposite problem, but I hope sharing it helps you reflect on your future paths. I hope you don't dwell on the past - it was a learning period, and all that matters is tomorrow. For me, I only start projects that I have a clear vision of how they will end. My most successful projects were driven by a strong sense of what I wanted to achieve. I faced some challenges, but I quickly made a working prototype. I hate wasting time so much that I avoid taking on complex projects, which I'm sure limits my potential.

Why are you starting a business? Starting a business is for people who want to work very hard for little to no money, on the off chance it becomes successful and self sustaining and finally they can take some time off. You’ve already seen this for yourself.

What you really should strive for is a remote job that lets you work from anywhere and pays you well, ideally contributing to something fulfilling in life.

Entrepreneurship culture these days is toxic and the opposite of the “ideal” life.

>I want to finally live this life

I'm not sure your situation but assuming you are a programmer in a high wage country you can have quite a lot of fun going off packing SE Asia and similar and living by beaches, jungles for not much money for a few months. Then you'll probably get an idea for a plan B when bored with the beaches.

Watch a series called American Dynasty. Many of the most successful people in history because so, in part, because a stroke of luck. They had many setbacks before they caught their break, but it was ultimately luck that allowed their venture to take flight. Had they given up sooner we likely would have never known who they were.

It might sound trite but... It's all about the journey. If you're not enjoying the journey, try a different route.

I've been working on my "start-up" for over 10 years now and it's great fun! I'm sure there are loads of things that we could have done differently but I suspect that would have been less fun.

I'm currently working on my own project almost full-time, and what keeps me going is that I really want that product to exist and I see others might like it as well, even though it barely breaks even with ads/revenue ratio.

Having a stable, high-paying job is the 2nd best thing to getting incredibly lucky (being born into a trust fund, or stroke of luck to be part of a unicorn company).

Being your own boss is overrated (when it comes to earning money specifically).

Hopefully you learned a lot or made a product/code you personally find useful/reusable.

For me personally, any side project I make scratches an itch I have so at the end of the day, if it flops, I'll still use it.

Ease up, build toys instead. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27812192

I was deep in debt, liver was failing (swelling), got set up at work by a psycho who wanted a promotion, working thirteen to eighteen hours a day in abusive environment, had PTSD with night terrors, and other stuff was going on.

The sheer number of improbable events almost seemed like the universe itself was working against me. I felt a realization that I was paying for the evil choices I made. Asking God, if He’s real, for a sign about that led to me experiencing an actual miracle that turned my beliefs on their head. I professed Jesus Christ and everything changed. My PTSD and night terrors were cured, too.

The new foundation helped. Now, I know God made us to love Him first in a relationship, reflect His character, and love each other as ourselves. Our own evils toward God and each other incur His wrath. The very evils in the Bible that wrecked countries are what happen today. Yet, I know God loved us enough to take flesh as Jesus Christ, set a perfect example, die for our sins so we can be forgiven, and dwells in us. He has an eternal future of love, joy, and peace for all who follow Him. I put more on GetHisWord.com with proof.

With that foundation, I can answer your question. Those who truly believe in Christ receive God’s Spirit who grants an inner peace and joy that’s always there. We also know Rom. 8:28 says He works all things for our good. Our suffering builds character. Every good act toward God and others is rewarded later but often blessed now, too. We can also give people the Gospel, the gift we’re given, in our communities, work, etc. Then, they’re saved from wrath, receive God’s peace, and become instruments of His will.

Last year was one of my hardest. Yet, I definitely had more peace and purpose than many others with more material things. Also, God answers our prayers in specific, noticeable ways which are awesome to watch. He even healed one person’s kid we prayed for. I’m so grateful for this new life.

Not sure of the specifics, but I can guarantee you are not listening to your customers enough. This is the make or break hurdle for most businesses.

You can still set this project down.

Even right now.

It does not seem to be providing any kind of satisfying outcome for you.

May be set it down.

And tell yourself you will consider revisiting it in 6 months or a year.

Running a company is hardly an answer if you want to be free and live life.

misery loves company. consider bringing on a business partner who knows product-market-fit, marketing and sales.

disclaimer: i have never (yet) tried to build a saas business.

> I have a question for the community? Where do you find the strength to keep going? What keeps you going and energizes you? I'm tired of trying, the work seems endless.

The first thing I try to remember (and this is really hard, during those times it feels like a blatant lie) is that things change and you get out of the rut.

Accepting the mental storms, knowing they will pass, and having faith that somehow, somewhere in that fog there's something gestating, something moving, that will take shape only after the fog clears, that's helpful.

And when I'm not in that storm, knowing that it will come eventually, and welcoming it instead of constantly wishing it away, I try to prepare the ground for my future depressed-self, to make his life easier.

I want to finally live this life.

should read as:

I live this life.

IMO. All the best.

Being your own boss and seeing the beauty of the world are both extremely modern tropes, I'm not saying they're bad in and of themselves but they certainly aren't the be-all and end-all. Lots of tech people become miserable and insufferable trying to follow that dream