What's the best car without undesirable features?
I've been increasingly dismayed by the direction automakers have been going with vehicle design. They keep packing anti-features into their lineups that are hard to avoid. Do you know of any modern cars that don't have the following features?
1. Internet connectivity. If the car is connected, it's tracking me.
2. Remote anti-theft. If someone else can disable my car, I don't own it.
3. Subscription features. I want to own my car.
4. Touchscreens. They are a safety hazard.
There are some features I do want as well:
A: All wheel or 4wd. It snows where I live.
B: >= 30mpg or 250mi range if EV.
Used car with front wheel drive, preferably traction control, put Blizzaks on all four wheels and you’ll do OK in snow unless you insist on driving on unplowed roads.
There are a wide range of cars I would consider. Say a Toyota Camry or a Honda Accord or a Nissan Altima. Lately I have been partial to Buicks. An old Nissan Leaf with a shot battery can still go 70 miles which makes it a great second or third car in a household.
Cars from the 1996 model year forward are basically modern because they support the OBD II diagnostic standard and also the database for parts was rationalized around then. My son has a 1996 Buick and there is no problem getting parts, we considered up to about 2010 when we were looking.
See the thread about his car here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39035535
Recent used cars are crazy expensive now so it not so daunting to expect some repairs on an older car, be creative looking for one that fits your needs.
> 1. Internet connectivity. If the car is connected, it's tracking me.
Just because you can't connect to the Internet from your car doesn't mean that the car is not being tracked. Pretty much all cars built since 2016 or so have built-in infrastructure to collect various telemetry and send it to the manufacturer; prior to that there were dongles that were installed by various parties (automotive clubs, insurance companies, fleet owners...).
Most manufacturers also offer (or are working on offering) that data to third parties, although in most jurisdictions it requires the vehicle driver/owner to explicitly agree to it. In any case this whole area is still in its infancy, and we can expect to see more standardisation and wide use of that data in the coming years.
Source: worked in that industry until recently.
Well I an tell you right now you don't need 4wd, it snows like a MF where I live and if you have FWD with proper snow tires (which you should regardless), you will drive circles around 4WD/AWD cars with just all season tires on in winter.
Just buy a mid-2010's honda civic or a toyota camry.
You can get a 2023 or older wrangler, and replace the radio with anything else. Without the factory radio there's no internet connection. The 7" and 5" radios don't even have the modem to begin with (although apparently some 7" come with a 'telematics module' to give them internet). You can swap them out for any double din radio that fits (There's a kit or two) but the dashboard doesn't offer much space so it'd have to be a radio without a cd player.
Third or fourth gen Subaru Outback. I owned a fourth gen six cylinder and was happy with overall power and comfort. Had the most basic LED stereo. Nothing connected to the web. There are a ton of aftermarket mods out there and you can pick up good deals in PNW on Craigslist.
Basically, just buy a car from 2008-2012 in good condition with low miles.
Im driving 2018 Skoda Octavia (3rd generation). No internet, no anti-theft, no subs. It has touchscreen radio, but basically everything have a dedicated button still (whole clima control, including heating seats, front/rear glass etc). I touch it like twice a year. You can get it AWD and my avg is around 8-9 L/100km (I drive rather energetic and short trips, it can do 6 L/100km when I try).
4th generation is where the mess began. Colleague is driving one and I wouldn't want it for free. Stuff like simulating motor sound inside cabin (has a dedicated speaker/rumbler under windshield) can only be turned off trough 4 clicks on touchscreen (which is basically non-responsive for 2 minutes after starting), and have to be disabled everytime ignition starts. And so much more its pitiful.
Middle EU
Well I can't help with your other requirements but some Mercedes dealerships will remove the modem at a cost.
It's apparently a common request among people of certain professions.
Not sure if all models support it but I have spoken to someone who has had it done on a relatively new car (2020)
I'm done of the on star GM vehicles you can swap the OnStar for an aftermarket Bluetooth adapter if you like. It's been a few years, but had been looking at used trucks but wanted the Bluetooth support a few years back.
I will say definitely like having a backup camera, and use the steering controls while driving. The remote/Internet support is a bit scary.
Ironically, my challenger came with 3g wireless which is no longer in service, never bothered to get the upgrade.
I like my Kia Soul. It’s a sedan frame in the shape of an SUV. Mine is gasoline averaging 33mpg but there are electric versions.
I bought one of the last models with a 6 gear manual transmission. Shifting is super smooth. This is the best security money can buy.
There is no touch screen of any kind. The stock radio supports Bluetooth and MP3 via USB stick. I use a physically tiny 256gb USB stick currently containing 6000 tracks at 320kbps for a total size of around 60gb. I have not found the file number, file size, or total disk size limitations yet. File navigation, playback, and even options for radon track selection are great.
This car cost me 17k and they cost a bit more now. When I bought mine it was 5stars by JD Power for maintenance and true to that rating the car is years old and has been super cheap to keep in excellent condition provided regularly scheduled tune ups.
The only subscription associated with the vehicle is XM satellite service. The corresponding hardware is built into the vehicle. I have chosen to never pay that subscription.
My version of the car features no internet, network, or tracking/observation features of any kind. People have cell phones for that.
I highly recommend.
I owned a 2015 Jeep JKU. One of the last years before they started putting in larger touch screen consoles. Awesome vehicle, very customizable, low tech, and can be downgraded further if desired with relative ease. Replacement parts are extremely cheap, as are general repairs. The obvious drawback would be the environmental impact.
Suzuki Jimny is your answer. Look it up. A friend who lives in the Alps has had one for a long time. It's light (>32mpg), AWD, no BS feature. The only problem is that it's been difficult to find.
I'm very interested in this as well, but from a European pov, if anyone has any advice. My current car is a ~2011 (2nd model) Nissan Qashqai, which is wonderfully basic, manual buttons, no sat nav, no screen, basic stereo but a USB connector and BT.
I looked at a Peugeot 3008 at the time, the view in the driver's seat was like sitting in front of Blackpool illuminations [0].
[0] http://c.files.bbci.co.uk/12DD5/production/_103196277_1.jpg
20 yrs ago, when living in N America, I owned a 1987 Subaru GL wagon (so car was 16 yrs old at the time). Had low-range 4wd which would go through anything. Did 32 mpg highway I seem to recall. Very reliable. Japanese import, probably better built than later US models. I believe those cars last for ever. Mechanic had one with 700k on the clock. Still a few on ebay probably. Think it had a tape deck not even a CD player, that's the only thing. ;)
You won't find a new one. If you want a car made newer than the last 10 years you would need to look at models sold into fleets which would limit you to basically work trucks/vans and base model ford and GM sedans and subcompacts.
Last time I was car shopping base trim ford fiesta's were under $10k and came with a manual transmission, no power windows, no power locks, no cruise control and a standard double DIN radio. Made less than five years ago.
Has there been a widespread epidemic of anti-theft systems being used to impair the enjoyment by owners of their cars? Has it happened even once?
I think you're looking for a 20-year-old car. The last car I had that met all these criteria was a 1999 Mazda. But you will have a hard time finding a car that was marketed in America 20 years ago, that realistically gets > 30 MPG.
I believe Mazda is the mainstream brand with the most recent botnet-free cars. Definitely double-check but I'm pretty sure they only started adding internet connectivity in the 2019 model year. They also emphasize physical controls, but AWD is hard to find in this vintage.
Have you considered purchasing a newer car that you can modify?
I would assume that it would be trivial to just remove the antenna for the mobile data and once that's gone then 1, 2 and 3.
As for the touchscreens you always have buttons on the steering wheel so you will have to be content with that.
Check out Volkswagen that have been built between 2019 and 2021 (MY for Canada, US and EU might be a bit different). They usually come with Android Auto already (worth it for traffic and music - you can use OsmAnd or alternatives as well if you want zero tracking), BUT all the climate and radio and steering wheel controls are still physical buttons. And at least for Canada there are is no cellphone module in the car. There actually was for US market, but apparently since it supports max. 3G and the network has been shut down US wide end of 2022 they are truly offline as well now.
Which country or geo are you located in? That is a huge factor.
Are there kinds of vehicles that are completely off limits for you, eg because of difficulties parking, the environment you live it, etc?
Does it have to be new? If not, how many years back are you prepared to go?
If you are in North America, AWD/4wd puts you in a special zone: some light trucks and SUVs, a vanishingly small number of wagons, and Subaru.
If it has to be new, layering on your reqts 1-4 pushes you away from anything premium and towards lower end models. And (sadly) it also pushes you away from the very newest models. For example, if a truck is acceptable, a 2022 Ford Ranger instead of a F-150.
Adding to the list of 2010s-era Japanese cars, the 2nd gen Mazda3s have good reliability without the "Toyota tax." If you don't want to go with a 10yo car, current Toyotas will let you disable the 4G modem by pressing a series of buttons, and have physical HVAC controls. There's pretty much no getting away from touchscreens in current cars, though. The only alternative is Mazda with their selector knob, but I've found it more distracting when I rented one.
You might need to be a bit flexible on the "modern" requirement in order to get what you want/need.
Being familiar with fairly recent models(in the EU), if you sacrifice the AWD/4WD requirement, you can find some low-end minis/hatches that will do - if you would consider them. Likely the case in the US, too.
Going "up" comes with at least some of these undesirable(for you) features for all new cars I can think of.
AFAIK the only candidates that meet these requirements are older model cars.
I just bought a 2016 Volvo XC70. Only 40K miles. It checks all you boxes except the MPG (I think it's 28). It'll replace my 2004 XC70 - which only has 120K and could probably run for another 100K miles. But I was ready for an "upgrade" - including a backup camera and Bluetooth and USB port. I'll put on Blizzaks like I have on my current Volvo, and I'll be able to go anywhere in most any conditions.
Edit: I've a well-serviced 2004 XC70 for sale.
Personally I’ve found it overall more beneficial to get over the tin-foil-hat and desire-to-own mentality b/c I end up worrying less about things I can’t control and have more options for things to buy.
In 15 years, every car is going to have internet, touchscreens, and subscriptions. Good luck then.
Just buy a base model Subaru?
Pre-2000 Toyota anything. 4wd required, then get an older Rav4. I prefer 4Runners but you're not going to get 30mpg. If you can get by without 4wd, then get a Camry. Best car ever made in terms of reliability / maintainability and dead simple. Huge trunk space too.
Volvo 240 - if you can find one
arguably most reliable car ever; and without any modern features
Was in the same boat. 2018 Rav4 Trail ticks several of those boxes and has been good enough.
2013 Infiniti G37x.
No internet or cell built in.
It does have a touchscreen, but only used for built in gps.
Climate, radio, etc are all physical buttons.
No remote anti theft, but if someone has physical access, any car with an OBD II can be taken over to a limited extent.
You could also go with a ford ranger.
I have a 2014 (ICE) and a 2022 (Hybrid) Toyota Corolla, and I'm happy with both. I'm not really a car person, but they are good for people who aren't really car people. They both "just work".
2016 or earlier subaru outback
Toyota just released a hilux that's so bare bones it doesn't even come with seatbelts by default. Maybe find that locally and start adding only the features you want & see how much that costs?
VW passat entry level trim
Same question, but amending the requirements:
- touchscreen for camera and entertainment system is okay, for anything else - no-go
- not an EV
- no automatic breaking
- automatic gearbox
- SUV
- preferably on the higher end
Is there something satisfying the requirements from Mercedes or Volvo maybe?
4. Touchscreens - I'd say these are useful for running android auto or apple car play? - But this would fall into your tracking/internet criteria for Google at least.
> Touchscreens. They are a safety hazard.
That's true. But keep in mind everyone have them now. They can be the threat to you.
A car that does good on crash tests should also be very preferred now :)
As near as I can tell, and older used car. Most of the the ones made in the last decade or so are problematic, and new cars are simply unacceptable (to me).
So many weird “you don’t need AWD” takes. Like it’s a badge of honor to use an inferior tool for a job, as long as you get the job done? Bizarre.
Difficult to get rid of all those but I found my Tucson Essential boring and reliable.
Maybe a commercial vehicle. If small enough.
Otherwise buy or fix an older vehicle. Or go nuts doing an EV conversion.
Ford, get a low end V6 F150, 30mpg, 4x4, and you can get them as bone stock as you want
I have a 2012 Tacoma TRD OR. Other than only getting ~22mpg it fits the bill perfectly.
I think Suzuki Jimny still comes with a cd player instead of infotainment.
a citroen 2CV or a renault 4L !
just joking :) it's just that your comment on the snow made me think of several video where they make a joke of other car in the snow
Hyundai Kona model 2020 but it's not 4x4
Audi All-Road? Surprisingly versatile cars
can you buy a recent car and hack away the tracking features? e.g. disable gps / trackers, microphones, etc.
