HACKER Q&A
📣 neofrommatrix

Is it a bad time to take a sabbatical?


A tech employee (PM) at a startup with 2 years as a PM and about 10 years as a dev. Have been continuously working for those 12 years without a good break and I fear I might be on the verge of burnout. I’m looking for advice on the best approach to taking a sabbatical. The economy is what scares me. I don’t want a 4 month sabbatical to turn into a 12 month break. Is it a good time and how would you approach it? We have a dual income home and we will break even on a monthly basis if one of us takes a sabbatical. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


  👤 ytNumbers Accepted Answer ✓
A dangerous move, indeed! It's not the greatest employment market to be taking such a risk. Having said that, you have to weigh ALL of the risks for your situation. Since you fear you might be on the verge of burnout, my opinion is that you must take a break despite the risks. I say this because I once knew someone who suffered burnout, and it took them FOUR YEARS to finally be able to return to the work force. A four month self-imposed break looks a lot better than four years of being unable to work. You may struggle to find work if we wind up in a recession four months from now, but a four month break after so many years in the industry should not raise any big red flags with employers. You don't want to work for any manager who would label you as lazy for taking four months off after so many years.

👤 accrual
I would approach it by looking at the market now and seeing what's available. It doesn't guarantee there will be a great fit at the end of your sabbatical, but it should give numbers to guide by.

I feel like it's a bit like the stock market. You can't predict it, and timing the market may not be helpful. If you need a break - you need a break. If we imagine a graph, the damage from burnout will at some point exceed the damage of taking a break and not immediately finding a new job.

Might not be super helpful, but mental health quote I read recently was: if you're strong enough to leave, you're strong enough to find your way again afterwards.


👤 rrr_oh_man
I just took a 3 month break after working 12 years almost non stop.

Rebuilt my kitchen (manual work, accomplishments, yay!), visited some cool places, reconnected with old friends.

Didn’t think about work for _weeks_, at least.

Even though there’s nothing good in the horizon, yet, and, quite honestly, the money is drying up, I’m glad I took that break.

Would have been pretty miserable by now.

Burn out is not worth it.


👤 willcipriano
In the pro column: Capital is cracking the whip, that means less opportunities for rewards for the rank and file. This is a great time to take a break and save energy for a time where efforts are more likely to be rewarded.

👤 nikonyrh
Could you start with a 2 - 6 months paid sick leave, due to burnout? Or at least, maybe you don't need to quit the job, just take a long leave and return in the next 6 - 12 months?

👤 havnagiggle
File for an LLC (or whatever legal entity is available to you locally), take your break, and when you're ready to come back put whatever you want under it for what you are interested in doing after the sabbatical.

👤 tayo42
I'm 14months into my 6month break from work. Idk about pm, but as as an engineer it's been rough and stressful trying to get a job right now.

The first months were amazing, I felt great even started coding again for fun. The last six months, even without working have almost undone all that refreshed feeling and given me a refreshed hatered of corporate America.


👤 lusus_naturae
Can you save up enough so that if you don't find work for a year, you'll be fine?

👤 dangus
It sounds like you haven’t been using vacation time, or am I misunderstanding?

Don’t forget to just take a lot of regular vacation time, especially if your company is one of those “unlimited” shops. Until you get a nastygram from HR I would just take whatever time you want off and don’t worry about using too much of it. Typically as long as you don’t exceed about 2 or 3 weeks at a time you’re fine.

If your employer doesn’t give you at least 20 days plus holidays, shop around for employers.

If your employer has separate sick days, don’t forget to “randomly” use those in a realistic fashion.

I’m also generally in favor of a sabbatical. Don’t quit your job, asked for extended unpaid leave. I think they’d hold your position for you as long as your leave isn’t a huge amount of time, hiring a new employee takes a lot of money and time.


👤 renewiltord
My friends in the same position took a break for two years that ended a couple of weeks ago. They've got jobs here in San Francisco. I can't speak for anywhere else but here you'll be fine.

👤 theogravity
I don't think the startup is going to factor in that you worked 12 years without a break when evaluating your request.

I think it depends on the stage of the startup, and how much of a key employee you are to it. Can they afford to have you away for that long? Do they have a PTO accrual policy? Have you been making use of it? Do you have at least 6 months of savings for bills / rent should you not have a job? Also consider the expenditures you'll have while taking the sabbatical with half the household income.

A strategy I used to do was that I took unpaid PTO when I wanted time off to let the PTO accrue, then took all of it at once when it maxed out (when that happened, I was on PTO for a month and half) after finishing a major project that took a year to complete. The PTO would also increase in value as I got raises over time.

The company wised up and stopped letting people do unpaid PTO if you had PTO to use because of me.

Even if it's unpaid leave, they still have to pay for your benefits while you're away I think.

Going on the face value of what your original post says, it sounds like a very risky thing to do. PMs are going to have a significantly more difficult time getting a job than an engineer I think.


👤 pie420
Life is short. There will always be work. Live now, worry about what may or may not come to pass as it comes to pass. You will not regret taking a sabbatical, traveling the world, learning new skills, and picking up new hobbies on your deathbed, even if it meant you lost your job. You will regret not taking more adventures and trips around this beautiful planet.

👤 quickthrower2
The first point of call is your current job, find out the maximum amount of unpaid leave you can get and still come back to it. I have done this before and got 3 months off.

Another option is look for another job, with a starting date set in the future.

Q. Are you in an at-will employment jurisdiction? Or do you have more rights?


👤 ryandrake
I think a lot of responders here might be very young, even so young that they entered the workforce around 2011 or so and have never experienced a prolonged bear market. If that's the case for you, welcome to the shit. The days of sending your resume out on Monday and having a job offer with a 50% pay bump by Friday are over.

Having survived through all the tech downturns from 2000 onward, I would say: If you think your job is reasonably secure, don't even think about leaving it right now. Slow down a bit, maybe coast some and see if your mental health improves, take a week here and a week there of sick time, but don't let go of the life boat!

If you think burnout is bad, try having to send out hundreds of resumes and get one or two responses. That sucks. It sucks doubly when you are doing it at 11AM on a Tuesday because you're unemployed. Don't voluntarily do this to yourself.


👤 pengaru
12 years? This is not a startup anymore.

Are you sure you're not really just done with a stagnant business and ready for something fresh? Have you been considering the opportunity cost of staying at a single startup for 12 years? It's generally a 1-year vesting cliff for a reason...

As far as if it's a good time for a sabbatical in terms of the economy/job market, I have nothing sufficiently informed to contribute.


👤 theGnuMe
Burnout is an emotional, mental and physical exhaustion. It can lead to depression so I would treat it as your body telling you something is wrong.

Maybe start with a two-three possibly four week vacation totally unplugged and see if that helps you.

However, you need to take a step back and look at the forest rather than the trees with respect to the demands being made of you (and that you say 'yes' to). These can be family demands, work demands etc... They build and build causing stress eventually leading to burnout and possibly depression. Also a question to ask yourself is "are these demands asked of me aligned with my values?". Many times we are living the lives of other people and not our own. So you experience an emotional dissonance.

You also have to let go of the things you cannot control. You can't control the economy, you can't even control your job or necessarily the fate of your startup itself. If you stay, your company could implode. Since you have two incomes and can make some sacrifices maybe things will be ok.

Also while you are on sabbatical or vacation or just in general you probably need to learn some stress management skills. I would take up mindfulness meditation and see what that brings you. Connect with the present. Explore your mind body connection. The people really into meditation say it works so may as well give it a serious try.

Clearly something has to change and that could be something a simple as your perspective.

Also I'm not really writing to you here, but rather as a note to myself.


👤 epc
If the choice is between burning out and taking a sabbatical to get a break, take the sabbatical.

My only advice is: structure the sabbatical in some way. Give yourself some OKRs. Doesn't matter what they are. If you don't you'll find yourself at the start of the last month wondering where the time went (and, in my case, extending another few months).

Second piece of advice: set up a job to return to before you take the break. Once you leave the company/organization, regardless of the terms, it's much more difficult to line up roles. Lining up a role is never a guarantee, of course, but it's better than waiting until the last month and trying to get rehired.

Previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34971129 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27238018


👤 stewartjarod
Nah. It's never a bad time for that.

👤 tcrisco
Other people may have more luck than me. My situation, since being laid off half a year ago I figured I'd try to enjoy the time while it lasted, and travel a bit. Felt like I was close to burning out myself near the end of my previous tenure. Now... it feels like I've truly burnt out from job hunting 9 to 5. Only managed to get one technical screen I didn't pass, and they didn't give a reason. Drove me mad trying to figure out why, but I never did. Haven't gotten even a phone screen ever since, and it's been months.

I'm thinking that since finances and such are pushing me to the end of my rope my only option is menial work for the time being. I think I am depressed. Even if I got another screen and passed I don't know if I'd be capable of the work any longer. It's all hideously demoralizing and it's as if there's no light at the end of the tunnel. I was at a reasonably large company for five years previous, I guess there's only so much that can do in a zero-sum situation like now.

But again, I'm not sure if you'd have worse luck getting any sort of interview for an IC position at least. If burnout at work is that much of a concern and you're confident it makes less sense to go with "keep the job." But I certainly would have regretted leaving (if I had any control over the matter), knowing the job search has now turned into its own job for me, a mentally exhausting unpaid job with no guarantee of positive prospects and an endless stream of employers that reject you every week for no identifiable reason.


👤 riansanderson
At its root, I don’t think this question is really about the logistics of taking a sabbatical.

Something I didn’t fully recognize when I was burnt out: burnout is a personal emotional issue. At that time I (mistakenly) considered emotions a bug and not a feature.

So whatever direction you decide to go on the sabbatical, I highly recommend endeavoring to discover some emotional support and growth.

Online talk therapy has helped me greatly, but mostly the book I wish I had back then is “The Happiness Trap: How to Stop Struggling and Start Living”

https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Start-Livin...


👤 craftkiller
Regardless of whether or not it is a bad time, if things start getting bad DO NOT risk burn out. It is a terrible experience. It took me half a year before I could even work on personal programming projects that interested me.

👤 User23
I'm going to eat the internet point price for saying this, because it's important for you to know this if it applies to you.

If you are a straight white man now is absolutely a terrible time to go on a sabbatical. The DEI initiatives in tech are in full swing, and I'm personally familiar with many many cases where those applicants are summarily rejected without any consideration whatsoever.