HACKER Q&A
📣 boringg

Whats the modern day equivalent of 80s computer for kids to explore?


I fondly remember setting up and playing video games and learning all the DOS commands. Navigating the dos prompts, directories etc. I ask only that it felt navigable and you needed to be able to do that to get to playing games. It felt like an unintended introduction to the architecture of the games. This included edit files etc (sometimes to my detriment).

Was thinking about getting a system to play games in the house but my feeling is that theres no technical lift for installing playing games. That playing the game was enough of an incentive to figure out the shell.

Curious if anyone has ideas. Thanks!


  👤 chewz Accepted Answer ✓
I remember learning 6502 assembler from popular computer magazine to add myself more armored divisions and nukes in some war strategy game on C-64. Hard to imagine these days with modern games.

👤 ilaksh
Modern: Building games in Roblox?

You could get a Raspberry PI (or any computer with an emulator) or a real 80s computer. Set the PI up with whatever emulator. And maybe a book like this one

https://colorcomputerarchive.com/repo/Documents/Manuals/Hard...

Getting Started With Extended Color Basic.

Or set up a normal Linux without installing a GUI.

Or set up an emulator with DOS Box.

Or install nothing but Unity/Unreal Engine/Godot on a computer and disconnect it from the internet.


👤 andyjohnson0
Raspberry Pi 400 perhaps?

https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-400/

Kind of reminds me of my old Acorn Electron.


👤 mksybr
Browser Developer Tools -- a javascript REPL and a familiar environment (any website)

👤 hermitcrab
Scratch is a gentle introduction to programming, aimed mainly at young children. I taught it to a range of children and all of them were able to create a simple game in under an hour.

👤 ochrist
Well, apart from RPI - that has already been mentioned - you could look at the BBC microbit: https://microbit.org/

👤 mcook08
I’m a Dad who grew up in the 80s and the problem is us, the parents. My parents didn’t push me to get into computing, I just found it fascinating. If we try to find things like gentle introductions, it’s likely to get more kids to a base level familiarity but all of the real learning was in reading a 256 page manual as an 8 year old so I could get StarCraft to work on my highly custom rig. Parents as the driving force simply won’t work. Ask your kids what they are interested in and let them struggle with the problem for hours (days even) and they’ll be better for it than anything you could possibly install or provide to them.

Could your parents navigate DOS? Mine sure couldn’t but it didn’t stop me from learning.


👤 sys_64738
Computers were the most technically advanced and innovative thing a kid would see in the 80s. All their friends at school would be talking about them in some form or another. There was no distractions with smartphones or the internet either. Not so much nowadays so those times are gone.

👤 code_Whisperer
Depends on child's age, but here are some things from today that I would have probably found endlessly entertaining when I was a kid:

Flipper Zero

Raspberry PI

SDR

Not a computer, but still very relevant for inquisitive kids and adults:

Amateur radio (an oldie but a goodie)

Decent telescope

Decent microscope


👤 jmmv
I tried to set up a Raspberry Pi and configured it to boot into a simple window manager with DosBox full screen by default. I taught my kids to launch games within that and they learned the very basics… but it didn’t stick: they haven’t really gained any interest in how to do other stuff in the shell.

Anyway: check (my own) https://www.endbasic.dev/ which I’ve written precisely for the situation you describe :) You would actually have to /write/ the games first though!


👤 n2dasun
My favorite part of those old computers was sitting with a big book of code and typing things in and seeing a sprite appear, then move, change colors, etc. The closest thing I've seen in recent years was Code Angel, which I supported on kickstarter. It came with a raspberry pi with all the software loaded, along with a monstrous book of code to flip through and type in. Looks like some of the links are dated, but it appears to still be available

https://mycodeangel.com/shop/


👤 rocky1138
The Agon Console 8 springs to mind. It boots to BBC BASIC. https://www.hackster.io/news/the-agon-console8-is-an-educati...

👤 mfa1999
How about these? [1] Build in the spirit of the 80s home computers and with options of 8/16/32 bit (6502 and 680x0) and an active community.

[1] https://c256foenix.com/


👤 stef_841
Python with its Python shell - We - my 10 year old and I - are using Thonny as an editor. Just start the Phython editor an it‘s „all inside the box“. Closest to switch on a C64 from my days but in a modern world. Loading games, executing commands, running programs.

👤 herbst
Computercraft in Minecraft is a fun example. Next Minecraft generally

👤 xwdv
Minecraft, you can build a whole computer in there from base principles. Kids as young as 11 do it.

👤 talkingtab
A Rasberry Pi. The number of things you can do with these cheap computers is astronomical. You can have a Debian Linux computer and then learn networking, programming, run your own small website. Then start on hardware. Connect up various hardware devices, maybe starting with just a fan. Turn on. Turn off. A second monitor, larger disks. Webrtc. On an on.

You never know what kinds of things kids will like. They may like building a website. Or getting the fan to turn. Or setting the prompt to "hey dude?".

My own experience is that kids like to do things - to see some result. They don't get much of that these days, so anything to encourage that vs being a clickbait consumer is good.

As for games, there were old Freddy Fish, Monkey Island games. Putt-putt does whatever was a favorite. I have not run retro-pi or whatever but I think many of those things are still available.


👤 jl6
I don’t think this experience is available any more.

The missing ingredient is not the technology, but the motivation/reward.

In the 80s/early 90s, fiddling with that system setup earned you an interactive audiovisual experience that you simply couldn’t get anywhere else, not even on TV.

Today, there is very little that kids haven’t already seen on YouTube, or that can’t be played at the click of a button.

It was an era of constraint that has now passed, and isn’t coming back.


👤 dmvdoug
Small robots, Raspberry Pi, small drones: those are the things I’ve seen at high school level.

The terrifying part is that the great majority of my 9th graders are not very experienced with actual computers (laptops included). Their knowledge of computing extends no further than their phones, but because phones are so powerful, there’s nothing, particularly mysterious or compelling about computers. They were like magic boxes that you just had to figure out somehow when I was a kid.


👤 anta40
I wonder if this article is somehow related: "https://www.gamesindustry.biz/machine-code-is-for-kids-artic..."

TLDR: The author (a game developer who started with BASIC on ZX Spectrum in the 80s) asked if there's a modern equivalent of BASIC with "little to no abstraction". In the past, it used to be the BASIC-asm combo.


👤 naveen99
Chatgpt ?

👤 OJFord
I don't really have a suggestion for a motivating goal (like a game), but my first thought is Linux not Windows or macOS. I 'cut my teeth' on Windows, but you just end up with pointless techniques/'skills' with no understanding like 'try rebooting', 'clear registry' etc. and simply setting an environment variable is made to seem like some mystifyingly advanced thing.

Second thought is Raspberry Pi - through a combination of cost & GPIO. You didn't mention hardware, but with 'computers' at the user-friendly stage they are today, that's probably the best way to recreate the feeling you want? Tinkering on the computer resulting in some real life visual/audible/etc. output. (Or RL sensors making something happen on the computer.)


👤 meltyness
[delayed]

👤 ianseyler
Kano - https://kano.tech/us/original

Looks like their website has changed around. They used to have a kit that came with a raspberry pi (that you had to assemble yourself) and their own Linux-based OS that taught you about computers and the command line

https://github.com/KanoComputing/kano-desktop https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kano-computer-kit-touch...


👤 jpalomaki
I think the "competition" is much harder nowadays. When you have all the AAA games available, it's not that exciting to just get something moving on the screen.

Maybe something physical would be interesting? Like programming a led-strip (nowadays you have these where you can individually address the lights), robotic arm or something like that.

If kids are into certain games, maybe there's some opportunities to explore on the modding side. Like for the Euro Truck simulator you can bring your own graphics for the trucks. No idea how complicated it is to package those, but it would probably teach a ton of things.


👤 em500
There is no a modern day equivalent. Not because of availibility of hardware or software (both better hardware and better software are widely available at trivial costs nowadays), but because the world around us has changed. Specifically, the experience needs to compete against the limitless other distractions from the internet.

Here's a simple simulation of the 1980s experience: https://virtualconsoles.com/online-emulators/c64/ If your kid is like most kids, they might spend 20s on this before they get back to their Youtube/TikTok/Instagram/Roblox fix. Or maybe a few hours at best if there's a very enthusiastic adult sitting next to them explaining everything. But they'll probably be back at their regular internet distraction as soon as the adult is gone.

For a decent recreation of the 1980s experience, you'd need to shut the kids off from the internet for some extended period. But even that is only an approximation, if they have any contact with other kids.


👤 Taikonerd
Most people are posting links to hardware, but in my mind, this is a software question. Maybe one of those BASIC interpreters with an integrated IDE, the way that QBASIC used to be on older Windows versions?

QB64 is the modern equivalent: https://qb64.com/

Your kids won't literally need to navigate the command line to launch the games. But I think that editing config files to "hack" the game is still on the table :-)


👤 beardyw
Whilst I understand the nostalgia, I think it's easy to forget that these things were modern and exciting - not so much today. I suggest you take what is here today and use it.

If it were me (and it may soon be) I would get them to make a static (ie with no backend processing) web page. It is easy and can be free to publish it. The basic page can then be enhanced with interaction using scripting almost without limits.

The child can show it off to anyone with a screen. You can control the publishing since it can be built offline.

And before you say JavaScript is terrible, so is Basic!

This is the modern equivalent to what you remember.


👤 realo
Factorio, but for kids...

👤 bowsamic
Your childhood interest in 80s computing is like the golden era of MMOs. Now there are bigger and "greater" things and the entire thing just seems poor and pointless now. You can't go back and recreate it, because the context is now different. It would be pure re-enactment. Back then it was the best thing about, if you didn't have an arcade near you then it was probably even the most powerful videogames machine you had access to. Now, there is always the knowledge that you will never make something as cool as what the big companies can make.

👤 browningstreet
Minecraft

👤 galfarragem
Hacking drones is still on early days with lots of low hanging fruit if you have time and nothing else to think about. An order of magnitude more dangerous than PCs were in the 80s so parents may resist the idea.

👤 devit
Getting non-native games to run on emulators can sometimes give a similar experience.

You can also do things like having a Linux machine with a powerful GPU but no GUI installed.


👤 alexwasserman
I bought a Kano kit for my son (he was 9 or 10). I think they went under but it was a Pi 3 with a specific Linux based OS designed for learning.

It came in bits with very nice instructions for building it. Bright cables, easy Lego style diagrams. The keyboard is wireless with a built in track pad, and charges via a built in usb cable. All very neat and self contained.

We got to build a whole computer, plug it into the TV, and it behaves a bit like a console.

It has a mix of learn shell, basic programming and fun Linux games (including Minecraft). The whole OS includes a gamified points system too, to encourage more learning.

I think the OS is a free download, but you could easily get a Pi and some fun accessories and build something.

On my to-do list next is building a pi based motion sensor camera for the basement to see if we have mice. Part serious need, part fun game.

For a lot of things though he learns more left alone. Building iPad and iPhone games using some of the drag and drop gaming toolkit apps, for example. My parents had no idea what I did on the computer and couldn’t have helped. I taught myself. He likes that too


👤 tshirttime
Unplug the computer from the internet, hand the kid a UNIX manual, and suck all joy from computing.

Having a working browser teach you programming is like having an android in the form of Kelly LeBrock teach you robotics. You're gonna want to do things to it that engage your little brain.


👤 taf2
Arduino/ circuit python and Lego

👤 pan69
Your kids are most likely interested in things you are not interested in. It's understandable that you want your kids to have a great experience growing up and develop fond memories of their childhood like you were able to do.

Rather than trying to find something that replicates your childhood memories for them, why let them find those themselves? I'm sure your parents brought a computer into the house, but was that so that you could have the same childhood experience growing up with computers like they had? For them that computer was probably just a tool, for you it end up becoming a world. Or maybe your parents brought that computer into house because they thought it might become important to be exposed to.

I would suggest that you expose your kids to things like science, art, technology and engineering (high level) and let them decide what they find interesting, what clicks with them. Then all you have to do is support them where you can.


👤 fortyseven
Why just there be something like what we had? What did like-minded kids do before the 1980s? Phreaking? Electronics? Ham radio? Miniature railroads? It will find them, whatever it is. The hacking spirit is not limited to the domain of computers.

👤 chpatrick
ESPHome

👤 josh-sematic
I had this experience with Texas Instruments graphing calculators in the 00s. They have a language, TI-BASIC that was my first introduction to programming. You can even make small games with ASCII characters on the screen (ex: I made one where a “Y” you controlled with the arrow keys fell through “floors with holes” made of dashes and spaces). Obviously super helpful for science and math classes, which was the only way I used it at first. You can program with just the calculator itself; you don’t even need a computer. I think TI-83/TI-84 are still used in classrooms, which is what I used.

👤 sen
Raspberry Pi 400 + PICO-8.

My 9 year old is in love with this combo. It’s really easy to learn based off YouTube tutorials, and you can instantly share your creations with friends who don’t need to install or have anything other than a browser to play (and even works on mobile browsers well)


👤 mikewarot
Tangentially, check out GNU Radio.... you can do a lot of cool audio stuff with it, and a cheap USB based receiver is only $25 or so. They could "build" an FM radio, etc.

👤 lifeformed
Pico-8

👤 boringalterego
Well simh was listed a couple days ago on HN. That and virtualization will get you just about all the old software experiences that you could want.

As for hardware . Visit a regional vintage computing festival.

There will be people very enthusiastic about what they have got working from that era.


👤 fennecs
Wow editing files and navigating directories, that sounds so fun these days /s

Build a redstone computer in minecraft


👤 rapjr9
A music synthesizer. It's a pathway to learning electronics, music, and the nature of sound. There are cheap kits, cheap synths, lots of kinds of synths, and there are much more complicated and expensive systems you can grow into. You can get software synths also, VCV Rack is a free though complex one:

https://vcvrack.com/

However I'd recommend an inexpensive hardware one with real knobs you can turn, like one of the Korg Volca series:

https://www.korg-volca.com/en/

Recording the sounds can lead into exploring all the concepts and gear involved in recording and mixing music. It's not mutually exclusive with doing other things also, you can play with both synths and computers and being involved with something artistic can add dimensions to and an escape from the nature of classwork/work.

Some other suggestions: gardening, high voltage electronics (with lots of supervision), electronics, photography, movie making, ham radio (gnu radio), show lighting systems (there's more than disco lights, robotics is involved), robotics, acoustic instruments (guitar, piano, flute, drums), sensors (you don't necessarily have to know electronics, get a data logger with built in sensors), weather monitoring/forecasting, hydraulic systems (with supervision), wood working, metal working, 3D printing, bird watching, painting, minibikes/small engines.


👤 rerdavies
Pretty much the universal consensus seems to be Raspberry Pis.

Raspberry Pis were created for kids (originally built to support a BBC-sponsored educational program), and they remain fully committed to supporting kids.

Visit https://www.raspberrypi.org/ to see how they execute on that vision. Lots of great and manageable projects for kids ranging from relatively simple cook-book-based projects to sky's-the-limit adventures in insanity.

Go for nothing less than a Pi 4 8GB (required to run VScode reasonably). Or a Pi 5 obviously.

A GPIO breadboard might be a good strategy to get them hooked initially; but the novelty wears off pretty quickly. Offer to buy them any Pi hat or camera or panel that interests them. None of them are particularly expensive.


👤 tmaly
I think the Microbit is a nice starting point for kids 10-11.

You can code it with block programming, Python, or Javascript in the MS Makecode interface.

If you have two Microbits, they can talk to each other over the built in radio.

I have created my own remote control lego robot with two microbits, a breakout board, and two micro servos.

I think there are over 25 million units sold all over the world.



👤 INTPenis
Sorry for being a pessimist but it's easy for us old farts to have a limited perspective and think that if we just present a young person with a system similar to what we had they will figure it out.

The problem with that perspective is that we didn't have anything else. A c64 was literally all I had. It was either that, or go out and play in nature.

So we had a much greater incentive to figure things out.


👤 RecycledEle
Raspian Linux in a Raspberry Pi.

I wonder if there is a distro that locks the kid into the command line and offers a time of help?

Python and GPIO offer tons of cool embedded system possibilities.


👤 cm2012
I learned file systems by pirating games and having to find the cracked folder

👤 iancmceachern
A raspberry pi

👤 flipcoder
I've seen a number of posts like this usually wanting a specific device that is good for kids that has the appeal of old computers. The answer is that any laptop loaded with creativity app works great if you have an attitude shift that it is a creative device rather than a consumption device. Choose your apps and get used to building things with it. Avoid social media, youtube, netflix, and the fun will come back.

👤 creer
Scratch is amazing. https://scratch.mit.edu/

And a slightly different direction than what you describe. Nowadays a complete "basic environment" on a computer (say a Raspberry Pi, sure why not, but perhaps simply a used laptop) feels too complicated. Far more complicated than DOS was.

Scratch is actually both interesting for kids and a seriously competent programming environment. They can explore; they can implement basic games; they can implement ambitious games or other directions like story telling. And possibly (but not all that easily) open for cooperation, cooperating on larger projects with others.


👤 SkyMarshal
Build a PC, install Linux on it, then figure out how to play Windows games on it with Wine (or Lutris). Show them what total ownership of their computer really feels like (or at least as close to that as possible while playing 3rd party games). I think that feeling of ownership of your computing environment is the real analog between what you describe back in the 80s and today's equivalent.

👤 WillPostForFood
check out the Clockwork uConsole - fun piece of hardware to mess with.

https://www.clockworkpi.com/


👤 winddude
windows xp time wiseish, but don't do it.

I'd spin them up ubuntu on a newish PC or raspberry pi, let them install the packages in the terminal, steam, etc. Or experiment with some dev, and things they seem interested in. I think there are some very cool robotics kits for the pi that introduce them to a lot of things


👤 a-dub
setting up a private minecraft server (or similar) on digitalocean or a rpi?

making goofy python scripts? pygame?

style transfer for voice on google colab?

various adafruit projects with microcontrollers or rpis?

langchain and similar?


👤 dave333
Doing some fun projects with an eclectic mix of current tech SBCs, a language like Python, web technologies - pick a lightweight framework, some big data sourced from the web. Plus have old laptops to disassemble and modify etc.

👤 mikewarot
I suggest an Arduino kit, with some servos, photocells, LEDs, switches etc. There's no screen on it, so they have to get used to the idea of dealing with inputs and outputs. This forces you to think deeply about what's going on.

Later, they could hook up an LCD screen and keypad to do things, if they want.

Later they could move away from the world of 5 volt I/O and into the world of 3.3 volt and less Raspberry Pi, etc, where things get trickier in terms of noise, etc.


👤 gjchentw
Github Codespaces, no kidding. Launch some html5 game projects in codespaces and make modifications to get to know how it works.