What is your policy regarding smartphones in your children?

I haven't bought smartphones for my kids. Some of their friends have smartphones and this sometimes leads to complaints and longer conversations, for now they accept my list of reasons, I'm yet to see what will future bring.

I think this is something that has not been well integrated into smartphone devices & computers

Here is what I would want.

- Access to my child's browsing history

- Access to my child's YouTube watch history

- Require my (remote approval) before a child wants to install an application

- Give me the remote ability to turn off acess to certain applicationsy child use for a certain period

- The ability for me to block certain sites from my child browser like shock sites

I keep talking to my older kid (pre teen) about the harmful effects of phones and screens. She seems to get it. But the real test is yet to come - middle and high school where most kids have a phone. I am hoping that my kids will be ok being mavericks. I realize that hope is not a plan but the reality is that my environment is against me so there isnt a sure fire way to protect children unless you are ok with sheltering them to a point where it eventually becomes debilitating for them to operate in the real world.

To the OP: people typically have a herd mentality. HN is no different in that way. All you can do is try to instill trust between you and your kids and hope they will listen to you. You should also be super transparent with them about why you take the position you take. Give examples of people’s addiction to their screen as I am sure you can find a few in your own extended family or surroundings. Generally speaking , going against the grain takes a high degree of belief in something. Overcoming one’s minds transient desires requires strong intellect. That can be developed but it’s not an overnight thing and it’s certainly extremely hard when most People barely have any time to themselves or their kids - at least in USA (where real wages have been stagnant for 30+ years but cost of living has not. In some ways the US deserves the birth rate decline it’s facing.)

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9 and 12 boys.

They carry dumb phones for calls only (we gave them one when they started going on multi day trips from school or outside of it at age like 6/7).

They both have laptops and can game on and communicate with friends and classmates.

They have old iPhones they sometimes use at home (with no sim cards). Those don't leave the house and are very rarely used (mostly to chat in friends groups).

They don't watch youtube (except for music sometimes). They know what TikTok is (because all their friends watch it), but they don't (currently) have interest in it (mainly because we've had long talks about how terrible doom scrolling social sites and short videos is).

If at some point we give them smart phones with sim cards, we'll heavily restrict social media sites and apps, but I plan on keeping the dumb phones in use for as long as possible (hopefully until 15-16).

I live in Finland, and have a child who will soon turn seven. Finnish children start school "proper" around this age, and this is the first time they're able to make their own way to/from school.

(Some children walk, some cycle, and others take the regular busses and trams, depending on the distance involved. In our case the child has to walk a few hundred meters, and not cross any roads at all, so it's an easy walk for him.)

Because school finishes around 2pm we've just recently given him a phone so he can say "I'm going to play outside", "I'm coming [to the empty] home", or "I'm going to friend XXX for a couple of hours". It isn't a proper smartphone, but it does allow more than an old-school Nokia.

We've generally allowed 30 minutes of "screen time" a day, sometimes that has been watching selected youtube videos, sometimes playing Super Mario Bros on the nintendo, and sometimes it has been watching TV. I expect the dynamic will change a little more now, but not hugely.

Parental controls will be setup to allow more access between 1pm and 6pm, but I expect that we'll not allow access in the mornings or "late" at night, just to ensure there's not too much obsessive use.

When/If the child can route around the parental controls I think we'll "reward" that creativity with more access. Need to encourage the hacker-mindset :)

> Recently, there are more and more studies that smartphones harm learning and not a single study with the opposite results.

1) It's much more nuanced than you're making it out to be. There are a lot of studies that show overuse of phones ("phone addiction") is bad for academic performance. Going beyond that runs into some serious correlation/causation problems. For example, children in lower income families spend significantly more time in front of a screen than middle-class families.

2) Is "learning" the sole issue you're concerned about? There are studies that show cell phone bans are harmful in other ways: reducing social interaction, student happiness, and feelings of safety.

If you look at the above two points together I think you can draw a conclusion that smartphones, like most other things, are fine in moderation.

Here are the AAP recommendations about screen time: https://www.aap.org/en/patient-care/media-and-children/cente... AAP has a reputation for being conservative and evidence-based in what they recommend.

Children 10 and 7. We are very anti screentime as it always seemed to send ours kids crazy and create behavioural issues.

We started loosening it for the 10 year old, but within 6 months of that we had a few incidences of early online bullying so we are pushing back again.

I personally hate to see kids and young people zombified looking at phones and want to delay, delay, delay.

If any of the kids are like the way I was they have two phones, a fake phone for the parents to see and control, and then a real phone I keep to myself

Not until 15

Our policy is we don't have children

10 y/o - No phone, tablet, computer of any type. (Combination of Reggio Emilia and Montessori schooling, so almost no technology at school either.)

We're right on the cusp of giving her a laptop w/ some flavor of desktop Linux and LibreOffice. She has expressed interest in typing versus hand-writing schoolwork. I'm also considering giving her an offline copy of Wikipedia, and perhaps a typing drill app. Edit: No network access, though. Strictly an offline machine.

She has sent text messages to me with her mother's phone a few times and had a lot of fun. I wish she had a phone for emergency calls and perhaps text messages to with specified contacts. (There are times I find myself wishing I could email or text her... >smile<) Her mother and I are Apple phone users, albeit w/o iCloud accounts and minimal interaction w/ the Apple "mothership". I wish their parental controls didn't require using iCloud.

I did no devices at all until kindergarten. I have a tv connected to Plex via appletv in my living area and would watch a few shows with them.

Gave unlimited books and magazines.

Elementary school- bought an iPad with screen time and “no devices upstairs” (all bedrooms were upstairs). 30 minutes on school days, 60 minutes on weekend. Wi-Fi rules to shut off at night. Pihole to block porn and YouTube.

Middle school got laptops with same controls. And a gaming pc in the living room.

No instagram until 13. This was hard because all other kids got at 10 or earlier. Am trying to push this to 16 with later children.

High school- same laptop, little more screen time and later Wi-Fi turnoffs.

Phones with data when they have jobs and can afford to pay directly.

Hard to tell if this “works.” Have done some tests of how much screen time and apps and behavior was very different for the worse with more screen time. Things like more arguments. Less time creating art or playing in person with friends with more screen time.

I have 2 boys, 10 & 12. The 12YO has an Apple Watch which is useful to keep track of where he is and being able to reach each him (or him reach us). No social media or games, which is what most people are worried about at that age. So it seems like a decent trade-off. You can set it up to not allow phone calls or messages from unknown numbers, which means no scam calls/messages.

My child is 11 and starting middle school next year (US). They walk to and from school. They have an iPad and a PC at home, with a lot of freedom, but I also have pretty solid DNS filtering for ads, malware, and some other junk. Social media isn’t allowed, and their email account is forwarded to us. iMessage is allowed contacts only but it’s just a matter of asking us. We want some oversight. But no phone - the iPad stays home, and they have an Apple Watch that lets us keep in contact, know where they are, but has no real distraction apps and no camera. We don’t really know when we’ll allow a smartphone but not soon.

There have been a couple similar posts recently.

But in those similar posts and this one, the OPs never mention how they were raised.

I think it’d be interesting to know.

Even if it’s not a smartphone. It could be a Nokia trac phone or whatever. It could be video games. It could be their own personal laptop or pc or their own AOL kids or teen account.

It’s hard to provide advice when we don’t know the base.

Got three kids. They all got a smartphone at 11. But a locked down iOS device initially. As trust and responsibility is built they get given more capability.

I am 100% against completely banning them from using it as it excludes them from important social situations and an anti-technology policy hurts them in the long run.

They're here to stay: be a responsible parent and help them use them safely. Reward what they do well, don't punish them up front.

Edit: my eldest is 2nd year at university now. Without the technology focused upbringing she would have the burden of learning that on top of the education. Now she zooms around on her iPad Pro / Apple Pencil as an extension of herself. No technology is a barrier to her.

11,9,5 year olds.

The 11 year old is addicted to his phone/switch. But he constantly plays with friends so when we block it he ends up being somewhat isolated. Seems like a can’t win situation but he is also pretty active with sports and does great in school.

9 year old doesn’t have restrictions but seems to get sick of it after an hour most days (more on weekends). She only games with her brother usually watches YouTube.

5 year old gets 1-2 hours of tv time a day. Usually because she wakes up first and turns the tv on herself, and then right after daycare while one od us is preparing food.

It’s really challenging. The younger ones get jealous of the older one if he gets more screen time. The older one is very social and suffers when he’s isolated from his friends when we turn off his screens.

I use Android, and it has Family Link. Basically parents can (remote) control their kids' phone. No 3rd party app required.

You can set very granular things, like which apps they can open, for how long, and what permissions are allowed. For app installs, the parents can remote-approve it, or allow kids to download only free apps (not good idea).

You can see adjust the restrictions on the fly, like oh you've done your homework, I'll give you extra hour. You can see usage report.

My kids are still using it to watch youtube. So I'm not successful yet.

No phones until 13 or 14.

Yet, I don't have the courage to make a peep when I see friends handing their phones to their kids so they'll let us talk at the restaurant.

In my day (back then) they'll send me to buy cigarettes or some other errand.

good info here: https://www.waituntil8th.org/

My child (now sixteen) has had unfettered access to technology and the internet since he was about four years old. He's had old tablets and laptops, and a mobile phone (since about the age of nine). I don't monitor his use, or use parental controls. He's familiar with macOS, Windows and Linux, and can build his own PC. I fail to see any negative effects with my attitude towards his use of tech.

As someone who spent _a lot_ of time playing video games in elementary and then every waking moment on computers/the internet when I was in middle school, but still had friends, got good grades, and have a fine career, I have mixed feelings about electronics. I'm old enough to see that clearly some children are addicted to their tablets/phones/videogames to the detriment of everything, but I also see what impact having no exposure can do and it's not great either but in a different way. I think a middle grade and understanding your child is called for.

My daughter is only 4, but she's had access to a tablet since 1. She's far less addicted than any of her cousins. She will give it up in a heartbeat to do anything else. Sometimes just cartwheels down the hallway. Her tablet is wall garden locked to amazon, so no access to youtube which was honestly a good move looking at some of her classmates. I've some apps outside of Amazon's garden like Disney Plus. All her stuff has parental controls and her tablet operates at my pleasure and before bedtime.

I think that some this is just parenting. I saw a study that stated that screen time only correlated with bad outcomes if your kid would have been doing something else. So if your kid could have been interacting with you, but instead was play games or watching streaming then that's where it's bad. If they would have just been home doing nothing, then the tablet doesn't hurt and can sometimes help.

I've taken this to heart and from a young age I've tried to just do stuff with my kid and have her so stuff and make sure she understood that while riding in the car with her tablet was okay, using it at the park was not okay. Replace park with literally anything. I think this is why now, her tablet is more of a boredom thing for her and she's doesn't need it every moment of every day. She'd rather run outside.

I'm just a sample of one and I know I'm more strict the more addicted the child seems to be (I have many niblings). I do think that screens are dangerous, but so is sugar and I think like sugar you a balance is best. You don't want a kid sneaking sodas because you never let them have one, but allowing soda every day is probably bad idea. That's my stance about screens. If you feel more attached to your phone, etc beyond it being a tool, you probably need a longer break from one is my thinking.

As a slightly different perspective. I live in Christchurch on my child's 7th birthday we had a 7.2 earthquake in the middle of the night. A few months later a 6.8 hit much harder in the daytime. More than a hundred died. Kids were at school. After that event people prioritised empowering their children with communication tools.

More recently when much of the inner city was in lockdown, those tools proved invaluable. Even if it were just for kids communicating to other kids in lockdown in the room next door.

After having raised a child to maturity with no policy I would recommend no devices at all for as long as you can maintain sanity. Eventually you will have to break down simply because they do provide a certain utility but until the utility to distraction ratio exceeds 1 don't do it.

We have a 2 year old and we don't use our phones or devices when she's around unless it's a video call from family or an important phone call.

We're happy with the results so far since she's turned out to be a very patient, intelligent, and attentive child. She finds enjoyment in books, puzzles, drawing, cooking, gardening, cleaning, unloading/loading the dishwasher, laundry, and all sorts of activities her overstimulated peers would find boring nowadays.

I think FOSS vs proprietary software is sort of orthogonal to what kind restrictions you should probably impose as a parent. It might be more useful to think about what kind of online environments your kids are engaging in. Anything monetized by ads is sketchy. Unfortunately, that's most of the internet.

My two sons were born in the early 2000's. When they were in elementary school, they had access to a desktop computer in our living room (running Gentoo Linux). In early elementary school, they had whitelist of web sites they could access, with Wikipedia as the home page. They each had about an hour a day, under parental supervision.

In middle school, they had tablets, which we made them turn in before bed time. I installed Minecraft on the desktop. Battle For Wesnoth is pretty good too.

In high school, we got them cell phones, and the school handed them laptops. We made them turn electronics in before bedtime, but we relaxed this as they got older.

I absolutely recommend setting boundaries. Properly instilling discipline in children takes a lot of self-discipline as a parent, and maintaining these boundaries can be a lot harder than it sounds. Be prepared for arguments. For better and worse, their cell phones are their connection to their peers, much of it mediated by Instagram and Snapchat.

It depends a lot on the kid too. Turning in the cell phone before bedtime became a major point of contention with my older son. We never had those problems with the younger one. I don't think we treated them that that differently, it's just how their personalities are. I think the kids turned out okay in the end. The older one is now serving in the US Marine Corps and the younger one just left for college a few weeks ago.

Love your kids, and stay involved with them. Then slowly let go.

Here was my parents' policy, and how it played out. I was born in the early 90s into a hyper-conservative family and was homeschooled.

- Almost zero gaming was allowed, even when I turned 18. A typing game was occasionally permitted, and I could play Oregon Trail once every few years.

- A few select VHS tapes were available for viewing on a tube TV. I was allowed to watch one or two times per week.

- When I turned 13, I received a no-internet desktop computer, on which I was permitted to spend an hour on a good day.

- I could occasionally use the "family computer", but it needed to be supervised when the ethernet cable was connected to the DSL modem/router. It also had overly sensitive internet filters.

That was pretty much all I was allowed to do. However, how it played out was very different.

At 13, I was fascinated with technology and desperately wanted to learn programming, hacking, or whatever else I could get my hands on. My parents weren't exactly fans of this, but they did let me do research on the family computer sometimes and didn't completely hinder my progress. Long story short... I bypassed the internet filters, flashed DD-WRT onto a Netgear router I found, switched it into client mode which let me use the neighbors' Wi-Fi (that I cracked), and rigged an impressive setup that made it look like I was reading encyclopedias all day.

A few years later, I had released an app on mobile stores and was doing web development work for some clients. I was making good money. My parents didn't know about almost anything, and I had to pretend to start a business and get clients (all of whom I already had). Once it was official, I was allowed to do client work and didn't have to use sneaky setups anymore.

My entire life was online. Learning new skills, making friends, gaming, watching movies, and more. It sounds terrifying to me now, but I was a decent kid and just wanted to learn (and I definitely learned risk-assessment).

I'm not sure where I'd be today if the rules didn't exist, if the box of tech garbage didn't have a DD-WRT compatible router inside, or if the setup didn't allow me to sneakily spend 6+ hours a day on an internet-connected computer. I know I've developed extremely good problem-solving skills as a result, though.

I don't have kids yet, but I've always told myself that providing my children with fun challenges should always be more important than enforcing strict rules.

Smartphone in high school, not before.

No social media apps on the phone. Parental control (iOS) so need Parent permission before installing apps

At home most/almost every non-professional social media is blocked via pi-hole

I’m not on FB, Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok etc. I think this is very very important for the above since kids see that parents are also not on social media. Most people, IMHO, run into trouble when they use it but want to restrict kids.

This mostly worked for a kid who just went to college. Will see if it works for the other.

Edit: have Switch and PS5, but multiplayer internet games are not allowed. Offline games only.

I have a whitelisting proxy for my kids at home (squid based). Later I will change it to blacklisting, then just logging before eventually giving them uncontrolled access. I don't have a timetable for it and will change it whenever it feels appropriate.

I also use Wireguard to route my own mobile phone traffic through my home network. When the time comes to give the kids smartphones (which I'm in no hurry to do) I will initially give them managed devices with always-on wireguard to the home network, so traffic goes through the same proxy.

We talk a lot about the complexities, opportunities and dangers of the internet and the kids are accepting of the restrictions.

The technology exists to manage this. It's the same stuff companies use for byod. It's just that nobody makes it easy for parents to do it.

The kids in my family attend a school where the parents have all verbally agreed to not get their kids a smart phone until 16. This removes the peer pressure element of owning a phone/instagram/etc. When that’s removed there is little downside and huge upsides to the kids not having phones.

They can have one when they get a job and can afford to purchase it (and a data plan) on their own. So far that has happened around 17+ years old.

At home we use Circle. If they want their phone to be on our wifi, it has to have the circle vpn installed. I assumed they would just want to use their own data, but so far all of them have voluntarily chosen to have the circle vpn installed.

I have a "minimal screens" policy. What screens they do get are creative. For example, KidPix. I don't allow games or video watching. This puts the screen squarely in the "arts and crafts" space, where it belongs, and I don't need to put limits on it because they limit themselves.

They won't have smartphones or tablets of their own until high school. And even then it will be for creative things, comms with friends. No social media.

I will allow them to play some online games, like Fortnite and Rocket League, with the chat/mic turned off. My daughter loves Astro's Playroom (great game BTW) so she's gonna be a gamer. Game consoles aren't the problem. The always on pocket screen that's constantly beeping with promises of a dopamine hit is a HUGE problem. It may seem like a fine distinction, but it's crystal clear to me (and to them). I make a point to show them what screens have done to groups in the world, when you see people all looking at their phones instead of each other at dinner. We laugh at them and pity them, and this is correct.

Regardless of what rules we choose, one thing I don't see here in the comments much is the practice of setting a good example for your kids. Kids can easily identify hypocrisy. A parent can't tell their child to not get addicted to a smartphone if the parent himself is addicted to a smartphone. So as parents we set ground rules for our own conduct before even thinking about policy for the child: We should not sit there mindlessly scrolling, especially in front of the child. If we need to use the phone for some task, take it out, do the task, and show the child that you're using the smartphone as a tool to accomplish something, not for passive consumption.

If you limit your kid's screen time to some arbitrary amount that you yourself cannot even achieve, you're transparently sending the message that you're full of shit and kids know when you're full of shit.

I'm making him read the Linux kernel line by line (he shouldn't run any software he can't audit). So far it's not working out very well, but I have hope.

WiFi tablet / Chromebook before then say 5th or 6th grade.

I’ve 4 kids, so you can imagine that once it’s on the house, it’s in the house and anyone can access the device.

Phone with a SIM card in 8th grade.

If they create a social media account (including chess.com and TikTok) they have to “friend” us - their parents.

This is working well for us, especially on the family logistics side: shared calendaring, family iMessage thread, shared shopping lists.

I’ve also enjoyed seeing how each kid uses the device differently.

Thread is depressing af. I wonder how many people here had unrestricted access to computers and internet growing up ( I did ) and I am thankful for that. If a kid wanted to do what they wanted to, no amount of restrictions are gonna help.

10 & 12, both have iPads with restrictions - 2 hours/day with certain apps excepted, e.g. drawing, coding, other educational apps. No smartphones yet, but both have cellular Apple watches. Texting only with contacts, I manage the contacts. We've consistently drawn the line at 9th grade for their first smartphone, which is fairly late compared to our contemporaries.

They have lots of other things to do, too, of course. We have a Switch, Xbox, trampoline, swimming pool, hot tub, and a neighborhood full of other kids their age. They would probably spend more time on YouTube than I'd prefer if I didn't put a cap on it, but it's been basically fine so far. We do have a rule against iPads in bedrooms with closed doors, though that is starting to relax a bit with the 12 year old.

Kids grow, you kinda have to roll with it and adjust to fit the situation. You can't keep them innocent forever, and if you try, you will not get the well adjusted adult you're aiming for. We have some family who are hard core home schoolers (for religious reasons) and it turns out a disaster more often than not. They're so worried about public school indoctrination but are then surprised to find their own kids refuse to be indoctrinated at home.

I have two 13-years-old kids. No mobile phones. Most friends have phones. Pressure is high. Kids can use their mother's phone to answer some class group messages. Kids still surviving and thriving. Parents still resisting. Good luck everyone.

The "family computer" of long ago ages seemed to attenuate the kinds of addiction we see today. It also made computing more social since the only resource was shared.

Quite little except lots of education/dialogue, app approval/setup, and parental oversight on demand (i.e. we can ask to look at their devices up to a certain age). We have had zero problems of overuse, misuse, attitude, or the like. They do have lots of extracurricular activities and clubs to keep them busy/social though with little spare time (something I don't wholeheartedly agree with - being "bored" made me quite inventive as a kid - but my wife's methods seem to result in good kids so I'm going with it!)

We got our kids smartphones when they started middle school -- for our convenience, not their entertainment. I control what they install and I set time limits on when they can use them. They are not allowed to have social media accounts, and thus far my only bugbear is the fact that I have to allow browser access but that then allows unfettered access to Youtube.

I generally trust my kids and they're pretty responsible, but there's a lot of stuff out there they could inadvertently wander into, and while they probably aren't at elevated risk, I don't want it to happen sooner than necessary.

They have Android phones, btw, and are practically the only ones in the school who do. The result has been that they use Messages + Telegram for chat. They barely acknowledge the fact that their Google accounts mean they have email accounts, and even if anyone sends them anything they don't read it. App-based push notifications are a requirement if you want tweens'/teens' attention.

We bought them phones as a safety precaution because they 1) ride their bikes to school, and 2) we're all over the place in the evenings with sports practices, some of which don't end until 9:15pm. We appreciate them being accessible -- by us -- and giving them the ability to communicate with us and their friends, too.

Phones are not allowed in bedrooms or bathrooms in our house, either, for adults or kids. :)

High school. We were able to keep our oldest from having a smartphone until then. She’s in college now.

The external pressures are nuts. It got to where she was just staring at the screens of her friends phones.

My next oldest starts middle school next year. She has a smartwatch set to “family mode” for when she wants to walk to her friends or the park without an adult. She has access to the internet on a home computer. I think that better because she just ends up researching her curiosities over “engaging” with some mobile app. I get a report of her search history to make sure there’s nothing that is a code red.

The issue is not the phone the issue is how you use it. The problem are not books the problem is what you read. The issue is not tv te issue is what choose to watch. The issue is not sugar the issue is what choose to eat

The mental health issues our youth are facing have significant roots in smartphones/social media. The longer you can delay it without having your child be ostracized from their peers the better. Each child will likely need a different approach, but I'd encourage heavy involvement and oversight by parents. The bad far outweighs the good, but if monitored you can hopefully mitigate the bad.

No parent has ever told me they wished they had given their kid a phone sooner.

My mind turns to milestones. Maybe puberty is the key, when social groups get more complex. Maybe it’s when they get a driver's license, and can travel a city away at the drop of a hat. Maybe it’s when they start attending parties, and you want them to be able to get out or home the moment they feel unsafe. It probably depends on the kid and their peers, but all those are around 13-15.

Screens aren’t themselves bad; my kid has great fun playing crosswords and code deciphering games, and it’s practically no different from the paper versions.

As long as I see that my kid understands and can demonstrate responsible limits, apps are fine.

The only thing I require is that device usage has a purpose (ie write what you are going to do down) and is not just a distraction.

I don't have a policy for a personal device, but if most of time spent is with parents or or at school, they don't need one. I'm probably thinking middle or high school at least.

As a child brought up by screens, I've never believed that screen time is a problem, so much as what's on the screens.

I wish I could find the clever comment from the parent who talked about "playing defence" with smart phones, which this thread is about, vs "playing offence", finding competing interests and distractions! I try to "play offence" and do trips and social things. But our capitalist hellscape makes it hard for other parents to get that time. So we look for total control or total abstinence, right? I am just optimistic about technology and want my kids to be masters of it.

So my 10yo has had mostly free rein of a laptop & phone since he was about 5, maybe a bit of TV and kids Youtube channels before then. He was reading before 24 months and is a bit of a sponge (& parrot) for whatever he finds interesting. We have lots of weird and interesting conversations about internet culture. I wish he was more interested in long-form things, but he gets great reports from school, so I have no concerns about his ability to learn.

I see his various internet histories, and I've quietly poked on some parental controls: YouTube time limits on long days, or blocking obnoxious bro channels. He likes to draw, spend time with his family, organise play with his friends, but he's published Roblox games too. I spent a lot of time helping him understand addiction, loot crates, pay-to-win and algorithmic horrors (particularly during the pandemic). It took a few months but he's worked out how to deal with all of that - I guess that's a "better under my roof" policy.

My 4yo has a tablet, no particular restrictions but she can kindof forget about it for days in a way that my 10yo wouldn't. She's learning about boring games that suck until you pay for a subscription, and has learned why flicking between new games every single day isn't actually fun. She is just as capable of changing content on YT Kids but sticks with videos. Unlike the 10yo she likes watching long movies, particularly musicals where she will rewind and learn songs. Again I block the odd obnoxious channels: product placement, gender stereotypes, whiny voices or just general artistic bankruptcy.

So (on this thread anyway) it looks like I'm in a minority in being laissez-faire, a little reactive maybe. There are potential harms but I think I'm active and knowledgeable enough to keep them at bay.

Kids are 11 and 15. Both have phones, laptops and share a switch and Quest. No limits. They watch and play as much as they want so long as they do homework, maintain hygiene and get some physical and social activity. They're both healthy and well-adjusted. My oldest is at an elite STEM school, younger one is doing well enough. The STEM kid in particular, they literally use their phones in class. Teachers tell them to look things up, use calculators, text classmates for group projects, find links on Google Classroom or watch lectures on YouTube. The war on phones is over and phones have won.

There are, in fact, studies showing that smart phone usage isn't bad:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/17/technology/kids-smartphon...

There was a book written a few years ago and I wish I could remember the name of it, but it was about the effect of devices on children. The takeaway is they don't learn to read people's expressions and get easily offended, they don't develop healthy skills for in-person relationships, and they don't develop passive learning skills. I fear remote work has the same effect.

My oldest was born two weeks after the first iPhone was announced. When she was 7 I let her buy an iPod (the one that looked like a thin iPhone) after she saved half the money.

My son is about 18 months younger and I did the same for an iPad Mini when he saved up for it.

They've been very responsible with their devices and we have talked about the potential dangers. Still, if I were to do it all over again, they wouldn't have touched those devices until they were 14. To this day I question how badly even I need one.

My kids (11 and 13) both have iPads and laptops but neither has a SIM. My eldest daughter has an Apple Watch SE which had cellular connection and a Nokia 4G phone. She can have a real phone when she is 15. We have apple family set up with screen time password requests for all apps. There are some struggles but by and large they are pretty good.

I'm in midtown Manhattan, in a very small apartment, so the kid has been under our noses until now. He's 14.5, Iphone XR and his own self assembled gaming rig, almost no restrictions. He's a nearly straight A student, he chose to avoid the big magnet schools and is going to a cool collaborative public High School that Steve Wozniack funded thirty some years ago. I was born in 68 the Mrs in 65, so I understand what he's doing she doesn't almost at all, it's like we are from different generations. I spent lots of time watching him use tech, including watching what he watches on Youtube and what games he plays. I only placed soft limits on like I didn't want him playing war games and the like, that has softened a little as he and his crew go on GTA missions sometimes. We actually know his peer group from scouts, school, and a few get togethers, and one freind of a friend has famous parents so no contact with those parents other than a few text msg when that dad took his kid and my son to Great Adventure on a Vip thing, which is an incredible value, we've met the rest of the parents. I even got his Discord ID and have his Mom on there too, so we all have both ways to be in contact. We did severely limit TV his first few years. Funniest moment was during some live thing he asked to forward through the commercials. We gave him a button phone in maybe 2nd or 3rd grade when he started having a button phone for contacting us. He started with a LeapSomething with the buttons. maybe a couple of grades later he started using a laptop independently. Funniest moment was in Kindergarten he was in the side room with the computer and asked "how do you spell gold & silver", he was searching for a specific chess set he'd seen at school. Grades later I guided him on a research project, in 5th grade all the kids in the state do Native Americans. I guided him to research the Lenapie as they were the local group, including where I grew up, so he was able to do something different than most of the kids. He did the work I just guided the information search. He's been using the library his whole life and is aware of it's use as far a serendipity of being around things you aren't actually looking and the reference sections go. Mom covered the basic safety like no stranger will reasonably need your help or have anything good to offer you. She pushed the independence thing, where she left him a Union Square NYC playground while she shopped the green market. We had him take the bus to elementary school and signed the waver to let him off at like 8 years old, the bus driver had never seen the waver even once. the stop was around the corner from us no streets to cross, and he'd hang with a friend and nanny at first but by 3rd grade he was walking to the stop in the AM and always coming home solo or going over a neighbor friend's. As to booze and such, I emphasize it's best to wait, as it can get him in trouble while underage, etc. I also explained that the ones who start with the drugs in Middle School and High School first are likely to include the ones going Skitzo and that it would be hard to go through watching a friend go down that spiral, he knows grass isn't some scary thing but he has an idea it will be best to wait. I suggest that he should focus on dating before he drinks and smokes as that is something he can't get a do over on, where he can start with those later in college or beyond. Mom is pushing the notion that street powders can be laced.

iOS only, strict controls on screen time

Got Chromebooks during the pandemic cuz they were needed for remote school. Still in heavy use for school but closely supervised.

Oldest daughter received a phone for her birthday shortly before starting 8th grade. We have Android locked down with Family Link so it only does voice, text, Spotify and email. It's working pretty well but there are still battles over excessive screen time.

My kid is 5 and we don’t do small screens at all. Plenty of age appropriate tv programming so certainly not screenless. But it’s limited to home and only in 2 rooms. We teach him to be bored but also try to carry a backpack of books and toys. It’s work but if you commit to it, it’s really not too hard. We’ve caved in and let him play on phone a couple times while traveling, etc. he’s addicted instantly and we have to say no for a few days after but we shut it down.

Whatever age you decide I recommend coming up with a contract you both sign. Start with it being too strict and you can always remove rules later.

I was given unrestricted access to an iPad as a 6yo. My dad would always be too busy to do anything so he’d give me his iPad (2) or his iPhone (3gs) whenever I’d ask with almost no hesitation. In retrospect, I do wish he was at least a little more strict. I could sit on a screen for 18 hours in a day with no intervention from my parents… but I wouldn’t. (my parents love me by the way and didn’t neglect me…I think)

I mostly mindlessly watched Minecraft youtube videos, lets play videos, and would occasionally play some mobile game.

Pros: - Developed my vocabulary by listening to adult conversation (commentators) - Became adept with technology by getting familiarity with navigating the internet and jailbreaking the devices - Became a fast typer - Was able to easily make friends who watched similar YouTubers

Cons: - Difficulty focusing - Became impulsive as having instant access to technology is a form of instant gratification that was drilled into me - Learned every swear at 6 years old - Discovered porn at 7 years old

Regardless, I do think I turned out fine. I was a straight-A student throughout my entire K-12 education, made plenty friends, and have maintained an ambitious outlook on my career.

1) I put manjaro on a desktop. Our first and second grader haven’t found the web browser yet (I need to figure out how to ban their accounts from accessing the network; currently, I unplug the network cable because minecraft is a festering pit of privacy violations).

They did find the games menu, which is full of OSS educational stuff.

2) Dosbox: The 1990’s were the golden age of educational software. Abandonware sites are your friends.

3) The parents at school recently held a bit of an intervention for the parents of the 2nd grade kid with a tablet, cell plan and youtube.

4) The switch is a surprisingly good product. Game builder garage is well done.

5) iPad’s guided access mode lets you lock it into a single app (eg; Kahn Academy Kids, PBS kids, etc). If that’s too spendy, Alcatel (of all companies!) makes landfill-grade android tablets with extremely good parental controls. (Google’s built in parental controls include mandatory account sign in and tracking, so screw that). This model is good enough (It’s $100 for a renewed one on Amazon). https://us.alcatelmobile.com/alcatel-joy-tab-2/

Gizmo watch has worked well

You can only learn through play.

Play involves accessibility, low stakes (cost of fault is little), freedom and some sense of excitement and arousal. Maybe a sense of community should be added as well to this list.

Early video games from the SNES era, the early internet, Linux, programming etc. all have that.

Smartphones can have that as well, but they give access to all the things that don’t have that, and it is questionable whether parental limits are creating authentic spontaneity that is necessary to safety also necessary to be able to learn how to handle with these things.

My daughter has a heavily locked down iPad mini. She will get a smartphone when she turns 45.

[delayed]

I’d say smartphone privilege should be awarded upon graduating elementary school. Unless the parents really need them to have it beforehand for some odd reason.

I have an 8 and a 6 year old. They obviously don't have phones. They've never used a tablet. To them a phone is for mom and dad to call people and a computer is where dad does his work.

We are very anti screens. And we try to set the example. My wife and I never check our phones in front of them.

I dont know how long we'll wait until getting them a phone. They go to a private school that tries to push the "wait until the 8th (grade)" rule and we're OK with that.

My kids are too young, tech will advance too much to know. I'll report back in about a decade about my policy around how much they're allowed to meld with F̵̡͇͈̬͍͈͉͛͗͌̓̂̊̅̓̀͆͝Ṟ̵̣̳͎̽̈́͘İ̴̛̞̹͉̲͎̿̌̇̋͑͗̒̅̚͜͝͝Ȩ̷̻͖͓͍̙̲̮̰̹̖̥͙̤̺̏͒̃N̸̛̛͈͎̖̩̲͔̫̫̗̲̆̍̌̀̾̽͐́̈́̓̚͘D̵̡̡̯͙̦̎̈́͝.

My oldest is 9. He has a used iPhone that my wife and I manage. It's is wifi only and has a limited selection of apps. He primarily uses it to listen to audiobooks, and occasionally makes video calls with family members. No web browser and no social media.

My policy is no phone until middle school (11). Even then I intend it to be strictly for family comms while away from home, no social media or texting with friends.

Re. FOSS the problem isn't the software, it's what they can access through it. Instagram, tiktok etc are horrible for self esteem, education, emotional growth.

Even with something as simple as a Kindle (which we don't restrict as much) I've had to drop Kindle unlimited because my kid was reading age inappropriate material on it. Children have very very poor impulse control and all that the online stuff does is basically exploiting that.

We show example by putting cell phones away at 8pm when at home and not using phones while eating.

I have 12 YO. I have given him both laptop and phone with restrictions.

YouTube = 30 min a day Roblox = 30 min on weekends General browsing = Enforced by Kaspersky Safe Kids with all adult content blocked

Total device time = 1.5 hour per day

Anything that takes more time, like scratch programming, school projects, research on topics, etc. is done on my laptop under my casual supervision (I reading a book and he using my laptop and filling his word doc with what he wants to write or doing Scratch programming for example).

Family link for Android works great. Kaspersky Safe Kids works great for Windows Laptop.

I can enforce device use time, content, app time limits, etc. Has been working like a charm since Covid days.