HACKER Q&A
📣 MarkDJong

Stripe is holding 50% for 9 month


I would like to know more about how Stripe assesses the risks around future refunds and chargeback.

I understand that there needs to be a safety margin and risk hedging but 50% for 9 months is going a bit far.

We are a small recreational property manager in the Netherlands. We switched from Mollie to Stripe earlier this year because our new PMS works exclusively with Stripe. Never had any problems with Mollie in the past.

We charge 20% commission for our services and pay out our owners on check-out date every month. Currently we have something over €600k tied up until April 2024. This is money from stays that have already been and we have to pay out to our owners.

What are your experiences with percentages withheld and the length of it? How do these decisions come about, what data points do they use? Are they able to analyze at all on a case-by-case basis?

Is there a change of getting this amount payed or are we f*cked?


  👤 Hrun0 Accepted Answer ✓
Some staff members from Stripe already replied that they are looking into this. But if you take a look at reviews on Trustpilot this (withholding funds) seems to be a very common complain, which is terrifying.

👤 gtirloni
What's the interest they are paying to borrow this money?

👤 lagniappe
Every time one of these Stripe posts shows up, I always wonder what'll happen when Edwin retires or moves on.

👤 throwaway232329
Stop using Stripe, this is what you sign up for when you use them. PayPal is not much better. Use Adyen, or a processor that doesn't have to squeeze every dollar out of the transaction like Google Payments.

👤 AussieWog93
For 600k, get a lawyer. That's ridiculous.

👤 drekipus
What is the alternative to stripe? I was going to set it up for a new service in making but with all these posts I'm not so sure.

A quick google brings up paddle, is that going to have the same issues?


👤 MarkDJong
Update:

Learnings: “Rolling Reserves” : the safety margin on non-guaranteed payment methods such as credit card, this margin is released after X days.

Mollie says all PSPs, especially after Corona, keep a rolling reserve with customers active in Travel / Hospitality.

Mollie standard is 20% for 90 days.

With additional info (financial report two year record with balance sheet, P&L, CF statement and org chart) they’ll look at lowering this to 15 or 10%.

No answer from Stripe on their take and no relieve. They asked for latest financial statement but told me they do not go into their arguments or structure.


👤 didntknowya
9 month is long. I thought credit card companies only hold for 3 months at the most so not sure why Stripe needs it 3x longer

👤 MarkDJong
This isn't just to air grievances publicly, although it would naturally be great if this helps solve the issue, but also to better understand the playing field.

We are building our own booking engine and need to make choices about a payment provider. Yes, we're considering Mollie again. For this, we would have to build everything outside of our PMS, which in turn lowers the added value of our expensive PMS.

The development in "open banking" software is also interesting. As I understand it now, this could potentially eliminate Stripe as a middleman. Is this already a viable alternative? Any suggestions?

As for risk management, I could imagine that, in addition to macro numbers and global averages, you would also look at specific situations.

In our case, I could demonstrate that we have existed for multiple years with positive figures, payment terms for guests are 20% at the time of booking and 80% two weeks before arrival, the average processing time is 3 months, and we can add metadata to track things for control purposes.

Currently, we already have €600k tied up, but if you had warned during onboarding that we were in a risk group based on macro figures, I would have been happy to provide additional information. So don't just let anyone in, but screen at the front door.

Furthermore, I'm wondering to what extent it is Stripe's responsibility to estimate risks and fully cover these for the end user, as opposed to simply transferring funds from A to B. If you wish to do this, guard that front door better, even if it comes at the expense of the lucrative pile of money being held back. But this would be challenging when wanting to serve startups?!


👤 edwinwee
There are a bunch of factors—we look at your refund and chargeback rates, then your revenue and how much you have in your Stripe balance. For macro factors, the card networks may also sense an uptick in refund requests depending on the product/service you're selling.

That said, I see your email into our support team and we're taking another look at this now.


👤 bcrl
Thank you for submitting your support request through the Stripe back channel support network. Your ticket will be reviewed by nobody, unless you happen to be extremely lucky and win the Hacker News lottery. Best of luck!

👤 renewiltord
Dang, $30k just in interest. That's a nice game.

👤 NonEUCitizen
Are you going to switch back to Mollie?

👤 stunncal
I'm guessing your account is over 50% disputed.