HACKER Q&A
📣 behnamoh

Do Americans write better software than the rest of the world?


I've seen a few example of software written by two independent groups—one in the US and one in Europe—which ended up giving drastically different user experience.

For instance, Microsoft Guidance (written by two people) is a framework for working with large language models and upon my first try, it worked really well. I was able to generate controlled sequences of tokens using Guidance, no problem other than my linter yelling at me for some minor issue.

But there's an equivalent software written by folks at ETH Zurich. It's called LMQL (https://lmql.ai/). I actually like its syntax more than Guidance's, and I appreciate their good documentation and tooling support. But... LMQL just doesn't work on my machine even though I have set up the env variable for OpenAI API key. It's a nice research project with interesting ideas, but it seems to be lacking when it comes to good programming.

I wonder if it's a pattern. Do Americans (or more generally, programmers in the states) write better software because they're more closely in touch with the tech industry?


  👤 raincom Accepted Answer ✓
You want to explain a phenomenon by looking at differences. One difference you picked up is "Americans vs others". The other difference I want to point out: written by academics/students at ETH Zurich vs. professional engineers/programmers from Microsoft.

👤 coolhand2120
I work in a company that has offices all over the world. I do find a difference in the engineering culture of each region, but the individual contributors seem about on par. The strong company/regional culture can have profoundly negative effects on a engineering team. My main observation is that both Asian and Eastern European developers have a very strong process/enterprise culture and the Western (US/AUS/FR) countries have a very independent/agile/startup culture. These two cultures clash a lot of the time and only one delivers fast so the business values them more. Individually however the developers seem to be on par with each other. I can find S tier people in Asia that are totally suffocated by their own engineering culture - which they embrace!

I'm currently working on a culture shift for some of these people and it's really hit and miss. Some of the people feel very uncomfortable doing things "the western way" and other love it and say so.


👤 rsynnott
… Your evidence for this is one tool from Microsoft which you were able to get working, vs one tool from a university which you were not? I’m really not sure how you can read anything at all into that set of facts.

👤 lbeurerkellner
LMQL dev here. A bit of an unusual way of getting highlighted on here, I must say.

I am sorry to hear that you have issues installing LMQL. We are working very hard on LMQL, to make it as seamless and accessible as possible (as you have seen with our docs). However, we are of course not a well-funded company and the project is open source and community-driven.

Please feel free to reach out (hello@lmql.ai or Discord), so we can assist you in getting started. Please also consider contributing to the project, to improve it with respect to the kind of issues you were experiencing.


👤 remkop22
I'm not sure what the relevance of your example is regarding your question.

Aside from that, how did you come the to the conclusion that the second project is 'lacking when it comes to good programming'? Just because you didn't get it running?


👤 smoldesu
> but it seems to be lacking when it comes to good programming.

That is an awfully heavy accusation for someone who hasn't even gotten their software running.


👤 candiodari
I think the difference is much more along the lines that the US is a big enough market (without language barriers) that it is possible for US developers to write much more types of software than you can feasibly write and sell in the EU. Same for Asia outside of China and Australia. EU people can write software. They don't because it's not worth it.

And of course, this happens in large numbers. The bigger the market, the bigger the software industry. But even Germany isn't even a third of the US market for software.

The actual people aren't different. You just can't achieve in the EU what is possible in the US, and I don't mean "become a millionnaire", I mean "provide for yourself and maybe a family". Especially since the US has places to live that are far cheaper than the cheapest place to live in many EU countries like the Netherlands, or the kind-of-EU Switzerland.


👤 SkyPuncher
America simply has more software developers. Even further, America has a few cities with an extremely dense number of software developers.

In my opinion, that tends to create far more organic growth of ideas.


👤 EddieEngineers
Empirically Americans are 17% better than the Swiss at programming ML frameworks

In all seriousness this isn’t something you can compare - so many more important factors


👤 yieldcrv
I would say that some organizations within the US have a more refined development culture, and there are a lot of developers within the US and outside of the US that aspire to emulate and be within those organizations

But you could just as easily get into an organization with a similar experience as ETH Zurich within the US, I would say that is far more common


👤 albertopv
Many counter examples exist. I've seen with my own eyes US written softwares, Oracle and PTC, that were pure shit. Qt, KDE and Apache Flink origin is european, AFAIK, and they seems quite decent.

👤 NicoJuicy
Hint: Compare budgets

👤 milohax
Betteridge's law applies to this article.

👤 OhNoNotAgain_99
Linux originated from Finland, Blender from the Netherlands, Siemens Germany, Beckhof Germany. VLC is from France, so. Notepad++ french again. Irfranview also Europese. I actually don't use American software a lot. I do use android and windows and Linux and apple but I guess the best software i use is European.