HACKER Q&A
📣 mettamage

As a dev: learn marketing? Or start side project? (startup skills)


TL;DR: as a dev, what's the most valuable skill to learn when wanting to become a more well-rounded solo founder and how do you learn that skill the quickest?

Some thoughts (I could be entirely off-base, hence the TL;DR): I have a side project in mind. I know nothing about marketing other than some basic ideas (I think I read half of the book Traction at one point?).

I was wondering, should I:

1. Learn marketing

2. Start a side project?

Goal: in 5 years from now, I want to be well positioned to launch a startup? What startup? I'm an idea guy by heart. I studied a master CS 5 years ago + did a software engineer career, in order to implement my ideas. In other words: I'll think of something that I find fun and will solve a problem.

Also, if learning marketing first is the smarter option. Should I learn marketing by taking a course, or should I take a side step (or step back) in my career and do a marketing role?


  👤 onion2k Accepted Answer ✓
I'm an idea guy by heart.

Try to lose this notion.

The key to success in a startup (apart from timing, luck, having the right idea, grit, focus, etc) is determination to see things through to completion. You have to believe in your idea and see it through to the end, where 'the end' is hopefully an exit of some sort probably years in the future. If you see yourself as "an idea guy" you will be distracted by the new shiny thing you think of, and if that happens when your startup is in a slump you'll give up before you see success.

You do need to be "an idea guy" to build a startup, but all the ideas need to be about driving the core idea forwards. You need to see yourself less as "an idea guy" and more as "a guy".

To that end, I'd recommend starting a side project to see if you can grow it without getting bored, giving up, etc.


👤 nprateem
A lot of people conflate marketing with promotion (i.e. advertising). It's not.

Marketing is about identifying the needs of a market and finding a way to serve them better than competitors. If you don't understand your market, how can you create a successful product for them? You can't, unless you're just lucky. And in that case, if you fail to understand the sources of your luck a more attuned competitor may steal market share from you anyway.

If you develop the product without understanding marketing you risk wasting time on something people don't want or that is strategically difficult to grow. For example, a hyperlocal events app faces different challenges to a two-sided marketplace like ebay, to a service company, etc. Even backed up by solid marketing it's difficult enough to create products people want. You can't just sprinkle on some magic marketing fairy dust after the product is built and expect to turn it into a hit.

You also need to understand your competition so you can find out how they're failing to meet the needs of niches. Or if they aren't and they're nailing it, come up with a different idea and move on.

If you're an idea guy, the most important thing to learn is to test ideas. That fundamentally involves marketing, perhaps combined with a prototype/MVP for ideas that pass initial filters. Don't fall into the trap of staying in your comfort zone as a developer unless you can find a marketer to work with who'll be the business brains behind your projects.


👤 bdcravens
Marketing is important, but like many skills, it needs to be applied to be valuable. All the books in the world won't tell you what resonates with your audience.

Start building an email list, and post regularly, 2-4 times per month. Don't wait until you have a product. Obviously you at least need to try to have a general idea of who your audience is.

As a solo founder, you'll need to have your hands in everything. That doesn't mean you'll always do the work, perhaps you can hire contractors, but you shouldn't have any blind spots. So round out your knowledge. For instance, if you're a front-end dev, learn to build the backend and the cloud essentials. (Don't use the idea that you can punt to Vercel or Heroku as an excuse - you still need a foundational understanding)


👤 fhd2
I feel there are no "idea guys". There surely are "money guys" - people who can _sell_ an idea and get investors, customers, loans, ... Those are important in my experience, and lots of famous CEOs are just that.

You can either become a money guy, or attract money guys. Money guys are typically looking for things they can sell, so that's one way to get one: Have a project or even just skills they can work with. If you want to become one, getting into marketing sounds like a good start.

I personally gave up on the idea that I can be great at building stuff _and_ selling stuff. My advise would be to try different things, see what you're truly passionate about, and accept the notion that you'll eventually need help with the other stuff.


👤 holistio
> I'm an idea guy by heart

Execution guys often like to present themselves like that, it sounds more fun, more creative, more hip than the grunt work that is behind every success story.

Thus, people tend to think being an idea guy is a key to success.

The world is full of idea guys, you just don't hear about them because that's not even close to being enough.

Be an execution guy.


👤 JVerstry
I have a CS degree and pursued a marketing MBA. To make it short: i) a great product with basic marketing trumps a bad product with "fantastic marketing" on the long ii) the product makes the money, not the marketing iii) one can't hold both a CS and a marketing role at the same time as business grows, you will have to choose one or the other. About learning marketing, practice trumps theoretical knowledge. IMHO: build a great product and team-up with a competent marketer.

👤 lbriner
It's not a great question and I'll explain what business is then you will understand.

Paul Graham famously said that success is selling something people want. Period.

A lot of "ideas guys" might have an idea that seems good but straight away, you will need the skills to really prove the concept, to refine it, to pivot if necessary, to take advice lightly, to understand the industry and competitors.

Once you start selling, you might need better sales people or no sales people. You might need marketing but you might not. There are two ultimate requirements for success: 1) You do whatever you need to do to make the business succeed (spend in the right places, change, stop doing stuff etc.) and 2) You need to be able to hire a good team that can make this happen.

So the reason the question is not good is that you are asking about a specific tool rather than the top-level skills that everyone needs.

Caveat: Some people succeed without being great; some people who are great fail. Business is scary, not everyone can do it and being tough and confrontational is a skill that needs to be there to deal with everything else.

Good luck!


👤 Oras
Start a side project, this will teach you more things than just marketing.

A quick list of learnings:

1. How to do deploy solutions quickly and efficiently. As a software developer, you will start by trying to make everything looks/works perfectly. Only time will teach you that this is not really required. Perfection is the enemy of a startup.

2. If you're going to build a product as a side project, you will learn than progress will not be as fast as you anticipate.

3. SEO, traffic, and building a network around you as some comments pointed out.

But if you'd like a book to start with before launching, I would recommend Value Proposition Design [0]. It will help you to understand who would benefit from your product and why they should care. This will be an ongoing process, but it will help to filter your ideas to make something appealing to your audience.

[0] https://www.strategyzer.com/books/value-proposition-design



👤 vertigolimbo
As a dev, think of marketing as a premature optimisation. In addition, if you learn the theory but have nothing to apply it to, all the knowledge will just erode.

I built 3 side projects without marketing knowledge. 2 of them have less than 5 clients. But those clients give me a lot of feedback. I am at the stage where I will have to either learn sales/marketing or outsource it in order to grow the projects.

So go for the second option - build something.

(no data to back it up, just personal, limited experience)


👤 mg
I wonder if marketing can be automated.

"Marketing" exists to bring the right solutions to the people who need them. Maybe that is something we could do via software.

Advertising is usually seen as a negative, annoying thing. But if marketing would be more efficient, wouldn't it be a wonderful thing? If you saw a box and knew that inside is a tool that will make you more productive and increase the quality of your life - wouldn't you want to look inside?

Could we build that box via software?


👤 ianpurton
Practice generating traffic.

An example could be a blog. Start with 1 article and promote it.

This is something you could do today, then you'll have an idea what it's like to do marketing.


👤 darylteo
Learn how to sell. I can't tell you how. I don't consider myself good at it. But if there was something I wish I was good at 15 years into my career, it's selling. Everything is selling. Especially if you're into building a startup in the future - convincing someone to buy into your business, or convincing customers why a feature is worth the price they have to pay.

👤 noobcoder
I think the ability to sell and close deals is the most critical skill set for early-stage company CEOs. I have noticed technical founders generally lack experience in customer-facing roles or closing deals will need to acquire these skills. I think you should possess a natural instinct for strategy, motivating people, and garnering investment in your ideas from others.

👤 shubhamjain
Honestly, lack of marketing knowledge shouldn't hold you back. It's something you'll learn eventually through hit and trial. No matter how good a course or a book, no marketing plan has a 0% failure rate. In fact, I would say worrying about marketing is a hindrance than anything. You'll start experimenting with ads, social channels, when you should be worrying about getting feedback and customers. The fact is business consists of moving so many levers that by the time you learn of all of them, you'll be 50. Let's say you learn marketing, then, what about Sales? Customer success? Accounting?

What makes or breaks a business isn't lack of expertise in these domains, it's simply focus and confidence in the problem you're trying to solve. Most of the times, founders don't have enough of that. If you think your idea has a good market, simply start talking to your customers, building, and getting feedback. You don't need more than that.


👤 omneity
Just a side note from someone who was/still is in your situation: there’s not that much in software/digital marketing, that you can’t learn even better by actually practicing it.

Basically get out there and talk about things you do, get people interested, and take off from there!


👤 jasfi
Some advice:

1. Find a social media site that works for you, and post regularly, daily if possible, but don't spend too much time per day. Twitter works well. Then build up your follower account. No matter which startup you launch in the years to come, a strong follower count will help your marketing efforts.

2. Do start a side project. You'll find out which tech stack you prefer and gain some minimum experience. You'll also come up against some problems you'll need to solve, and spend time thinking about those problems and how to solve them quickly and efficiently in the future. E.g. how to best implement auth. If possible implement payments, just to know how they work and be ready once you have a startup going.


👤 jononor
Learn to love the problem, helping the customer, identifying and understanding their pain points. You are already strong on the "solution" side of things - but you need to avoid just creating solutions looking for problems.

👤 ezedv
Hi!

First, congratulations on your project! As Onion said: determination is the key. I'd like to recommend a blog article called "Biggest Mistakes First-time Startup Founders Make": https://www.ratherlabs.com/post/biggest-mistakes-first-time-...

It provides an interesting read about startup projects and how to start making them.

Wish you the best of luck!


👤 sixhobbits
Consider joining a small but growing startup as an employee. It's a bit of a gamble, but if you find one that grows from e.g. <10 to >50 people in 3-5 years, that will be the best way to learn marketing (and sales, customer support, product, etc etc) which is not replicable through any books, courses etc.

You can learn what does _and doesn't_ work, work with and learn from a team (and hopefully a good founder), and then apply those lessons to your own side project or startup.


👤 rajatsx
As someone who is a programmer at heart, I have always launched new software projects for the last decade or so. Almost all of my projects tanked as I could not market or position my products efficiently.

Naturally, I want to recommend learning marketing if your goal is to earn money from your products where you can sustain yourself from your own products.


👤 marcopicentini
Marketing isn’t a problem if your product is good. You could waste a lot of time learning the usual marketing tactics. It’s way better to spend this time talking to customer and learn how to build.

If you build something people really want you just need to tell them that you built a solution and you got a client.


👤 jamil7
Do both, pick a few very small ideas that you can build and learn to market, don't treat these “the idea” but more as training grounds for yourself and keep them small and self-contained. These could be products that already exist, in fact that's probably preferable for learning.

👤 andyish
You've got to do both or find a co-founder that rounds off your startup team, in this case I guess it would be someone on the sales/marketing/commercial side.

If you do go down the route of learning and upskilling in marketing. You'll probably find a solid startup idea along the way.


👤 brudgers

  We saw this happen so often that we made up a name for it 
  
  -- Paul Graham
Before the Startup http://www.paulgraham.com/before.html

👤 leandot
'I'm an idea guy by heart' -> Who isn't, it's the easiest part.

👤 ssss11
Marketing’s important sure, but if you want to be well rounded and run a startup I’d suggest getting a basic knowledge of at least these as well: Finance, Law as it relates to your business, HR/employment, Risk mgmt.

👤 gumballindie
Why not both? Do a side project where you learn both marketing and execution. Learn how to delegate work for non essential components and how to take a product to market.

👤 ravagat
If you start at #2 you will eventually have to learn #1.

If you start at #1 you will eventually start #2 to apply what you learnt at #1.


👤 killingtime74
Or maybe find a co-founder. Of course learning is always good. I'm in the same boat so I have no idea which one is best.

👤 ilaksh
The best way to learn how to launch startups is to launch startups.

👤 afarrell
> solo founder

Why do you want to be a solo founder?