HACKER Q&A
📣 NalNezumi

Is IQ test a thing during hiring in your country or industry?


Hi HN folks.

So recently while applying for a software developer job in Sweden, for the first time in several years, I was given a pseudo iq test (raven matrix test) + some really shoddy personality test that resembled a watered down version (fake) of big5. This was after an initial coding assignment and coding interview was already passed.

I'm originally from Sweden, and I do remember taking those test multiple times in the past, mostly for tech jobs. (software)

But when I've applied to jobs in US/UK and Japan noticed that I've never even be asked to take those test.(but coding test ofc) As I usually do above average to average, even when I'm tired, I shouldn't be bothered but I do, given the IQ tests very dubious origin and Swedens.. Rather dubious past and awkward history [1],[2]...

I've been working with neuroscientists and cognitive neuroscientist for a couple of years, and while I can't recite their very well crafted arguments, they were all (independently) strongly against the iq tests and personality tests as pseudo scientific. But I've never known the reason why, and if it's even legal, to use it for hiring.

So after googling a little bit, in US it seems to be a gray-zone; if it can be shown to not be relevant to the job, and does discriminate against certain profiles (race, socioeconomic status, gender) one could be liable under laws against discriminations, was the closest answer I found.

And then the top search query returned HN discussions from 2012 and 5 days ago[3,4].

I know that there's different options about the test in HN from reading the above links, so to make it clear I'm not asking if the original test is valid or not, but if you've encountered any version of it during hiring stage (or used it).

I have to admit taking it does make me upset; Im from a mixed race background and I know that at least in Sweden, it have been used by school of thoughts that would essentially deem my existence to be a "mistake" so it's hard to not take it personal, considering that I've experienced people that share that attitude multiple times through my upbringing here. So I do have a negative bias towards the practice, for full disclosure.

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/37848

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Institute_for_Racial_Biology

[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35530815

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3772897


  👤 a3n Accepted Answer ✓
Years ago, when I was still in tech, an interviewer asked me how to time something using burning rope, or something like that. Most have probably seen the puzzle.

I'd seen it before, but couldn't remember how to do it, and couldn't figure it out.

I said "Just tell me the answer."

He recommended me for hire anyway.

Months later I asked him why he asked such a ridiculous question. He said he wanted to know how I think. So I asked him, how do I think?

He didn't really have an answer. He either hadn't thought that far ahead while planning the interview, or didn't have enough information to tell him how I think, or he was too polite to say that I really just don't think.


👤 FeistySkink
A Swedish startup I'm talking to has both IQ and personality tests. Same for virtualy every other Swedish company I talked to in the past. Similar but to lesser extent for German companies. Some companies try to hide it until the final interview. I hate all of it.

👤 gregjor
Too easy to run afoul of the ADA and anti-discrimination laws in the US. I have refused to take nonsense tests like the Myers-Briggs, objecting by citing the ADA, and still got offers.

IQ tests do measure something, referred to as g, but it's far from clear that predicts job performance. When CEOs and politicians have to take IQ tests and get some minimum score maybe I'll play along.


👤 pinewurst
Rare in the US from my experience. The only real exception I know is companies owned by the PE firm Vista Equity Partners, who all use such a test. The once ubiquitous Microsoft/Google logic puzzles seem to be mostly gone here as well.

👤 kypro
I've never had an IQ test administered. Wish it was done more though – although I'm not sure it would legal here in the UK. I've never heard of anyone else having one done either.

I find most of the objections to IQ testing difficult to understand. IQ is statistically correlated to a lot of things you'd want to hire for. It's true that some groups do worse on intelligence tests so I suppose it would "discriminate" against them, but those groups also tend to do worse on examinations generally.

To object to IQ tests you basically need to object to all forms of education which are graded by formalised testing. If IQ tests discriminate against certain groups then education probably does so to an even greater extent since educational achievement is often linked to one's IQ + socioeconomic status.

The truth is you're always going to be discriminating against candidates during the hiring process since that's the entire point of it. Given this you might as well do it in the fairest way possible and IQ testing is probably one of the fairer ways all things considered.

That said, I'm biased here because I come from a bad background and went to bad schools, therefore did bad academically despite having a decently high IQ. It's less of a problem these days, but early on in my life / career it was annoying having to try to prove to people that I'm capable of things despite doing poorly academically as a product of my background.

I would acknowledge there are limitations to IQ testing though since IQ tests are simply tests of general intelligence. It's possible to have a high IQ but struggle socially or with specific skills. So if you're hiring for a role which requires good social skills a general IQ test might not be the best filter. Most jobs (such as software engineering) also require a decent amount of domain knowledge, in which case a candidates knowledge and experience should trump their IQ.


👤 mystertea
US citizen/resident here: I've been submitted to a lot of logic puzzles as a web and software developer--asking me to solve complex algorithmic problems I'd never work on in the actual job; that has been pretty common. However, I've only ever had to take (what was equivalent to) an IQ test once, when applying to a job at Dish network. I was so annoyed that I quit halfway through and withdrew my application.

👤 yarg
I've had what they did not call an IQ test as part of pre-interview screening.

They also didn't call the personality test a personality test.


👤 tacostakohashi
It has happened to me a few times over the years, one finance place in US, one in Singapore. It's a minority, but some places that think they're special / "we only hire the best", etc do it.

👤 joshxyz
i've seen it at platforms similar to toptal (focus on top%) i think it's fair but i hate it because i score low at it, haha.

👤 JoeAltmaier
Never in my life

👤 lil_seneca
IQ is a thing during literally everything.