HACKER Q&A
📣 amichail

Are there 3D twisty puzzles that can only be simulated on a computer?


In other words, such a puzzle would be impossible or very difficult to make in a physical form.


  👤 whoopdedo Accepted Answer ✓
Yes, game designers regularly take advantage of physically impossible models. Look at this map of the level "5-D Space" from Bungie's Marathon.[1] Like Doom, the map is made of 2D sectors, but without the restriction that sectors can't overlap. Bungie took advantage of this to create an impossible space. The crossing solid lines are part of different rooms that can't be seen from the other. Only sectors connected with the light colored two-sided lines are visible. So you could turn left four times but be in a different room than where you started.

Overlapping was used in Tomb Raider III[2] to create a UFO that is larger on the inside than it is on the outside. (This had the unfortunate outcome where I was once killed by an enemy that was inside the UFO while I was outside, but the game thought we were in line-of-sight.) The original Tomb Raider games also used a trick to make the environment dynamic. When they needed to show a wall moving, or ceiling collapsing, or a room being filled with water, you'd be instantaneously teleported to a different map. Sneaky camera positioning made sure you never saw the change taking place. Teleporting is a common technique to make a map appear larger or more complex than it really is. One I learned recently is in The Witness[3].

The best example of a game built around physically impossible spaces is Antichamber[4]. You might enter a room, walk around a pillar, and exiti the same door but end up in a different place than where you started. Antichamber uses portal rendering to show areas that are larger on the inside than the outside, similar to the overlapping in "5-D Space". But also I think it has some teleporting.

[1] https://www.lhowon.org/level/marathon/30

[2] https://www.tombraiderforums.com/showthread.php?t=166545

[3] https://old.reddit.com/r/TheWitness/comments/47pr3h/spoilers...

[4] http://www.antichamber-game.com/


👤 dividuum
Other games containing impossible spaces:

* Hyperbolica - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1256230/Hyperbolica/ - Allows you to navigate a non-euclidean world. Good luck staying oriented.

* Miegakure - https://store.steampowered.com/app/355750/Miegakure/ - Not yet available, but the videos are interesting. You navigate in a 3d'ish space, but can also modify time.

* echochrome - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echochrome - What is real in this world depends on how you rotate it. A bit similar to FEZ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/224760/FEZ/)


👤 alpaca128
There's a really interesting video documenting and explaining the development of higher-dimensional Rubik's cubes and the partially successful efforts of constructing such puzzles in the real world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTc-rG-nunA ("The Quest to Build a 4D Rubik's Cube")


👤 ccooffee
Is this a categorical question? I.e. "is it possible to create a 3D twisty puzzle that works on computers but not in the real world?"

I can easily imagine a 3D twisty puzzle which allows self-intersection. (To be less cheesy, you could make the self-intersection an objective of the game, perhaps "same color cubes will combine into one cube when they intersect" and then trying to accomplish a final target 3D model.)

I cannot imagine a computer simulation being more robust than reality without relaxing the rules of the physical world (like exclusivity of space/extent). Perhaps something like the Banach-Tarski Paradox[0], where a mathematical sphere can be split into two identical-to-the-first spheres?

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banach%E2%80%93Tarski_paradox


👤 hcrisp

👤 dqft
Moncage - https://store.steampowered.com/app/1195290/Moncage/

"Moncage is a stunning vignette puzzle adventure developed by Optillusion. The game takes place inside a mysterious cube, with each side of the cube housing a unique world: be it an old factory, a light tower, an amusement park, or a church, etc. At first sight, they may seem random and unrelated, but upon closer look, you will become mesmerized by the subtle and intricate ways of how these worlds connect."


👤 guyomes
Quadratis [0] is a set of 2D twisty puzzle inspired by algebraic topology. It is mostly an experimental game so far. Here are some slides that give some insight on the principles of the game [1].

[0]: https://apps.apple.com/fr/app/quadratis/id1598700673

[1]: https://swissmaprs.ch/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/ParlierTurn...


👤 SnooSux
It was once believed that 6x6 and higher Rubik's Cubes would be impossible to physically make. In the real world, the outermost edges have to be a little thicker or the faces rounded in order for the puzzle to stay together while being turned. Nowadays they're widely available on Amazon.

The Megaminx puzzle is a dodecahedron, having 12 faces. Would it be possible to make a similar puzzle for an icosahedron? What about the stellated polyhedra? Or semi-regular polyhedra? There's no reason we have to stick to the platonic solids, right?

I'm no expert in 3d geometry or twisty puzzle manufacturing but maybe this helps?


👤 its-summertime
http://www.zenbound.com/

https://store.steampowered.com/app/61600/Zen_Bound_2/

https://www.nintendo.com/store/products/zen-bound-2-switch/

possible in a physical form? certainly, but you would never know how much the sculptures are painted: The scoring would be completely impractical for a physical version


👤 kevmoo1
Before 3D printing, likely. Now: not sure. Folks are printing seamless chainmail. Pretty crazy.

👤 neop
Puzzling Places for Quest is kind of like that for jigsaw puzzles: https://www.realities.io/puzzling-places

👤 klyrs
Yep, you can abstract the Rubik's cube to pretty much any surface

http://roice3.org/magictile/


👤 wlesieutre
Not 3D, but how about 4D?

https://superliminal.com/cube/


👤 dtagames
Sure. Anything from Escher. Or with a Mobius strip.

👤 macrolocal
How about a Rubik’s cube with Spin(3) rotations?