I am not asking about shrewd methods to lure someone into loving or wanting you. I am asking about lifelong habits that can make people fall in love with you that eventually remains stable and long lasting.
Rule applies here, work on yourself so that you're a better person to be with in a relationship. Work on physical health, good diet, mental wellbeing, work through any past traumas or bad experiences (perhaps with a mental health professional) so you're not carring baggage to future relationships, work on impulse control, emotional control and pretty much the most important one above all others, communication skills.
These things basically apply to all relationships, romantic, professional, friendships, family, etc and are generally good things to work on for your own happiness and wellbeing too.
Every day we have a chat like two friends. Changes from day to day, humorous or serious, world events or household events or gossip.
I wasn't super aware that not all couples do this, but as others around us have had problems and split/divorced they've opened up and said they've never really talked much, or they used to but haven't for some time.
It makes sense to me. Little problems turn into big ones because you never talked about them, your partner didn't know how you felt, and it escalates into unhappiness. Or (and I'm surprised by this, but it's been a theme in recent divorces) you never actually talked much with your partner and didn't know that they were a complete twat.
If you want shrewd methods, and hacks, it boils down to this too. Be interested, not interesting. Debate, but in a way that you want to know more and not to impress.
The next level is love. My favorite definition of love is unequivocal and unconditional commitment to the welfare of another. There's three difficult words there: unequivocal, unconditional, and commitment. Most people can't do that.
A lot of it is about yourself too. Handle your traumas. Unconditional commitment is the most abused thing in the world. But until you can get there, you can't really love. That's why many keep pets, because pets can't exploit that love.
“Say what you mean” by Oren Jay Sofer changed my life. Learning to actually, well, say what I was trying to say, to be facetious.
It was mind blowing to realise I was actually sending out completely contradictory messages.
NVC by Marshall Rosenberg is also good, but Sofer covers it.
I had, along with most I would say, unconsciously learnt a kind of domination language from the world around me growing up. Always trying to be right, using the aesthetic of logic and creating sides.
Learning to lead with curiosity, to actually listen to the other person was saying and think about it before responding to what they were saying instead of the concurrent Monolog of what I though they were saying was wiiiiiild.
I gained close friends in a way I always craved, I grew and and still growing closer to my partner. I calmed down a LOT, arguing less after realising I neither needed to win nor disagree.
I’m a fanboy, it’s life changing stuff.
Another parallel track was learning to be a more interesting person. I had sort of relaxed into dyadic life, looking to my partner for entertainment, sort of blaming them when I was unhappy or bored. Finding stuff to do on my own helped majorly. Hobbies and clubs, finding things I enjoyed others respected outside of work. Building light installations for music festivals in my case.
For women generally they have opportunities they aren't aware of or don't consider for one reason or another, for them I suggest they take the best one available and try to make it work for a while, often they find those deal breakers they had don't really matter. Also dont pretend to be into things because you think men like them, we know and it's feels like that overly enthusatistic girlfriend meme, having a legitimate interest is great though just don't be a poser. Lastly avoid older men, they probably aren't serious, see the men's advice for more details.
For men I first ask how old they are and if they say "early twenties" I clue them in on the fact that it feels like every man is trying to date a woman in her early twenties. You are competing with men who have established lives, assets, etc and that's a difficult place to be, but around 28 something magic happens. Women start to want to settle down and have children generally around 28, and the men in their 30's and 40's who figured out how to date 20 year olds don't want to settle down with a woman pushing 30 so they aren't going to get too serious. This is where you come in, if you work on your life and are in a good position to provide for children in your late twenties you'll suddenly become prince charming to these women. Many of my friends and I suddenly found ourselves with attractive women, who were actively pursuing us around this time even though we were mostly striking out in the decade prior. In short, don't lose hope it won't always be this hard. If you are a man older than that, I can't really help you since that is where I stopped playing the game.
Instead,
1. Be the best, and authentic person you can be. Authenticity is not found by looking outside, but rather, connecting deeper within your consciousness. Various forms of meditation allows one to explore this space. This means working through layers of conditioning, expectations, and hangups related to this: beliefs and attitudes about love, beliefs and attitudes about success, what you truly value (rather than what you are conditioned to value), hangups around seeking approval, intimacy, etc. Therapy can be a good way to get help exploring this if you don’t know anyone you can connect with for wisdom.
2. Care for and contribute towards something greater than you. This connects what you discover about yourself in (1) to the world outside of you. When this clicks, it gives a sense of purpose to your life.
3. Give others a chance to know who you are, from (1). This is a relaxing on the psychological armoring surrounding (1). Approach dating as such, as a way two people are discovering each other, rather than aiming for a particular outcome or meeting certain metrics.
Falling in love can be a profound experience. However, I can tell you that being in relation, and relationships involves a lot more than falling in love. Any long-term relationship and life partnership is far more difficult than dating, and the expectations people create around notions of “falling in love” puts unreasonable demands on each other.
The advice I hear from couples who have been married for decades, particularly those from traditional Indian marriages (which are arranged by the parents), is “tolerance”. And it’s going to the little, stupid stuff you tolerate. Sense of humor helps a lot here.
This book helped me tremendously, miles ahead of any mental health professionals that I met. You can read the first two chapters for free[2]. It's also available as an audiobook on Audible[3], and it's read by the authors of the book.
Outline:
– First part: practical ways to build a better relationship with yourself.
– Second part: a better relationships with yourself empowers you to build healthy relationships with others and set realistic boundaries. The book then gives you practical & actionable tips to help you handle the interpersonal aspects of relationships.
[1] https://www.amazon.com/Soulmate-Experience-Practical-Extraor...
[2] http://www.maliandjoe.com/freechapters
[3] https://www.audible.com/pd/The-Soulmate-Experience-Audiobook...
Communication isn’t about eloquence it’s about conveying what each person thinks, wants, hopes etc which involves both verbal and non verbal responses. Not bringing something up is failing to communicate as is hiding what you want or talking over them etc. That very much applies in and out of bead.
Finances make and break long term relationships, it’s the most common thing for couples to argue about and can quickly poison relationships. Impulse control is a big part of this, as is communicating expectations etc. There isn’t a universal correct answer but they are many pitfalls.
Health is a skill just as much as it’s a time and money sink. Leaning to deal with stress and unhealthy habits are a prerequisite for a healthy relationship. This goes both ways, physical and mental attractiveness is dependent on both mental and physical heath.
Time management it’s more about priorities than scheduling. Relationships take time as do kids, work, hobbies, etc.
Happiness is a skill and habit. If things aren’t going well you need to figure a way to improve them not just push through. Planning and following through long term is important not just fantasizing about things getting better.
Chores are as much habits as anything else, you can change your habits if you make real effort.
You as an HN reader I assume are intellectually-minded and tend to pursue subjects more deeply than most. If that’s the case, and if that’s an approach you’d likely take in learning about and experiencing a better ‘love life’, then you may be best off seeing that as a quest or artistic endeavour rather than a pursuit for existing answers.
Based on your question, and specifically the wording of your question, you’ll need to form a personal ‘framework’ for yourself. I think the formula is thus: Read widely and off the beaten path. Evaluate your inclinations and behaviour in relation to others in a wide variety of intimate situations and in relation to what you want. Engage in sexual situations with others who seem to navigate sexuality well for themselves; ask questions and observe.
People like being around happy people. Be a person that other people want to be around.
Be a happy person. Doesn't matter how much you listen, or communicate, or commit, feel ... the other party isn't going to stick around long if you are unhappy.
Be happy.
1) Learn emotional vulnerability. This makes love and emotional depth in a relationship possible. It also shows confidence and strength as it can be scary. Models by Mark Manson is a great book on this.
2) Learn social skills to manage conflicts and set boundaries, e.g. assertive communication.
3) Deal with your emotional issues, e.g. with therapy.
4) Be attractive and take care of your body. Regular weight training, a healthy diet, dressing well, and grooming well can really transform your physical attractiveness. Spend time really learning these things, and consider hiring experts to teach you, e.g. a fitness coach. None of the emotional or social things above will help if your partner isn’t physically attracted to you.
5) Get good at sex. This depends a lot on what you want, and what the person you are dating wants… and can be taboo to talk about. But in my experience most (but not all) straight women want a partner to be surprisingly dominant and aggressive.
Ultimately all of these just amount to being emotionally and physically healthy.
I had a lot of anxiety about my attractiveness going back on the dating market after ending a 20 year relationship, but I had been working hard on the above things for years. I was surprised to find that, as a middle aged man, I really stood out as a desirable partner, and dating was a really enjoyable experience.
A relationship is, at its core, a friendship. It is NOT, I repeat, it is ABSOLUTELY NOT an obligation. Nobody owes you a fucking thing, ever. Yes, even if you do something nice for them. Until you can truly think this way, it's not going to work.
You can read some books too or whatever, but please don't use "I read a book on love" as a crutch for actually practicing and taking these values to heart.
It's not a math problem, it's a human problem, and humans aren't some logical puzzle with an answer. Enjoy the ride.
Let's not fall into the fallacy of human relationship. Let's do what we, as humans, not simple animals, are supposed to achieve ultimately: to understand, conquer and break through the laws of universe. In that perspective, we do build relationship but not on love or family. Instead we build on a common noble goal.
2. Love isn't about "falling". What people call "falling in love" is romance. Romance, while not a bad thing and arguably even a nice thing, is not the same thing as love. The function of romance is to easy people toward a committed relationship and procreation.
3. Romance is emotional. While emotions are appropriate to love, they are not love themselves. Love is not an essentially emotional phenomenon. Those who view love this way are condemned to a life of miserable and lonely self-indulgence. Incidentally, marriages of convenience can be more successful, i.e., because of the absence of excessive romantic expectation.
4. Love is about willing the objective good of the other. Not wishing, but willing. Willing the good of the other means living for the good of the other. That is something we can choose, as opposed to emotions which are volatile and changing.
5. Willing presupposes knowing as we cannot love what we do not know.
6. The capacity to love isn't a "skill set". It's a matter of character. Selfish and transactional people cannot love.
7. Character is a matter of virtue.
8. Relationships are rooted in a common good which is prioritized over the personal or private good (which, perhaps paradoxically, depend on that common good). Otherwise, there is no relationship.
9. Relationships mean sacrificing for the other, for the common good which has primacy over each person's personal or private good. Perhaps another paradox: we find ourselves in 'losing' ourselves.
10. Perfect love casts out all fear. Fear is rooted in the prospect of personal or private loss. By willing the good of the other, you overcome selfishness and thus the fear of loss.
11. The other in the relationship is a person, like you, not an instrument to be used for your satisfaction or your happiness. Instrumentalizing the other leads to misery.
12. Despite our contemporary egalitarian biases and sentiments, sex differences do translate into sex-determined duties and relations. Failing to respect them leads to discord, confusion, disharmony, and even grievance.
13. While we have no duty to marry, once married, we have voluntarily assumed duties which are now binding for life.
14. Marriage is committing. Shacking up is noncommittal and therefore unloving, rooted as it is in selfish opportunism, the desire for an "escape hatch".
People have no problem swiping literally every person on Tinder/bumble but I have had lovers specifically tell me that no one ever hits on them in person. "Hitting" on them meaning starting exactly the same "get to know you" conversation in person that would be done on a dating app.
There is literally this dating app called "real life" that all single people are on but 99% of suitors are blindly swiping left no matter what.
Don’t know how much this plays into the long-term aspect, but I figure the easier it is for you to meet people, the easier it will be to meet someone who matches you.
It's official! People here dont even read past the title! "I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!"
But yeah, you may have unnecessarily low self esteem to think you need to make someone love you. Stop forcing it like it's something you are owed. It is lucky to find someone who loves you. Treat it with the respect it deserves and it should follow naturally from there. Treat it like a game and you will always lose.
More practically, (assuming American norms, hetero-male-ish situation),
- learn to play your favorite song on guitar. playing music can be a powerful way to communicate emotion when you lack the confidence to be emotional otherwise.
- study classic standup comedy like Carlin or Robin Williams. Comedy helps us relate to each other.
- practice good self care. being alone doesnt have to be lonely or miserable.
- if you have trouble being present with people, consider talking to a therapist.
The common theme is that there is very little you can do to directly make someone love you. But if you learn to love yourself, you will at least have some practice for if/when the real deal comes along.
Also there is a saying which goes in the direction: to love, to hate, or not to care. It's great to love, sometimes there can be hate/anger/disagreement, but you know the relationship needs work if you stop caring about each other in certain situations. So whenever one falls into 3, it's time to think, talk and do something. It's not always critical, but it shows an absence of attention for each other.
And my grandmother used to say, sometimes you can be very angry at each other, it's important to discuss it thoroughly, maybe even loud, and then leave it there and go on.
Basically, be a better person (internally! Start by being kinder to yourself! It’s really hard!)
Then work on communicating that to others. Yes, external attributes (attractiveness, fitness, wealth) matter insofar they’re the first thing(s) others notice about you. Both having options (actual abundance) and knowing you have options (abundance mentally) are extremely important.
If you want a book thrn Attached by Levine and Heller is a useful book that concentrates on practical understanding and concepts. Recommended.
The quality and intimacy of my relationships (both romantic and interpersonal) before and after I stopped consuming pornography is night-and-day.
This is something that you can do which will remain stable and long lasting for the rest of your life, and it has amplified my ability to love and to receive love immeasurably.
Well, no, but:
1) Figure out who you are and what is appropriate for you, especially in the context of your values and your behaviors. Do the kinds of things that naturally emerge from that perspective and let the other sovereign individuals do their kinds of things and let it sort itself out.
2) Be the type of person who does the kinds of things that desirable-to-you people find attractive and lovable until they notice and you build a reputation for it and you enter into the kind of relationship that naturally occurs within this context.
Intermingle some heartache and heartbreak and hold on loosely, don't let go, la la la.
Any specific advice anyone gives you has a very high probability of being inapplicable to your unique circumstance. Following it has a very high probability of wasting your time, although perhaps you will eventually learn the lesson of not taking other people's advice about how to be/do/fulfill...you.
I'm still learning to volunteer more, without them having to prompt me for it.
Yes some things are hard to hear from your partner. Be accepting, and expect the same from them.
Some key takeaways:
- Stability and centeredness of your own life is the key to a healthy love life
- Learn about both alpha and beta traits, master both
- It‘s impossible to make exactly one woman in your life desire you. It‘s either zero or many.
- Fitness is not optional. Don‘t assume any success if you don‘t lift
[seriously, think of it like hardcore bug fixing so you can have production stability, performance tweaks and less maintenance burden]
Love is about commitment.
This is not structured.
Use meditation to learn about love as a skill (metta, tonglen). Read Search Inside Yourself. Become more altruistic, less egocentric, more equanimous and more sensitive to the own sensations in your body. See dhamma.org
Also screen for if you have compatible values (really do this, I see so many issues because some men are already happy if anyone loves them at all)
The biggest hacks are:
1. Traveling: it's easier to hookup so the hard part is done (making them sexually attracted to you). Now you can get to know them for real and be serious. For people that claim this can't be done. I'm living it, I might need to relocate to the US but I'm currently a nomad, so I can do whatever. Of course, you'll find party girls or non-serious women. Somewhere after making out with them, you'll realize that and can screen them out.
2. Social momentum: sometimes I go out during the day, cold approach 5 to 10 women and cold approach a couple of strangers to for social fun (I met a friendly music hippie the other day!). At the end of it, you're much sharper and much wittier. If you then cold approach a woman the likelihood of her being attracted to you is higher. Note: you need to be optimistic about the process, you're going to be rejected a lot (or at least feel rejected a lot). I always ask myself "what could I do better in this approach" and most times I see improvements since my social skills aren't that great. Such as: talk louder, talk slower, talk with a more positive tone (she doesn't know you and is a stranger you need to be positive in the beginning of meeting someone on a cold approach), stand up straight, smile, have an open body posture, do your best to make her day better, etc.
3. Play the numbers, play them hard. Pickup artists that say you can seduce anyone and everyone: lol, no. It's a numbers game and you can improve your likelihood of attracting, seducing and loving someone but we're talking about the 1% to 10% range at most. Become used to rejection desensitize yourself to it. Stay nice and respectful to everyone while becoming numb to it. Think by sets of 100.
My method:
I'm imaginative and curious. I've noticed that in order to be found attractive by a woman at the very least I need a few things:
1. A good or positive vibe
2. Something special, pickup artists call it status (bullshit). I call it something special because if she values that you have a crazy intelligent mind, boom, you're in.
3. Intent from my side
Here's how I fill that in:
1. I focus on playfulness, I find playfulness awesome. Banter is fun, being funny is fun, but being playful gives me existential satisfaction. So playfulness forms the (conscious) fundament of whatever good vibe I vibe out. It's either that or metta/love.
2. That something special in my case is I'm a fantastical person. My imagination is huge, if women don't appreciate me for it, next, numbers game, rejection, whatever. Talk to the next woman you fancy. I screen hard, because I know that what in order to experience a better love life I need fireworks on: intellect, emotions and physical.
3. Intent: simply say it somewhere during the interaction 1 to 3 times.
Don't underestimate meditation and metta in all of this. Also, when it comes to love there is little to no room for ego. Every time when I put myself out there and get rejected I am reminded of that. Got rejected yesterday pretty harshly, Tinder date. Vibe was awesome, intellectually cool, I found her visually really appealing. So I asked “do you kiss on the first date?” It turns out she felt more friendship. It fucking hurts, I (almost) always get it. It frustrates to no end. But I have to feel it. I have to empathize with how she feels about it. It matters to keep on feeling. It matters to empathize, despite my own wants/needs. Meditation helps to give those feelings a place by using equanimity. It still hurted, and there I saw my ego. Hello ego, no more ego. Ego went away (it’s all temporary if course). I felt at peace. Better luck next time :)
Relationship-wise:
Non-violent Communication
Even more meditation (anapana, vipassana, metta and tonglen)
Empathy (note: not always sympathy but always empathy)
Read the sex god method
Learn about kink/bdsm, even if you’re vanilla. Visit a munch even
Help others, like the homeless (cultivates love)
Help your partner
Have boundaries
Ask for help when you need it, dare to!
Be amazing at detecting shit from yourself and shit from others. Aka don’t walk over your partner and have the skills they won’t walk over you
More playfulness, playfulness forms like 50% of all interactions. You will see each other’s weird side
Learn a dance together like bachata
That's all I have for now.
2. Stop consuming ultra processed carbs, limit processed carbs.
3. Start working out every day.
But the main component is to meet people. Even the most attractive person will stay single if they don't interact with others.
No! It cannot be that simple! Yeah, but if you ask people in there 50s and older that is the common core answer to that question.
Either learn form your elders or do not...my bias is that I am of later half of the boomer generation.
Follow https://understandingrelationships.com/life-coaching-service... - read free book 10-20 times :)
Read 'No more Mr. Nice Guy'.
Invest in relationship knowledge as much as you do in other topics of interest.