HACKER Q&A
📣 oscgam1

What to do when Google is about to kill your business?


We are having an issue with Google. All of our email is going to spam (including email between team members).

We have a Domain reputation of 100% as per Google's own tool (Postmaster), and we are following all of Google's best practices -> SPF is set correctly, DKIM, DMARC, the emails are only sent when the customer selects to receive an email, and we include a visible unsubscribe link.

Our whole business is paralyzed, and Google customer support doesn't seem able to identify the issue. It has been 2 weeks.

Is there something else we should be doing?


  👤 AussieWog93 Accepted Answer ✓
>the emails are only sent when the customer selects to receive an email, and we include a visible unsubscribe link.

Just for what it's worth, sometimes when a company's marketing is really obnoxious I'll mark it as spam just to fuck with them.

If there are enough people doing that, one could imagine that Google's internal filters would begin seeing the whole domain, or some random boilerplate string in the emails as an indicator of spam.

Have you started manually flagging messages as "not spam" on mass?


👤 jerryu
Change the domain to use for email marketing only. Redirect it to main website. Just use it to send/sign mail.

👤 svillar
If all else fails and you want potentially better customer support, I would give SendGrid a try. I have had very good results with them. In a similar case, someone from their tech support spent over an hour on the phone helping us sort the issue out. And it was a mix of things, configuration, etc

👤 sli
> ..., and Google customer support doesn't seem able to identify the issue.

This cannot be anything but a lie, right? I refuse to believe that there's no way they can't just view some sample emails and approve it manually if it's all above board. I definitely believe they simply do not care. But unable? No way.


👤 hansvm
Check the outbound IP of the physical machines sending the mail, and any other potential identifiers in the raw email which might have poor or zero reputation from other parties. You aren't graded just based on the official crypto signatures.

Also, did that domain ever send shitty emails? Opt-out marketing is the most common offense I've seen from otherwise above-the-board businesses (no matter how justified you think you are or how great your product is, no rando wants to hear from you, and your paying customers definitely will be pissed off that they paid good money and still have to filter out marketing for the privilege of using your project -- you'll definitely end up in the spam bin).


👤 nickphx
Have you checked your domain against common blacklists? https://mxtoolbox.com/blacklists.aspx may be helpful.

👤 jasfi
Use an additional email testing tool, e.g. MailTester: https://www.mail-tester.com/

There are others too, many have a free quota that you can use a few times a day. With MailTester you can retest the same email after changing things as well.

Perhaps Postmaster missed something.


👤 mesozoic
Random idea try different service or server IPs to send from. Could be you send from the same server as a spammer?

👤 dossy
Send me an email at REDACTED, let me take a look. I can probably give you a few deliverability tips, if you want.

When you've sent it, add a comment here so I know to look at my mailserver logs in case my mail filter hard rejects the mail.


👤 kazinator
> Is there something else we should be doing?

Trying different SMTP providers, probably.

Your mail domain is something that appears in the From: header of your e-mails.

However, mails can be rejected as spam even without any of the headers or body of the e-mail being seen, at the SMTP level, and that could have to do with who you route your mail through, or who your sending or forwarding mail servers are co-located with in the same IP block. IP addresses which have nothing to do with each other can tarnish each other's e-mail sending "reputation".


👤 pomatic
Isn't the obvious fix to change suppliers? Google does not have a monopoly on your domain. A quick search through historical hacker news articles will turn up dozens of tried and tested alternatives to Workspaces. (e.g. Fastmail)

👤 pcdoodle
We've have the same issues, a customer emails us from a gmail account and we can't email back. Never spammed anyone.

GMail is not email.


👤 verdverm
Contact support, I cannot think of a reason email between team members using the gmail domain should all be going to spam.

👤 dutchbrit
Try using SendGrid or Mailgun.

👤 than3
Unfortunately, this is just par for the course.

Running professional email servers in business is an ongoing exercise in extreme risk management. There are so many moving parts if you don't have systems in place you end up getting fallout like this, and it changes all the time without notice or disclosure. Often at best its a guess, because these large providers do not tell you why, nor provide support when their feedback systems say nothing is wrong. Technically, its an FTC violation, for deceptive practices, but they haven't had any enforcement in years thanks to our congressional representatives taking a yearly salary of 200K+ and not doing hardly any effective work.

But I digress, You should have had your marketing segmented to a different domain from your transactional emails. Ideally a completely different server, but a subdomain works in the short-term.

This will likely be the quickest way to get things back up and running. Create a subdomain just for transactional, and start warming it up, slowly, (i.e. send mail to an account you can check, open the mail, they record these clicks for metrics, increase the volume gradually, make sure you have rate limiting; per day and per hour, by recipient base domain). Ensure there are no mis-configurations by checking with a service like Mail-Tester. Then start pruning your email list for people that do not respond an affirmative after a set time. Ideally you should be sending them at least one email every few months to confirm they still want to be receiving emails. Any non-response should drop them from marketing.

Additionally Google and many other large ESPs fight spam by testing against whether you are in compliance with the workgroup whitepapers that are regularly published. There are a lot of them, and they also weight you worse if you have drastic changes in volume.

The whitepapers can be found at M3AAWG.org.

One of the most difficult to diagnose issues from a senders perspective are spam traps. Google will automatically mark as spam internally if you send to one.

Not only that, mis-configurations can get you flagged regardless of what you do, for example like not having a correct PTR record (reverse dns lookup) because your ISP changed it without telling you.

Yes I've seen this happen at some local ISPs, and most of the people I had to go through to get that fixed were completely incompetent with no guarantees they wouldn't do it again. In those cases with little choice for ISPs, there isn't much of a choice but to set up a load balancer to run everything through in a data center that does provide that level of guarantee. Cheap data centers plans or services won't, and may block those ports. Colocation usually is more expensive, but if they touch your equipment there is legal remedy.

A spam trap is some email address that has been disabled for a month (rejecting email), and then turned back on. If this is your problem you are not properly managing your subscriber lists.

You may also be penalized more if your mail being sent by your server is not including both TXT and HTML (having just one is often considered a mis-configuration), or does not support list-unsubscribe.