HACKER Q&A
📣 startup_new_guy

What assurance do early startup employees have against dilution?


Pretty much as the title states -

I'm considering joining an early-stage startup, with substantial equity compensation.

I'm wondering about the industry norms, not looking for any answers specific to my case - I know I should read everything myself and contract a lawyer if in doubt when it comes to that. Still, hoping for some helpful background knowledge from HN about how these things typically work.

What happens, if, say, the startup is successful, and your equity has worth in the millions of dollars at the startups last valuation, but after your four year vest is up and you leave, the founders and board decide to issue new shares to themselves and all investors to dilute the value of your shares down to nothing? Seen in strictly financial terms, it seems to me that it would be in their interest to do so, aside from the hit to their reputation. And being no longer employed by the company, it seems to me that you wouldn't have any leverage to prevent this by threatening to leave.

My best guess is that the situation works something like this: As a Key Shareholder (>1%), you have to approve the issuance of new shares. However they can get around this, maybe by taking you to court for breach of contract, or by invoking some clause that otherwise allows them to bypass your right to be consulted to approve the issuance of new shares.

How does this typically work? Is it something that varies significantly by startup? Is it the industry norm that early startup employees are dependent on the goodwill of the founders and board even after their equity has vested?


  👤 seanhunter Accepted Answer ✓
None. Early investors often have a ROFR (Right of first refusal) in their share agreement, in which case they will have the right to buy shares proportional to the amount of dilution they would otherwise suffer (so they can maintain their % stake in future funding rounds) but I've never heard of an employee having that right.

Also note early investors often have a liquidation preference meaning they get their money out before subsequent investors but this also isn't something which is usually extended to employees.

You will get diluted beyond all belief. Not just by investors but by future grants to employees. The best that you can hope for is that that dilution corresponds to growth in the equity of the company such that you own a smaller share of a larger pie and in overall dollar value your stake becomes more valuable or at least maintains its value. It's worth mentioning that in the vast majority of startups this does not end up being the case and equity ends up not being that valuable. There is a very small probability of a lifechanging exit though which is why people go for it.


👤 icedchai
None. I was a key share holder with >5% in options. I was diluted to 2% over multiple seed financing rounds. Additional grants were issued to compensate. There were a couple of down rounds. Options were repriced. The company was later "acquired" for peanuts in a fire sale (pennies on the dollar) and none of the early investors received anything.

My advice: don't over value your equity compensation.


👤 Sloppy
Every new/subsequent round of funding will dilute your shares or options. If you have good management and investors, they will add "anti-dilution" shares when new funding is taken so early hires are re-incentivized. Stay on their minds via performance and make sure they know you know about "anti-dilution". If they think you are essential they will make sure you stay.

Remember that ALL early investors are diluted when new money comes in. For example the first Angel investor may opt to add more money to new investment rounds to buy anti-dilution shares. Think of your continued contributions as adding more value in return for anti-dilution shares.

That said, getting rich from options is a fool's bet. Take a good salary then save and invest it. You'll be better off and the risk is much lower. You are far too close to the situation right now to judge the likelihood of success for your startup and have no idea how many factors hidden to you will make or break that bet. FTX, Theranos, ...

The reason VCs can play this game is that they have certain advantages and they place 100 bets to one success. You can place only one in that same timeframe. Even they would not play that game.


👤 dokein
The majority shareholders do have a fiduciary duty to all shareholders, thus if they grant themselves unreasonable compensation you would have basis to sue them.

"Control shareholders have a fiduciary duty to the minority shareholders to act with 'good faith and inherent fairness.' As such, majority owners have a fiduciary responsibility not to use their influence to engage in self-dealing, including actions that are unfairly prejudicial to the minority shareholders."

See: https://ffslaw.com/articles/have-the-controlling-shareholder....

If everyone gets diluted for new funding that's one thing and you have no protection against that. But if the 51% just vote to fuck over the 49% that's very different.


👤 sn0w_crash
Short answer is none.

Everyone is diluted during a financing round.

Long answer: some early or critically important employees will receive grants after a round to offset some of the dilution.


👤 s1k3
If you aren’t a founder or investor then your chances of making significant money at a startup via equity is very limited.

You WILL be diluted during every fundraising round and you will be subject to lockout periods. You may exercise your shares if you leave early but you take enormously doing that.


👤 clintonb
> My best guess is that the situation works something like this: As a Key Shareholder (>1%), you have to approve the issuance of new shares.

"Key shareholder" isn't a thing. Shareholders elect/appoint board members. The board issues new shares. A shareholder with simply >1% of equity, say 2%, has no power over the board.

You, as an employee, have no guarantees against dilution. Dilution isn't necessarily a bad thing IF the overall value of your equity increases (e.g., the company raises at a larger valuation).

The odds of the board deciding to screw over one employee with a small share of equity seem quite low. The potential legal costs and reputation risks will most likely outweigh the cost of either buying you out or, what is most likely, doing nothing.


👤 olliej
I've heard/seen so many cases where equity compensation for ICs in startups were drastically devalued/"diluted"/rendered-unsaleable to ever consider a startup's equity compensation unless they acknowledge that an individual taking below market cash compensation is an early stage investor, and their equity grants should be the same class as other early investors, and have the same options w.r.t to cashing out, maintaining.

I've yet to see any startup do this though, which to me indicates that the intent is to scam the IC.


👤 Trias11
Like others said.

Equity compensation is essentially a legalized SV scam.

If you're an employee #6+ and not an insider - just negotiate a salary figure and/or work conditions.

Even if your shitty startup gets money laundered (I mean acquired) for 12 figures you are getting exactly zero of these figures.

That's a plan.

And startup lawyers smiling you into signing "just a standard" contract are getting paid big figures to laugh you out of the door after exit transaction.


👤 ffggffggj
None! I don’t think being an early employee at a startup has been a good value proposition for a while, maybe ever. Far far far safer to put in 5-10 years at a FAANG and then start your own company.

👤 gamblor956
None. VC firms like YCombinator pioneered the "liquidation preference" whereby the gains that used to accrue to startup employees now go entirely to the venture capitalists.

In short, the startup lottery is just a fiction now, perpetuated by VCs to create an endless treadmill of labor.


👤 quickthrower2
Mindset wise, forget about getting rich through options. That said it is worth haggling for more once you have haggled the salary as high as it can go.

The last time I got some, not much, 75% of the profit was from post IPO: so could have achieved the same thing by working as a contractor elsewhere for more, then buying at IPO :-) “But your a shareholder now you should put more effort in” they’ll say lol


👤 koliber
A lot of good info here. One thing to add is that in the end, a lot comes down to trust. A dilution aimed at screwing specifically you is unlikely. If you are joining a company where you have reasons to think that this might happen, find another company. It’s hard to get anything constructive done in such a low trust environment.

👤 ProAm
Ask for a smaller percentage but a non-dilution binding agreement where you are awarded more shares per funding round to maintain ownership level.

👤 brudgers
Founders who are ok with you getting rich is the only assurance.

Then things might work out, but the nature of startups is they probably won’t.

Good luck.


👤 faangiq
None. You will get scammed.

👤 msarrel
Absolutely none