HACKER Q&A
📣 MLwannabe

What is the outlook for a new career in ML or DS?


More specifically, I'm in my early 30s and have been disabled with post concussive syndrome and ME/CFS.

I've been slowly hacking away at a math, coding and ML knowledgebase in concert with efforts to increase my work endurance, with the intention of accruing hard, demonstrable skills that could serve me well in any capacity. I assumed this was the most robust use of my limited energy because these skills could be used in almost any white collar position which uses computers to perform repetitive tasks or intersects with structured and unstructured data.

At least, that was the idea x years ago. Now it seems we're on the verge of a centralizing and commoditizing revolution in ML and UX where entire swaths of knowledge producer skills will become obsolete.

Where will that leave people trying for either ML engineer or more data analysis focused DS roles? Or even just everyday utility scripting/automating powers? Can even the latter two can be largely replaced by hybrid finetuned multi modal language/code models. I feel a bit lost and like I have wasted my time.

Will only elite scientists in the top percentiles of skill and resources be needed or will the future have room for more pedestrian aspirants?


  👤 machinekob Accepted Answer ✓
I don't see anyone writing that ML/DS is a lot harder than a typical SWE and results are a lot less visible for a VERY long period of time.

A lot of the time you could train model prepare pipeline and test enviroment for 3-6 months before you get good enough result to push it into production. And it can get extremely stressful rly fast if you care about that, because not every model is good enough for production so once per year you could have as low as 1 or even 0 models that are working fast and good enough for proper usage and this can burn you after just a 1-2 years of work in the field (I know at least 4 people who just drop ML and go for SWE after 1+ year of ML work and all of them are a lot happier with classical backend/devops jobs).

In SWE after 2-3 days you can have small stuff working fine and after few weeks push your small code into production codebase fixing some stuff or optimising smth as there is a ton of potential in almost every codebase for "easy" upgrades in ML space everything is extremely competitive your results are "state of the art" or they are not if you want to upgrade model it better be sota or you would get asked "why we don't just implement/use ...?".

I still love my job but for sure but I prefer working with ops, classical SWE and deployment then model training, optimising and learning/collecting new datasets (I have 5 years of commercial exp in ML/DL maybe it gets better after 10 years or I'm just boring out who knows)


👤 throwaway298525
I'm working in ML, and to be honest, looking to get out. The place I work seems to be rather keen on deskilling, replacing custom models with OTS components, requiring everything be written in Python and so on. I'd rather enjoyed working there the last couple of years, but the fun is slipping away, so I'm planning heading to general web-dev.

👤 jstx1
Good reasons to move away from DS and ML - not finding it interesting, not enjoying it, having done it for a while and wanting a change. But this

> Now it seems we're on the verge of a centralizing and commoditizing revolution in ML and UX where entire swaths of knowledge producer skills will become obsolete.

this is kind of vague and uncertain, I certainly wouldn't plan my career around it. It's not a good enough reason to change career paths IMO.


👤 greatpostman
My experience is that it’s a winner take all field. A small minority of candidates receive huge compensation. They have good degrees and publications. Generally they make 25-50% more than a similar level vanilla software engineer. This is especially the case at top tech companies.

If you aren’t one of those, being a regular swe is much better. A lot of ml roles are using canned models, and increasingly so. Many data science insights are ignored by the business, or the statistics don’t work on such a biased sample.


👤 breezy12
I’m an engineer, late 20s, who recently received a pcs diagnosis and went on short term disability so far. Just wanted to say it’s awesome you’re being proactive. It’s a rough time. Hope you feel better soon.

👤 aborsy
The universities produced so many data science and ML graduates in the past decade that got me really worried. Swaths of people from all branches of engineering relabeled themselves as Data Scientists.

👤 cloudsec9
People who can predict things will ALWAYS be in demand, especially in Marketing and Sales. ML & DS aren't perfect predictions, but with good math and good data you can be right a lot.

What I'd say is since everyone is shedding employees that the next 6 months - year or longer, however long the recession is bad lasts, will be bad for all tech people. But as the economy improves and the recession recedes, good companies are going to want to know where to spend money to capture that growing market.


👤 apohn
>Where will that leave people trying for either ML engineer or more data analysis focused DS roles? Or even just everyday utility scripting/automating powers? Can even the latter two can be largely replaced by hybrid finetuned multi modal language/code models. I feel a bit lost and like I have wasted my time.

IME most people have a bit of culture shock when they first get an ML/DS role. When you learn ML/DS, there's a huge focus on the coding and mathematical parts of the job, and not on much else. When you get a job, suddenly you're exposed to everything else and you realize why every data scientist says that ML is only a tiny part of their job.

There's a lot of variety in DS jobs, but one of the things I try to explain (when somebody asks me) is that the real skill of every DS job I've had is "Taking a vaguely defined business problem and working with stakeholders to come up with a solution that happens to use code, math, and charts as the path to that solution." In reality, to succeed in as a Data Scientist, you have act like a Product Manager+Product Owner+Data Analyst+Software Engineer+Data Engineer+Data SME.

This is why so many attempts at "We can make your Business People Data Scientists" products haven't taken over. You might be able to take over some of the boring parts (e.g. AutoML, doing the parts that Data Scientists hated doing anyway), but I've never seen a piece of software that could tell the business users that they don't have the right data to measure what they are trying to measure.

I've even seen commercial AutoML solutions lead to business people realizing they need to hire Data Scientists. This is because once you use AutoML, you realize you need somebody who actually understands the data and the process to really trust the results.

If "hybrid finetuned multi modal language/code models" can replace what competent people in ML/DS can do, that technology is going to replace a lot more professions than just ML/DS. There's going to be a job apocalypse for lots of professions, including SWEs.

I think from a career standpoint, ML/DS is a bit of a mess because it's a new field and businesses are still trying to figure out the best way to get value out of it. So there are a lot of pain points for people working in the field. Compare that with Software Engineer, which is older and a bit more mature. But I still think ML/DS is a field worth getting into if you can sort through the noise of which jobs are good and which are crap.


👤 neodypsis
Are there more opportunities in the MLOps space?