HACKER Q&A
📣 throw100g

How to save/invest/deal with money?


I am a junior developer working at my first job as a software engineer. I'm studying in a part time model so I am studying 50% and working 50% of my time. I get my salary every month but... What should I do with the money? I am still living with my parents so I do not have to cover living costs, only pay them a little bit of rent. I never buy anything and I spend all my free time studying which I like. I have nearly 0 expenses. So I thought maybe it would be good to invest this "extra income" coming in every month. But where do I start? I know nothing about finance or economy and whenever I try to look into it I don't even understand how to get started because the entry fees seem high. I am in Europe, maybe that's relevant. I feel this money from my job is only a burden for me because all I do is have to pay the account fee to my bank... Highly appreciate any advice!


  👤 robcohen Accepted Answer ✓
Might be a bit US centric, but my recommendation is:

1. Read the reddit personal finance wiki https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/wiki/index/

2. Read The Simple Path to Wealth by J L Collins

3. Read The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing

4. Read the Bogleheads' wiki https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page

5. Use a personal finance app to track budget and spending (I use Simplifi).

6. Track your Income, Expenses (just the broad category), Bills (per invoice), Assets, Debt on a spreadsheet with columns per month. I make it easy and put the hyperlink for the source of truth in the name of the row.

7. My general rule is that I need to have at least 50% savings each month from combined investments and income. This percentage is more defined by what year you want to "retire" and switch from capital accumulation to capital spending phases of your life.

8. This is the step I'm on now. I'm trying to learn finance in a far deeper capacity, so I'm spending time to learn accounting, finance, trading strategies. I'll run various accounts with different strategies and see how it goes. Those strategies will fall under the "speculative" part of my portfolio, which won't exceed more than I can afford to lose and still hit my retirement targets.


👤 sokoloff
Start with something simple, like: https://jlcollinsnh.com/2011/06/08/how-i-failed-my-daughter-...

You may have to adjust it slightly if you can’t buy Vanguard directly, and should probably have more domestic exposure to whatever economy you’ll be participating in most throughout your life, but the basics really are pretty simple.

Anytime someone tries to make it seem more complex, assume they’re reaching for a slice of your pie. You’ll be right way more than not.


👤 DonsDiscountGas
(My apologies for any america-specific advice here)

1. If your company has a 401(k) retirement account match it's worth using the program, match = free money. They often have target-date retirement funds, just do 100% to those. Otherwise an S&P500 index fund. This isn't likely for part-time work but worth remembering for the future. Also probably not called a 401(k) outside of the US, but if you ask the HR person at your job they'll likely know what I'm talking about.

2. Save up six months of expenses in a savings account. Check around for the highest interest rate you can find. When you've done that, calculate what local market rent is, pretend you had to pay that, and save six months of expenses with that amount.

3. Open up an account at a low-fee brokerage. Ally, TD Ameritrade, etrade...it doesn't really matter just check out their websites and pick the one which you like the best.

4. With any extra money, dollar cost average into a broad market index fund (SPY, VEU, VTI are all popular choices). People will probably weigh in on which one is best, honestly the broad market funds are all correlated >0.95, just pick the one with the lowest fees. DCA: https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp. It's best if you can set this up automatically somehow.

5. Generally speaking, any money you put into the stock market you should avoid touching for at least 5 years. Which is why I harped on the 6-months savings above. Also the people that do best in the stock market are often people that check their accounts the least often. Buy-and-hold ftw. Which is why I mentioned making the DCA plan automatic.

6. If you feel like taking some risk (individual stocks, options, crypto), it's best to have a separate account for that stuff and it shouldn't be more than 10% of your main account.


👤 jdlshore
Because you’re young, the “right” way to invest is to automatically put a portion of your monthly paycheck into an stock market index fund such as VTSAX and ignore it for 25 years. Over time, you can expect an average return of at least 7.5% per year, which will double your money every 10 years. Some years will see big gains; some years will see big losses; but it will average out. You need to have the discipline to ignore the ups and downs.

Start by going to vanguard.com and opening a brokerage account. Use the website to set up automatic investments into VTSAX.

Then you can investigate @robcohen’s advice at your leisure. The important thing is to just get started.

(I’m not sure if you can use Vanguard from Europe. It’s a good place to start, at any rate.)


👤 PopAlongKid
In addition to saving and investing, I would address the "deal with" question by recommending you begin now a life-long habit of tracking your income and expenses along with the balance sheet of your assets and liabilities. Even if it is just a once-per-calendar-quarter update, try to capture your spending in various basic classes (food, transportation, shelter, entertainment, clothing, health care etc). You can also track your ordinary (operating) income separately from your investing income, since the investing income will be much more volatile but also you have many more years to recover from shortfalls.

Your spending may be very simple and limited now, but moving out, getting married, having dependents, becoming a homeowner and so on will vastly complicate it. It's useful and comforting to have some history on file to see if you are going "in the right direction", whatever that is for you.

There are any number of software programs out there, both commercial and free, to help, whether gnucash, Quickbooks, YNAB, or others that have been discussed on HN over time.


👤 lawn
Invest them in a low cost global index fund and forget about them.

That's the simplest and best answer you can find.


👤 cko
My favorite personal finance book in general is called The Psychology of Money but a summary of it is here:

https://collabfund.com/blog/the-psychology-of-money/


👤 toast0
As a young person living with your parents and having "0" expenses, you probably should keep most of your income liquid because at some point you are likely to move out and have both ongoing expenses, but also start up expenses (deposits, furnishing, household equipment, etc)

If you can put together a rough plan for the budget for that, you might cap your liquid savings at 6-12 months of ongoing expenses plus an estimate of your one time expenses. After that, responsible long term investments. Of course, it's not a bad idea to put some amount into long term responsible investing now.

Not knowing what country you're in makes it hard to recommend specifics. For your short term savings, you want something safe (government guaranteed if you live in a stable economy) but shop around to different banks and see if any give better interest than others. For your long term savings, you want some sort of brokerage and investing in a broad index fund of some sort; if you have access to Vanguard funds in a tax appropriate way, their index funds are more or less the benchmark for low cost index funds. Depending on your local tax laws, it may be better to have a locally domiciled fund, or an Ireland or a US domiciled fund. Ideally, you're able to use a brokerage that is low cost, but established. The US benchmark is zero fees for the brokerage account and near zero fees for trading ETFs, and a broad stock index expense ratio should be around 0.1% or less. That's not available in all countries, but look around and see. There's also plenty of US options with more fees and bigger expense ratios, but IMHO, those expenses don't get you anything worthwhile.


👤 augasur
Hi,

I also live in Europe. Here some quick suggestions from person who is quite interested in trading and investing:

1. Save few months of cash reserves to have freedom if things goes south.

2. Start reading about investing and ETFs and Indexes.

3. Start invest in small sums in ETFs and or Bonds. There are two ways:

  3.1. If you want to transfer and forget, you can try some of the RoboAdvisors, which will buy ETFs/Bonds for you with assigned percentage. I personally use ETFMatic [1] for couple of years without any issues.

  3.2. If you want to buy ETFs by yourself, you can open brokerage account. As I read that you are from Europe, we mostly use Degiro [2] or IBKR [3] here. I use IBKR personally. You will be safer with ETFs, rather than single stocks. One of the recommended ETFs, would be VWCE, which Tin short - tracks World economy.  As my colleagues say, VWCE and Chill.
 
4. Try to avoid single stocks, crypto and investment gurus and get rich quick schemes.

5. Happy and safe investing!

You can find more information about European ETFs on justetf.com [4]

[1] https://etfmatic.com/

[2] https://www.degiro.com/

[3] https://www.interactivebrokers.co.uk

[4] https://www.justetf.com/en/how-to/invest-in-europe.html



👤 thenerdhead
While most advice here is pretty standard, it may be in your best interest(pun intended) to read a variety of financial books to get a better understanding of what you can do with your money based on the amount of risk you’re willing to take.

Do some projections based on that risk and how long you plan to grow your money. Then build the habits and automate your investing to the point where you forget about your money while it grows.

If you have no idea what to do today, save it until you educate yourself enough to know what to do with it tomorrow.


👤 0xy
Avoid speculative investments like single stocks, crypto or anything like that when you're starting out.

Depending on your risk appetite, you may want to consider index funds from Vanguard (very low fee) or government bonds (low yield, consider this if you're extremely risk averse).


👤 paulcole
> I never buy anything

Start buying some stuff. Yes, investing is good and savings are important. But at some point, you’re saving so you can have money to spend. So figure out what you enjoy spending your money on. Do you like things or experiences? Spend some money on a nice meal. Buy nice clothes.

People who are overly obsessed with saving money are very unpleasant to be around.


👤 simne
For beginning, just read A Dog Called Money by Bodo Schäfer. Other things you could add later.

👤 ilovhn
Spend less than you make.

End of story.


👤 mamonster
It is an absolutely horrible idea to "invest" the money you have coming into stocks/ETFs. Literally. You make it sound like you are under 25 years old, and the best thing you can come up in terms of using your hard earned money is to (from your perspective) put it in some magic box that will grow your money at X% per year?

1. Contribute whatever you need to contribute to your local pension.

2. Save the rest of your money.

3. Deploy your money when needed by either investing it in yourself(health, skills, whatever else) or into an area where you have an edge(so computers). At worst, if you have some idea for a startup later in your life you can use this as startup capital.

My general advice in this regard: Passive "income" for people under 25 is a pure financial trap. You need to be making active "income" and saving otherwise. All your money you earn right now should ideally be spent on developing and honing whatever edge you have in the area that interests you. And it obviously isn't the financial markets.