What’s the unspoken situation with substance abuse by tech workers?

My personal experience. I've been in the industry for over twenty years and never worked in a place where drug use was normalized. Most of the workplaces had a drinking culture to some degree: beers in the office fridge, regular happy hours, corporate events where you got hammered with your coworkers. Over time, marijuana use has become more normalized, a condition that I believe more reflects society than tech.

One of my old coworkers was on meth for a while. She didn't really talk about it, though.

Not sure about abuse but I imagine many coders take nootropics to give them an unfair advantage over their peers. I don't take research chemicals or anything like that, I prefer all natural things like the Alpha Brain supplement. I've also found nicotine & caffeine helps with focus. Beer helps, but only at the sweet spot of 4 cans of %5 alcohol volume. Any more and productivity drops dramatically.

It's so easy to start drinking everyday.

You have these magical all-night coding sessions with just beer and music and you are getting so much work done.

Then you wake up later and later, eventually waking up so late and only needing to wait a couple of hours before you can start drinking again.

I was in a rut for a while, started staying up really late with absolutely incredible productivity and a feeling of not needed sleep. Flexible startup working hours was the ultimate enabler.

Then I got a headache that wouldn't go away, looked in the mirror and had huge lines under eyes, and I realized it's extremely bad for health and physical appearance.

I think people most susceptible to this are those who can't get easily out of bed in the morning, or take a while to get going with their day.

Nothing is worth irreversibly prematurely aging yourself for...people don't know though. It's a badge of honor but you pay the price.

Personally I haven't seen it, but if people want to do drugs to enhance their performance, why not? Paul Erdos did it [0] - it's not just tech workers.

Coffee, which probably the majority of people in the U.S. are addicted to, is a stimulant that we all "abuse"

If drug use isn't causing problems for you, I think you should have every right to do it (if you can work around the legality aspect)

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erd%C5%91s#Personality

I have adhd and i take a (very small) dosage of a stimulant at times. It has quite bad side effects for me which is why I take so little. I think the reason why it is an "open secret" is because it is not possible to be open about such handicaps. If i was open to my employer about my adhd I would have to fear losing my job, even though that is illegal. That is rule number one that was ingrained into me, never tell anyone about this condition. It's sad because being open would help deconstruct stigmas etc.

I don’t suspect any of my colleagues take stimulants.

I personally do. I find coding to be incredibly boring and the only reason I do it is for money. Stimulants help make it almost interesting.

I work in Manhattan, and have for about 15 years at various startups and software companies. Personally, I've never seen it normalized. Sure, marijuana casually for some people. But it was generally not discussed and frowned upon. The same with Adderall, which is more of "did you hear people at X company are all on Adderall and working 16 hour days?" There is definitely rampant semi-abuse of energy drinks and coffee though. Personally, I could drink a red bull and take a nap if I wanted to.

In a multi-decade career I only actually observed drug use (Marihuna) once (difficult situation in the company and the fellow just didn't care anymore); not counting alcohol during festivities (neither counting coffee or nicotine). I suspected it multiple times though. The boss with the wide-eye super-intense stare and unnatural, not to say, crazy, enthusiasm -- was that cocaine? The co-worker first giddy, later unbearably mean -- was that bipolar disorder or waning anti-depressant? Who knows.

I suspect this is largely a FAANG tech-bro thing, the combination of generous pay and management by automata

I hate the bar culture. I'm straight edge. I do not drink. Most people don't believe me. Going to bars where others are drinking is pointless.

At a startup once I had a boss who smoked marijuana in the office bathroom when the company president was out of town. He never mentioned it but you could definitely smell it.

Not sure why he didn't just take it outside. Or just do it before or after work. He never smelled like it outside of those days, he just really seemed to want to take advantage of the president being out specifically for some reason.

That's about all I've noticed, outside of drinking at company parties or a drink during lunch or something. I drink a lot of coffee and take several vitamins and a Zyrtec every day, that's about the extent of my substance abuse on the job.

"Abuse" is a leading term. It's possible to take drugs without it being an abusive situation. Almost everyone already takes caffeine daily and hardly anyone considers that abusive.

So therefore we should put substance usage into two categories: "abusive" and "safe".

"Abusive" substance use means that it's affecting either your health or your relationships. " Safe" substance use means that your life is generally improved and your long term health is not affected.

Of course it's a spectrum, not black and white, but it's a good starting point. Where a drug end up on this spectrum is a personal thing.

Marijuana, as long as it's not smoked, falls into safe usage for many people (not me, it gives me anxiety). Coffee is safe (again, for most people). Microdosing psychedelics may be safe. Likewise, occasionally using modafinil may be safe.

Treating conditions also falls into "safe" usage even when there may be some mild negative health effects - it's a tradeoff. One that is best just by a health professional, but that's not always possible or desired by an individual. I suspect that many workers who use amphetamines may have underlying adhd and they use it ameliorate that. Others probably just like the energy. In the latter case, as long as it's occasional and doesn't affect your relationships, this is probably ok. Amphetamines absolutely do have the potential to be abusive, but for many people they are not.

To be perfectly honest, while concerning from a corruption perspective, these substances might not be doing what you think.

Are you worried about any and all on the job use? You might be okay with an occasional drink/smoke/addy. I’ve met some people that work very well under these substances, even on a daily basis. I’m not saying this is ever a good cultural decision. Perhaps your a purist.

The stims actually have some stuff under the surface many people aren’t aware of. For instance, many people with cognitive problems do well with even hard stimulates, coke, meth, etc; they do well in the short term, but it doesn’t last. Modern ADHD meds are supposed to alleviate this.

Here’s the kicker. Millions (100,000s?) are being told that their lives are too good for ADHD, then things go to shit. Either that or they tell you you’re too much of a degenerate; just give up your career living independently, and move in with your parents at 30+. They have lots of patients who are wards of the state, that can’t live independently.

Discrimination towards people with ADHD actually seems to be accelerating due to these policies. The world isn’t black and white.

Maybe you were talking about conscious and problematic use? Are you worried about off the job use?

I'm in my 50s and have only seen the wine/beer/spirits crowd throughout my various jobs. I'm in the casual weekend wine/beer part of life now.

Smoking (cigarettes) was common to see 25 years ago, but now I might see one or two people vaping outside.

I'm all for better living through chemistry, and endorse whatever you need to perform regardless of rules and regulations. But I'm just an old hippie...

Thiel insinuated that half of twitter employees consumed according to this tweet, which I found surprising. I assume they have some data or hunch about it + some exaggeration. https://twitter.com/teddyschleifer/status/158860158856569241...

I try to quit coffee regularly as I get bad acid reflux and stomach problems from it but I always return after even a few months of successfully quitting as I simply can't be nearly as productive or deal with crunch time as well without it or wit matcha. Perhaps I need to try caffeine powder.

In my case though it feels like not using caffeine is not an option for having a tech career. Feeling a bit of frantic energy is the only way I can power through for 5-6 hours of work.

There was a movement in Silicon Valley a few years ago micro dosing psychedelics. There was a tech CEO who messed up his dose and went to an investor meeting visibly high. They canned him. I’ve talked to a handful of people who have tried micro dosing and it seems super low key like a mild antidepressant. I imagine micro dosing wont be a problem unless someone screws up a dose. At which point they should be called on it and go home to sleep it off.

I had a colleague who regularly took modafinil and was pretty open about it. He'd work for well over 24 hours straight. I don't think it improved his performance at all.

The only other software engineer I know to do this was into pretty much every chemical but there are people like that in every industry.

I worked in a startup where one coworker dealt marijuana and also there was marijuana smoking, but usually after normal working hours when most people leave office and only few are left.

I'd say marijuana use is (unfortunately) quite prevalent.

It's a statistically confirmed reality of substance abuse in our industry.

I posit 2 factors.

1. You can readily do it while doing your job. If you're in a factory with both hands building the widget or on a roof nailing shingles. Your hands are too busy; but with IT? 1 hand on mouse, other hand on beer bottle. Sure construction workers aren't sober angels, but they aren't as inebriated as IT.

2. The inherent negativity of the industry. Many jobs are about 'fixing something broken' and tickets and new 0day and we have to patch. Generally speaking the industry is something negative. When dealing with negativity dayin-dayout it takes a psychological toll which nobody addresses appropriately.

When these 2 factors collide, they feed into each other.

edit/ Sorry, didn't figure my posits would be so controversial. downvoted quite heavily.

...especially in tech companies.

Substitute any other industry, and your statement is just as valid or speculative. It's unspoken because you mind your own station, and you don't talk shit about your peers.

A old coworker boasted about abuse of stimulants and actively conversed with folks publicly about strategies to get your doctor to prescribe an increased dosage.

He was also very arrogant, pumped out features like no tomorrow but the code was always just barely functioning. Product loved him because he delivered but he left a wake of destruction for the security team to clean up.

Another person I worked with said he would never hire or work with someone who uses nicotine. It was even suggested that nicotine users "deserve" to be sabotaged and should not be employed.

You should see the kitchen, would make even the well-prescribed HFT teams look sober.

I strongly believe your fear is unfounded, the following perspective is from someone with an ADHD diagnosis who takes Adderall daily and has for the last 10+ years. In real life, I don't think I would be comfortable sharing that information to someone with your fear. People with your fear tend to have a very specific shared misunderstanding of how stimulant medications work and whether they are necessary.

The only time I have heard of "rampant" abuse of stimulants for work, it's been in online forums. To me, these stories sound as real as the ones about micro dosing LSD. I know people that have abused stimulants as college students to pull all-nighters in the week before finals. I haven't heard of anyone abusing stimulants after graduating, I imagine most people realize no job is worth abusing medications and taxing their body in that way.

I absolutely hate how I am made to feel guilty for needing stimulant medication, it feels like a version of imposter syndrome where I constantly question my own diagnosis. There genuinely are no good representation of the struggles of ADHD or the benefits of stimulant medication in media. The stigma that Adderall is "meth for kids" shows a severe lack in empathy or understanding of what ADHD is and how medication/chemical groups work.

The people I know, even diagnosed, in NYC finance and FAANG tier companies told me they don't want to use anything stronger than coffee for crunch time. With every stimulants redose used to push away tiredness, the side effects like blunted emotions become exponentially worse. Some of my diagnosed friends choose to avoid stimulants completely because of emotional blunting and other side effects that happens to them at therapeutic doses. Sleep deprivation makes all stimulant medication a lot less effective. No drug can help you recover the way sleep does. There have been morning where I fell asleep after taking my daily dose of Adderall.

People are more comfortable now sharing their diagnosis and if they are medicated. The stigma around adult ADHD is starting to improve but isn't great. Many experts in the field used to think that people outgrew ADHD as they grew up but studies have shown that's completely untrue.[1] There is still a very strong stigma regarding ADHD and being medicated. ADHD isn't visible and in the last year there have been people that have told me I don't look like I need to be medicated or I am "smart enough" unmedicated. To those people, me taking my prescribed dose is the same as me abusing stimulants. There have always fears and stigma around people requiring medication for mental health conditions. Unless you know examples personally, I would take anecdotes with a huge grain of salt.

Stimulants make things easier to do but they don't give you momentum or energy to start something new, that's still something you have to do for yourself. Adderall feels close to a strong coffee taken together with ephedrine or Sudafed, not meth.[2] In movies and TV, a character starting stimulants is used as a plot device to help them overcome and obstacle or as a source of comedy, sometimes a deux ex machina.

There's a shared theory among me and my friends. The field of CS is naturally more attractive to people with ADHD. Software engineering work is structured in a way that would make it easier to manage symptoms for someone with ADHD. Things like hyperfocus, a symptom of ADHD, can even make things easier to learn. I don't know if the field itself is generally more accepting of individual differences. I am sure there's selection bias happening, but it seems reasonable to me. It would explain why there's a larger subset of software engineers have an ADHD diagnosis compared to some other professions.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/13/well/family/is-it-possibl...

[2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9738532/