HACKER Q&A
📣 npacenop

How do layoffs in the US work?


As a person working in the EU on an unlimited contract and reading all the headlines about mass layoffs in the US I can't help asking myself - how is that possible there and not possible here? Are unlimited contracts not that typical in the US? Or is it easier to circumvent them and find an excuse/reason to void the contract? In the EU the notice period goes both ways - I can't leave my job immediately, but my employer also can't fire me immediately - from what I read here in the US it is perfectly normal to wake up and find out you've been fired. What am I missing?


  👤 spacedcowboy Accepted Answer ✓
Europe has much stronger labour laws, and a much deeper social safety net for people who do in fact lose their jobs. Almost all states (Montana being kind of the exception where at-will goes away after the probationary period of your job) have "At-Will" [1] employment, which basically means you can be fired for anything, at any time, without any reason needing to be given, apart from for a few carved-out exceptions; for example, it is illegal to fire you because of your skin colour. If your boss wants to fire you for wearing a blue tie on a Wednesday, you're out.

In many ways worse than the immediate loss of job/income, though, is that your medical coverage is usually (and by usually, I means pretty much always) tied to your employment. So if you're pregnant, or if you're on expensive life-saving medicines, well, you have a problem.

There are various band-aids to try and help people out when they lose their job, but none of them are particularly impressive, looking on them from a European perspective.

I'm a Brit, been here for almost 20 years, basically for the money. I would have left and returned back to the UK 5 years or so ago (having made enough to keep us comfortably for the rest of our lives) but the kid is in school, and my (US) wife doesn't want to uproot him (which is fair). Once he's off to college, I'm going to retire, stay a while on relatively low "income" to get out of the "fuck you" tax for green-card holders leaving the country, and I'm (we're) out of here.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment


👤 HeyLaughingBoy
You're missing that most US workers aren't under contract. You may also be missing that if I decide I'm tired of my job, I don't have to go in on Monday. I don't even have to tell them I'm quitting: I can just mail their laptop back to them and stop communicating. Eventually, they'll figure out I'm not coming back, and send me a termination letter along with my last paycheck.

[edit] While it's certainly rude, there is effectively no downside to me doing this.

> perfectly normal to wake up and find out you've been fired

I should add that this is by no means "perfectly normal." In fact, the reason it makes the news is that it isn't. Most people will have at least some inkling that they're about to be fired or laid off.


👤 legitster
> Are unlimited contracts not that typical in the US?

I had to look this up. This is definitely not a thing in the US. Why would a company even offer that? Also, the US you can basically leave a job whenever you want.

> from what I read here in the US it is perfectly normal to wake up and find out you've been fired

Maybe a cultural difference here, but why would you want it any other way? If I'm notified that I'm going to be fired in 4 months, why would I bother showing up to work those 4 months? You may as well fire me now and pay me the 4 months' salary.


👤 anon291
In tech sector... You will realistically be given a few months of pay and benefits and maybe a bonus payout (sometimes with conditions). That's really it. They call you in and tell you to hand back your laptop.

Realistically, assuming the job market is otherwise good and you're reasonably skilled, it'll be like a few weeks vacation, at least in retrospect. The times I've been laid off have been some of the nicest most relaxing times of my life, if I look back. Of course no one likes it and I'm not sure I'd want to be laid off in this job market.


👤 salawat
Basically, if you're salaried (Full-time employee) and an executive gets a hair and decides to pivot, then layoffs'll happen. Basically, it's your employer looking at financial prospects and going "We no longer have need of your services."

It is generally coupled with a severance package, which if taken delays your eligibility to avail yourself of your State's unemployment benefits. Many states are at will employment. It is customary to give two weeks notice, but not strictly required.

The U.S. can be a fickle beast.


👤 PopAlongKid
If you are a member of a labor union, there are usually some mandatory negotiations involved around terminations. Otherwise, you can quit any job at a moment's notice, as well as being terminated the same way, although there are often two-week notices (including wages) given both ways by convention.

If you quit, or are fired for cause, you are not eligible for unemployment compensation. If you are laid off for "lack of work", then yes.


👤 readonthegoapp
i googled 'labor violence in the us' -- b/c i've read before that the history of anti-worker violence in the us is basically insane -- worse than any other industrialized nation.

so of course the first result that comes up is _union_ violence -- against the companies/authorities. :-D

https://www.google.com/search?q=history+of+labor+violence+in...

at least wikipedia is not biased in favor of the people who own the country.


👤 musicale
They probably shouldn't be called layoffs - they're actually mass firings, usually to reduce labor expenses.

"Layoffs" implies that it's a temporary shutdown of production and that workers will retained when business conditions improve.