Alcoholism and Career in Software

Recovering alcoholic (2 years sober) here:

You don't need an easier job, you need to quit. An easier job will entice you to drink more and before you know it that easy job becomes hard. It's a vicious circle.

Many more people than those who admit it have a problem, but once you KNOW you have a problem there is only one solution: Quit.

Not for a week or a month, but for a year. If you can't do a year, you know you're _severely_ addicted. And severe addiction if it goes untreated will ALWAYS end in disaster or death.

Once you've done a year you will see how much of your happiness and resilience has returned and you don't want to go back. You might go back and fuck up again and then realize you have to quit for good, but that's a battle for another day.

Find help or check into a clinic if you can afford it. Groups helped me tremendously. See if you can find an English speaking one. It's not so much about people helping you with your problem. It's about sharing your experiences with people who won't judge you. You don't know what you're missing if you've never had it. Give it a chance.

Go and buy books. Some people swear by Allan Carr's Easy Way to Stop Drinking. I found his books to only help with smoking, but some prominent figures like his book on drinking too.

Get educated on the subject.

Most likely (99%) your brain hasn't experienced lasting damage YET. The damage you experience (trouble focusing and remembering) will heal over the next 1 - 7 years completely if you stop. Science has a pretty good idea of this apparently. (The drug has been around a long time)

So there are two messages here: Be glad you've identified the problem now. It's not too late to regain everything you want. BUT: If you change nothing you will succumb to the sauce and lose everything like millions and millions before you.

It's a dangerous, dangerous position to be in. Treat it accordingly and make solving that problem the Number 1 issue in your life.

The thing to realize first is that alcohol is more addictive than many other substances. And it can affect anyone. There is a pretty sinister in my opinion psychological trick that the alcohol industry has pulled. They have managed to convince society that anyone who has problems after routinely consuming alcohol has a severe genetic defect.

What other drug is looked at this way? None, because they don't have the marketing budget of the alcohol companies.

I feel like that actually makes people somehow subconsciously want to prove that they can "handle" alcohol. Like avoiding it is admitting there is something wrong with them.

But addiction is real of course. And regardless of your job it can destroy your life.

I think to survive you must seek medical treatment if possible and concentrate on a plan to stop and avoid relapse. I think this probably should involve some type of medication. But long term you need one or two other habits to reach for. I think a really key thing for most people is exercise or sport. For me, I really enjoy table tennis in VR.

What I have seen from closely observing someone with alcoholism is that they don't have a real plan and alternative activities or medication or anything. I think the hardest part is that the addiction will make them avoid those types of things that could get them past the hump.

But aside from that, just realize that all of the commercials of drinking in bars and standing around etc. is marketing material and not something you need to model your life around. There is again perhaps a psychological trick for marketing is that you need to have a certain number of friends to drink with each weekend and that drinking will help you accomplish that. It's nonsense. And just because it's popular doesn't mean it's not the worst way to waste your time.

Check out Demeo in VR. Very easy way to jump into an interesting game with people.

I'm 10 years sober. That sick and tired feeling is your body trying to repair itself. It will go faster if you quit entirely. There's a lot of good writing on the process, there's a good "pink fog" bump a few weeks in, and then its hard for a few months (ymmv, everybody's different etc. etc.).

As another poster said, it's likely that you haven't done any long term damage YET. But do consider stopping entirely.

Don't look for an easier job. At 40 it's somewhat normal to be outperformed by younger people until your wisdom/experience kicks in, but that may not happen unless you stop completely.

Good luck. You've taken the hardest step of acknowledging you have a problem.

I’ve been where you are. It’s a worrisome spot.

Cutting back is absolutely the right thing to do. You won’t regret it. Your mind will bounce back - the longer you’re sober, the better you’ll feel.

I’ve been mostly sober for 6 years, and 100% for 3. Things got rapidly better after 6 months of being mostly clean, and then improved again after going 100%.

I started to love my work again. Home life was happy again. Depression and guilt didn’t stalk me anymore. And my brain was working better than ever.

Don’t give up. The beginning is the hardest part. It’s worth it!

I'm 40 already (this year) and I might be a recovering alcoholic.

After I moved to UK, about 8 years ago, I was drinking every evening. I settled on 3-4 pints a night. No lasting relationships, just work and some more work. Later I discovered I like sailing and started doing that a lot. So it was work, more work, sailing, lots of drinking. I was functional, I've found ways to handle the hangovers, lots of hydration during drinking and after, found my "limit" - never actually got very drunk, just "tipsy". I was sort of coasting.

Then something happened and I discovered that being in a relationship actually is a good thing, had the "pleasure" to have my very first panic attack, a few drinking blackouts. And I discovered that I was sitting on the motherload of depression.

I'm doing better now, the relationship works, what I've read about how to handle depression works, I'm limiting myself to 2 drinks an evening - mostly so I can chat with my beer friends and not event every evening anymore, I'm seeing good things happen, I wake up earlier that I used to and the sky is blue (even in UK).

My point is to talk to someone about this, alcohol abuse might be just hiding something more.

Don't want to discuss this on my main.

I drank far more than this for almost 15 years. Quit over two years ago and life has never been better. I did decent career-wise prior to quitting, and a bit better afterward. I feel like it didn't affect me too much WRT cognition besides just feeling like shit in general. I was also worried about the neurotoxicity but the brain is pretty elastic in this regard I believe. I'm older than you FWIW.

Worst case, you’ll end up either dying(Cirrhosis, pancreatitis, cardiovascular disease, cancer, etc.), or with wet brain.

I’m in my mid 30s, and have seen first hand people my age go down with those - and even more so for the older generation. My father passed at age 49, and every single one of his drinking buddies have also passed away.

Unless you’re “lucky” and keel over from a massive heart-attack or stroke, it is a miserable way to go.

My step-father, a vet with PTSD, has been sober for 2 years now. He was admitted with all the usual symptoms of impending liver failure - but luckily managed to stay sober. He’d drink maybe 6-10 tall boys a day, and had done so for 10 years straight.

The mental difference to us, the people that interact with him daily, is very apparent. He seems much quicker and sharper, is back to being articulate in his speech, doesn’t struggle with finding words, and the list goes on.

I’d put all my energy and focus on fixing the drinking problem. You may be physically ok now, but what about 5-10-15 years from now?

As I wrote earlier, I grew up with alcoholics - from all walks of life, all with their different drinking habits and preference - they rarely get old.

I found that work and relationships interfered with my professional drinking career. I didn't really have to worry as alcohol removed both of these impediments. It took many months before I was given insight. A moment of clarity. I am a CPA and various PG degrees. I could not execute cursive writing or read more than two sentences at the end of my drinking career. My first job in sobriety was painting white lines on roads, marking out carparks and asphalting (hard). I found all those tasks challenged me to my then limits. Many years later I reflect that all, yes all, of my life's difficulties in those dark days were rooted in my addiction to alcohol. I stopped drinking, ten minutes, one hour, one day at a time. All my birth family have died of alcohol related causes, asphyxiation on own vomit, alcoholic cardio myopathy, untreated perforated ulcer with sepsis. I don't have to prove them right.

I think if your doctor is satisfied as regards physical and you've stopped drinking as a coping mechanism you don't need to worry about the damage from drinking. However your systems as described to my layman's ear suggest maybe you investigate the possibility of therapy. It sounds to me like maybe you are dealing with some level of depression and that is making you feel sick and tired as well as perhaps being the motivator for your escalation in drinking.

I am not a professional though so I'm not qualified to diagnose or suggest treatment. Your best bet is to get some professional help so you can get to the bottom of it and start addressing the root problems.

Delayed post from me - came back here to see if anyone had mentioned TSM and they hadn't so I'll do my infomercial thing.

I would highly encourage you look into The Sinclair Method. It's based on the work of Dr Roy Eskapa and a book called The Cure for Alcoholism.

I struggled with alcohol for all of my adult life. Trying every thing possible to moderate or stop - AA, hypnosis, strange chinese herbs, counselling until I was blue in the face but The Sinclair Method worked like magic. For years now I have been entirely indifferent to alchohol and and my life is so much better for it.

There's a subreddit with lots of info and support if you're interested. https://www.reddit.com/r/Alcoholism_Medication/

All the best.

On the junior colleagues: be careful how you measure they outperformed you. Features per month isn’t the only measure. Maybe you are thinking things through more or have more responsibilities or help others on the team more. Maybe your code has less bugs.

I have slowed down over time. I think some of that is not so much age but the complex stacks we need to operate with these days.

Also I have fatigue. That reduces the period of continuous concentration.

I do not have alcoholism. I have stopped alcohol though I don’t miss it (don’t need to be in a stuper on top of fatigue).

( Edit: Sorry, not meant to threadjack, I just thought it answered a question that might come next along the line for the poster or others. The answer to the poster's question is "It's withdrawal" Peace and love to you all )

I'd love to see a long-form study of addicts attracted to software development.

I'm an alcoholic and love nothing more than solving a really difficult software (or other problem). I think the two are related but likely not causally one way or the other. Probably just associated. But what would a statistical study do other than estimate your probable likelihood of whatever cause?

Get to know yourself. Any way you can. Watch out for the side-effects of any suggested medications. KEEP A DIARY. And especially don't fret if you fail at getting better. A little better is awesome any time you manage it. Perfect is not available.

All the very best, and if genes are on your side, you might be having a gin for the queen when you are 86, even if you don't succeed at being the best recovering hero everyone around you thinks they need you to be.

Mostly, get to know yourself. Therapy is scary but crazy good if have a go at it. 1% efforts compound. And you are not alone. Unfortunately, you'll likely be surrounded by the 95% who don't know addiction intimately, but look for those who do.

Cheers again. Peace and love to you and those you touch.

The most disturbing part of drinking to your mental faculties is how it effects your sleep. It leaves you in a haze and that accumulates. Once you stop, sleep will help you get back on track again. You still have time to recover.

My father did the same thing as you are doing. He's recently stopped. He's sharp as a knife again after a very short amount of time after years of being, which I can best describe as, out-of-sync with everything.

I have had a somewhat similar experience to you.

I was living and working in London (big drinking culture) for about 10-12 years. Mostly just a few beers each night with work friends. After a while I had to have a few beers at night even when not out with work.

This slowly progressed up to a 4 pack, then a 4 pack and a glass of wine, then a 4 pack and half a bottle of wine etc etc, then beers at lunch, and before I knew it I couldn't go without drink for very long.

It was only when I started finding it harder to focus and forgetting really simple and recent stuff that I started to worry. I'd lost so much to drinking (driving license, girlfriend, friends, money, jobs) but it was when it started to affect my basic cognition that I took action. It was very scary, my brain is what pays my bills.

After nearly 2 years completely sober I'd say I'm about 90% back mentally, but I've realised so many more benefits. Brilliant relationships, loads more money, I laugh more, I eat better, sleep better......it's fucking BRILLIANT!!!

Please find the help you need sooner rather than later. You can turn things around and it's totally worth it.

I'm 41 and sober this year!

Could it be some sort of mental withdrawal?

Some suggestions to help with the tiredness (and I'm grounding this in my athletic background, not a doctor):

1/ Increase the amount of water you are consuming. Try to put down 80 oz a day. Keeping a full water bottle with you on your person will help a lot.

2/ Keep a strict bedtime and sleep 7+ hours nightly. Feeling tired? Get sleep. Building a good set of sleep habits will help your body regulate itself overall better. Also just in general people don't sleep enough and this is a great easy spot to start looking.

These are two tips I know have helped a TON for me. Keeping discipline for sleeping and "over" hydrating have resulted in a lot of my brain fog disappearing or at least my perceived productivity and focus has improved. I also spent more time in the gym but I feel that is a personal decision and the above tips were independently very very useful at keeping me sharper.

This page discusses nutritional support for drinkers to help maintain health and to possibly help with reducing alcohol consumption:

  http://doctoryourself.com/alcohol_protocol.html

Maybe you will find this unusual approach helpful. Best of luck.

Whatever you do about the boozie, have medical supervision and ALWAYS be honest with your Doctor. Lie to your boss, partner, friends, and coworkers if you must but NEVER EVER lie to your doctor.

Individuals vary considerably and there's no telling what's permanent and isn't for you but I think you'll be surprised how much difference moderation and good sleep will help. Also remember that angst/stress about mental fog(pr anything) adds to it.

When you compare yourself to others, consider your cohort. If your coworkers are all amazing then there's no issue with being at the tail end of the curve because someone always will be.

I had a similar issue. Casual once or twice a week, turned nightly over the pandemic. I also live in a country different from my birth, though the locals still speak decent English. When the country went into lockdown (followed by curfews) I didn't leave my area to see my foreigner friends, and only saw the people in the neighborhood I live in.

I feel the pandemic revealed something in me, which was basically an underlying stressor of living in a foreign country and working from home. Previously, I was able to distract myself from the stressor with a lot of activity. I filled my days with work, being among friends, and other activities. These things were a distraction which sort of enabled me to outrun having to face this underlying issue. The pandemic slowed time down to the extent that I had to face these things head-on. Instead of dealing with them properly, I numbed myself with alcohol and a relationship which didn't have lasting fundamentals.

Towards the end of the pandemic restrictions, I had a difficult time with focus because of issues in the relationship and being hung over every morning. The switch back to "normal" was leaving me behind, because I wasn't adapting. I had built a lifestyle in which both the alcohol and the relationship were the escape, and then the relationship ended and I knew I needed to stop the alcohol.

I don't think I have gone backwards, or that alcohol has negatively affected my skills. In some ways, I feel that age helps. But I'm far behind where I would be if I didn't drink. I didn't do nearly as much work as I would have, and the work I did wasn't as high quality. Otherwise, it's hard to measure.

You may need more time to recover. To fully recover, you may need to stop completely. Though my tolerance went way up, I'll still feel horrible the next morning even with the equivalent of two beers. My greater concern right now isn't even so much the alcohol, as it's the underlying issues which sent me into the spiral in the first place. I feel that I'm working through it emotionally, so it's hard to put it into words. Maybe feeling my way out of it is the key, rather than rationalizing it. I feel I'm making progress though.

Good luck!

> I somehow feel sick and constantly tired.

Because you have been drinking so long, your brain's neurochemical levels (specifically dopamine) have adjusted around the alcohol's effects, and now that you've removed it, these chemicals are out of balance (this is called downregulation/upregulation).

This is a very common effect of long-term drug/alcohol use (really any medication too), all you can do is stop the alcohol use and wait for it to improve - it 100% will, but it will take time. A supplement called N-Acetyl-Cystene (NAC) can help, though of course it is not a magic bullet

Alcohol is not good for you, it's not good for your physical or mental health to be drinking this much. You should try to get help to reduce your intake.

It catches up on you. I've not managed to fully quit, but the last five years or so have been about learning about how my use of alcohol affects me and adjusting my life accordingly.

There's a lot of good support out there. I hung out on /r/stopdrinking on reddit for a while, it's a really nice community. Worth checking out.

Tired could be depression, but please don't take that as a diagnosis, just a brainstorming possibility. When you give up a substance that you have used for a long time depression is a common side effect. Please talk to a doctor, most likely you'll need to talk to several doctors, unless you get lucky.

I'm not an alcoholic and I'm not as sharp as I used to be (in my 30s now). It's possible you decline is not alcohol related. I'm pretty sure mine is that I've been in a stagnate job and that my motivation to work hard is decreased from being screwed over a few times.

You will be fine. It would not bother you if not for your alcoholism.

Try to tell someone about this, support is important. Quitting is a bit of a process, but its actually not that hard, it's just hard as fucking fuck some days. You are not alone.

> I somehow feel sick and constantly tired.

Have you had a sleep study? Alcohol makes apnea worse, and can cause brain fog and that same feeling you're describing.

I prefer a joint every 2-3 weeks. More frequently it takes a toll, I perceive. Less frequently I see myself missing something.

>I managed to cut down my drinking in the past 3 months.

Good job, OP!

You should take a second opinion.

I am Australian, and for no one real reason, don't drink that much at all any more, mostly for convenience of being able to drive for dropping off and picking up children etc.

But, as a country, drinking is historically Australia's national past time, and we used to eclipse all others including the Germans, but trailing off a bit these days, I think.

But, based on personal experience and empirical observations, a six pack a night, of American beer, most people in Australia would class that as necessary rehydration, maybe undertaken before breakfast.

If it was, say, two bottles of wine a night, I'd be saying that I have seen that sort of level to potentially have a detrimental effect, but in many ways other than cognitive before that would creep in.

You also have to take into account that your body will become to a certain extent accustomed to alcholo use and you tend to build up tolerance via production of more enzymes to break alcohol down, shaping of your drinking habits (eg guzzling vs drinking) type of alcohol you choose and so on.

I do not advocate use of alcohol in an extensive or pervasive way, and statistically alcohol is one of the worst drugs there is, partly because of availability. But I feel there are worse things that you can be doing to yourself, including excessively stressing out about things, like work, or drinking too much...

There are many things you can do to start to minimise impacts.

For instance if you start to not really know how many drinks you have had, put the bottle top or ring pull in your top pocket for each drink, measuring something is the first step to controlling something.

Also, it is not just the amount you drink, it is the rate you drink and the condition of your stomach when you drink that makes a big difference.

Rule of thumb is for an adult male it is 0.01 BAC ( 0.01g of alcohol in every 100ml of blood. ) out, or processed every hour by the body. (YMMSV)

And one standard drink is 0.01 BAC in. One can American standard beer is about 1 standard drink, strong beer maybe up to 2.

If you space out your beers, say by having a glass of water between each one, the peak alcohol BAC can be substantially reduced, it's basic queueing theory. Plus the impact of any dehydration will be greatly diminished and the next morning should be somewhat more pleasant.

And make sure to have some food first, the rate of absorption on an empty stomach can be substantially greater than one that has food to dilute the alcohol in the stomach.

But, regardless of all this, if you start having episodes where you can’t remember, or maybe act inappropriately, causing regrets, it is wise to seek some help if you cannot diminish these effects on your own.