Is living in NYC worth it?

I’ve been in NYC 18 years (went to college here) minus a 1 year stint in Miami. I grew up in Atlanta. I’m married with two kids under three. I absolutely love it here…

You either love NYC or you hate it and thankfully you will know where you fall within 1-2 years of moving. It can be intense.

I personally love the energy, diversity, ambition, serendipity and grit. I love being able to walk and discover something new every time, no matter how often I’ve walked the path. I love how much it is constantly changing. I love the museums, parks, theaters and art galleries. I’ve traveled all over the world and no city compares for me (Hong Kong is my second love).

If you are a homebody, this is not the right place for you. If you don’t enjoy meeting new people, likely not the place for you. If you thrive off of nature, hiking, surfing, playing golf, this is likely not the place for you.

The physical quality of life in nyc is inferior in almost every way, it’s the intellectual and social quality of life that keeps millions tied to it.

Happy to answer any questions.

Edit: Final item to add, in nyc there is no shame to having roommates until you enter a committed relationship and move in together. Even couples have roommates. To outsiders it seems weird but it’s a necessity here.

Here's my thoughts as a NYC lifer:

NYC is a very, very good city to live in if you know how to take advantage of it. Others in the comments have already said why: arts, culture, entertainment, nightlife, and the sheer culture of the city. If you know how to unlock it, the city can do nearly anything you want. It's also (surprisingly) a nice city to bike around these days, and has some of the best regional rail in the country for local traveling. New York itself is a beautiful and (IMO) somewhat underappreciated state, and it's easy to get to much of the state from the city. It's also much more than just Manhattan and (nowadays) Brooklyn: the Bronx, Queens, and (even!) Staten Island are critical to the city's identity and culture, and are often overlooked by transplants.

That being said, it's not for everyone. You have to be okay, mentally, with a certain amount of mishegaas. You have to be okay with garbage and the fact that the city reeks in the summer, and you have to internalize the fact that garbage and homeless people existing aren't the same thing as crime. If you're a programmer, you'll also have to internalize that New York cares much less about technology: we're a finance and arts city; if you meet people at bars here, there's a very good chance they won't want to hear about tech or startups, &c &c.

(Separately: you shouldn't be paying anywhere near $5k for the average 1BR, even in a "high-end" neighborhood like the UES. Most convenient neighborhoods in Brooklyn should be around $2.5-$3k for a 1BR in the current market, which is already obscene. For "cool" neighborhoods in Manhattan, I would expect around the same.)

For me it's the schools. I have 3 kids and they all go to public schools in Manhattan. NYC has some very good public schools. Maybe not as good as the best private schools, but hey, you save 50-60k per year.

Among elementary, middle and high schools, the best deal you get with the high schools. NYC has a system of specialized high schools where the admission is based on an exam. Some elementary schools are great. You can research that ahead of time and restrict the area you are looking to move to. Of course, the rents or home prices are higher in the districts with great schools.

Middle schools, that's a bit of a problem. The admission is currently based on lottery. Quite a number of middle schools used to have exam-based admission, but now it's all lottery. Hoping for this to change in the future.

If I didn't have to worry about schools, I'd choose Jersey City any day.

Rents superficially look ridiculous, but unlike other cities where you feel like you're failing unless you eventually own your own big place, here I find it's almost a badge of honor to live in an interesting apartment that's no bigger than it needs to be. I share a studio now with my wife, which as a Bay Area person even 10 years ago I would never fathom doing, but here it doesn't feel unusual at all.

You'll pay more here, but have an experience that's hard to get anywhere else in America. It's definitely worth trying out.

I grew up in NYC but moved to DC years ago and enjoy it a lot. Cost of living is noticeably lower, still no need for a car (though having one isn’t prohibitively expensive like in NYC), and it’s got a better vibe than people give it credit for (At least if you’re not in politics). A bit slower paced but you can also Amtrak or Jet bus up to NYC any time you want.

NYC is incredible, but when it came down to value… it was hard to justify the $5k+/mo rents. Delis are great but its just not worth it

That said, if you are interested in NYC, I wouldn’t look in Manhattan these days. Brooklyn or the more accessible parts of Queens are where I’d look for a better vibe and good values

Will add a little context to what others are saying. Born and largely raised in NYC, both renter and property owner, raising 3 kids as well. Have loved but been ambivalent about NYC too. My wife, also a NYer, and I left in 2000 for California, but when 9/11 happened we KNEW we had to move back.

The economics can be brutal. Have been reading an academic book, a study of rents in Manhattan from 1760-1850 (real book, written by Columbia U history professor). Fascinating, fascinating story but the distillation is a tale of property owners learning in the decades following the revolution how to make land income producing, and how the long series of flywheel-like incentive driven decisions made NYC the property owner dominated city it is today.

As a renter, literally no matter your income, you ARE second class. The interests of large commercial and residential rentiers drive nearly all critical city decisions. Predator/prey is an oft-used metaphor, and it is not wrong, but it is not the whole story. You are prey who are competing to be prey. It is sick.

So as a renter, you will FEEL it. Even if you are in a one of a kind 20k/mo penthouse with a celebrity as a neighbor, you are being used, and you will FEEL that. Beyond the economics, which will be forced upon you- especially right at this moment, because large owners took something of a hit during the pandemic and they are going for blood now, no joke- the status is a vibe you can never quite shake.

All kinds of things in the city are great experientially for all kinds of people, and there really isn't a better place in the US at least to raise autonomous savvy children. And strategically NYC will be fine with climate change- large owners plan 50-75-100 years out, and the city will wind up increasing its dominance as a center.

But if you don't own, you will feel it every day. And the economics make it incredibly difficult for almost all to own.

After all that, my advice is- be careful about your decision making. There are many wonderful energetic places in the US that have fundamentally better economics. If you feel you have to come to NY, come with your eyes open.

Hope that helps. Good luck.

You should definitely come check it out and see if you like being here for a couple of weeks. You can definitely do a lot better than $5k, check out this street easy link[1] at the time of posting it has 173 apartments in neighborhoods in Brooklyn that are all really nice and under $4k/mo with no broker fee. There's actually a LOT of good cheap food here, depending on where you are and your tolerance for eating while standing. Entertainment costs vary, but I saw an excellent show a few weeks ago for $20 and paid I thin $8 for a beer at the venue.

I've been here for 7 years and love it, it's actually very pleasant most of the time.

[1]https://streeteasy.com/for-rent/nyc/price:-4000%7Carea:321,3...

Unfortunately right now is the most expensive the renting market has ever been (after it was the lowest it's ever been 1.5 years ago). Things are slowly cooling.

NYC in general is expensive (11$ chipotle burrito), but the wages are also crazy. For an entry level, 0-2 year experience programmer at a C level startup, you're easily looking at 100k+ salary. Outside of work, NYC is fun because you can pretty much think of anything you want to do tonight/tomorrow, and you'll have multiple options. Manhattan gets less noisy the further from the middle you get. I would recommend upper west side, upper east side, or hell's kitchen to live in Manhattan on a noise to cost to safety balance.

The optimal way would be to move into a 1 bedroom with a significant other and split the rent 50/50

I think Hartford is the best. It's a good value except taxes. They have regular trains up and down the Knowledge Corridor and from New Haven you can go to NYC. Unlike Albany, the train prices to interesting places don't vary. You would also perhaps need to like New Haven for it to be worth it. I certainly like it.

However, I moved back to SF almost a year ago and I'm conflicted about it.

However if you want to be in New York multiple days a week I suggest somewhere near a train in NJ, like Elizabeth, and if you really want to be near the ocean I suggest Ocean County, NJ. If you live in NJ you can also go to Princeton and Philly easily which I also love.

I've lived here (Lower Manhattan, BK, and now Astoria) for the last 10 years and wouldn't move anywhere else.

For reference, I lived in SF (Pac Heights) for ~4 years during and after grad school and a couple of other metros tooThe density of stuff to do / people is much higher in NYC. The diversity of people, language, backgrounds is amazing. You are signing up for dirt, grime, homeless people, weird smells and terrible traffic. But also new restaurants, an amazing music and art scene, very interesting people and an increasingly growing tech scene. On housing:

- You don't need to pay $5K for a 1 Br. Greenpoint/Astoria and even UWS has good-ish places for cheaper. You can find a 2 br in the 80s-90s on the west side for 5K, 1 br should be meaningfully cheaper.

- Look at more neighborhoods. Start at times square, and make three circles that are a 20-30-40 min subway commute from there. Not that you would ever go to times square, but it is central and gives you an idea of relative distance.

- Don't live in Jersey City or Hoboken

- Don't expect a lot of space. I know you think you are used to small spaces in SF, but expect smaller. Prioritize clean and quiet over space.

It's not a good city for most. It's expensive, crowded, busy and difficult to live in. If you get a good job in the city and want to try it, sure, give it a shot. But most visitors end up moving elsewhere.

You may wish to consider other large American cities if the only criteria is “good food and has ‘energy’.” For example, the weather in LA is fucktons better than NYC, and LA easily meets those criteria, but you have to be OK with a certain amount of ubiquitous plastic surgery (and equally fake personalities), and you will probably need a car.

I used to live in NYC in my late twenties/early thirties. I was single, I made very good money, I loved it. For a man, it’s a great place for dating too, with a significant surplus of women.

But I also don’t regret moving to the Bay Area at all, where I enjoy living in a large house on a quiet street, close to the hills, with year-round great weather. I don’t have a desire to go clubbing anymore, a neighborhood BBQ is just fine.

It was much easier to make friends in NYC, but friendships were transient too: there’s a lot of coming and going. It gets exhausting after a couple of years. I still like going back once a year or so, but a long weekend is enough.

I lived in SF for almost a decade, NYC for a decade, and seattle now for a decade. Of those places I would stay in seattle (as I have). In fact I face a lot of friction because I work mostly for high end finserv companies who rarely hire remotely to stay here.

NYC is wonderful for restaurants, and maybe for bars but I don’t drink. It’s great for museums and cultural activities in ways that make SF and seattle look provincial and backwater. It has a Gotham city vibe that you can’t replicate and if you like that it’s great.

What I didn’t like and drives me away today: * public transit while complete is frustratingly time consuming. To go distances around town I sneeze at in seattle takes at least 45 minutes each way, turning shopping for a new shirt into a full afternoon activity, and commuting to work 25% of your workday. * loud. It’s chronically loud in all dimensions. I hate discordant noise, it stresses me out. Seattle is quiet. New York is maliciously loud. * I like having a garden. No go in Nyc unless you’re independently wealthy. * it’s expensive for what you get for housing. Seattle and SF is too, and maybe SF has moved beyond, but generally NYC expect to always feel house poor - both in spending too much of your base income but also in the quality of location of where you live.

It's worth it if there's something you value there that you cannot get here, and you accept the tradeoffs.

Is it important to you to eat some of the best food on Earth at the expense of living in a smaller, older apartment? Do you prefer social diversity to a temperate climate? Are you generally an indoors or outdoors person? Are you a single straight male?

These are the types of questions I'd be answering to help decide. That said, I haven't lived in NY, so take this all with a grain of salt.

I don't think your estimates are accurate. A comfortable 2 bedroom can be had in the nice parts of Brooklyn for 3.5-6k. Manhattan is somewhat more, but not drastically so.

Grew up in the midwest and moved to Brooklyn from Philly. Absolutely love it here. City is truly alive with energy and the job prospects are fantastic. Your mileage will vary though depending on how much you make.

Manahattan--and I guess Brooklyn these days--are somewhat unique. I'd definitely try them out for a couple of weeks to see if they're something you can handle over the long term. Cost is a factor but it's also just the overall intensity. As a visitor who likes the city, I couldn't stand living there--albeit as a student in the 80s.

Third decade living in NYC. For the last 12 we’ve been raising kids here.

Sure when we travel the grass other places looks green. And life seems so much easier in the burbs or a less hectic city (most US cities are essentially suburbs once NYC gets in your blood…). And it’s expensive as all hell. But it would be so hard to leave.

If you are a person with interests you can find it here. What do I mean by that? If you get interested in something you are almost guaranteed to find a world class way to pursue it here with world class people. I don’t just mean business or career pursuits. If you get passionate about learning things and doing new things you will almost never be limited by who and what exist around you. It’s here.

But it has to be for you. For some people the energy fits like a glove. For some people, all they feel from the “energy” is an invasion into their private sphere. If you are footloose and free try it out for a year!

I stopped looking at these things as absolute, forever.

The real question - do you want to have lived in New York for part of your life, or not.

5k/mo isn't unreasonable for a decent 1bd, and the market definitely goes a lot higher than that. Rents right now I think are a bit insane even for NYC, and there's clearly a huge amount of demand, particularly in the luxury segment. If you have a job that pays well enough such that 5k/mo is not a dealbreaker for you, I think it's absolutely worth a try--it's a completely different vibe from SF or any other city in the US. I moved a decade ago and never looked back. But if possible I would advise spending more for the locations you like most rather than trying to live in a less central area to save money.

Generally speaking, no, it is not worth living in NYC unless you have family or a network of friends already there. You can have a bountiful social life with good transportation in many smaller-than-NYC cities in the U.S.

What's the risk in finding out? It sounds like an adventure either way. If you don't like it move on.

Have you thought about something more radical? South east Asia has all of the energy at a fraction of the living costs.

NYC native here (Have also lived in multiple other cities in USA and ouside of it). NYC is a great city to live in. There is so much stuff to do. And the energy you are talking about is real. Those rent prices whoever look insane to me. I know that you can get a one bedroom apartment in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (It is a nice neighborhood) for around $2K. Used to be $1,500 two years ago. I would give it a try. You should live in NYC at least once in your life.

Live in New York City once but leave before it makes you hard.

Not sure of your timing but my tenant is moving out August 31 from my (very) small 1 bedroom apartment in the village right by Washington Square Park and the rent will be well below $5k (not yet sure what it will be but probably lower 3k area). Like I said it’s small. If you’re interested send me an email. Username: “asuela1” with yahoo’s email service (it’s my spam email but I’ll check it if you comment back here saying you sent an email).

1000% yes. After living in NYC for over a decade I find most other places to be intolerable for anything beyond a visit. Most of all, I absolutely could not ever again tolerate a living situation that requires cars. If I can't conveniently get around with walking, biking, bus, and subway, then that's not a place I'm willing to live for any significant amount of time.

Maybe live in Jersey City?

It's closer (time-wise) to mid-town or lower Manhattan than much of the outer boroughs, and is (or was, at least) heaps cheaper.

And sure, NYC is crowded, dirty, frustrating, and so very expensive, but .. it's also exhilarating, fascinating, insane in the best possible way, and if you've got the chance you should absolutely do it.

(Lived there for 6 years; loved it)

Yes! Lived there 7 years.

You can’t compare SF or any city in the US to NYC.

Sf and the bay is a boring piece of suburbia that shouldn’t be inflicted on anyone before 35.

Go .. run!

What are you talking about? There is a ton of apartments under 3k in Manhattan: https://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny/rentals/?searchQueryState...

Though as someone who lived in both cities (not recently) I’m not sure what you’re hoping to gain by moving.

I think the best bet is to take a 2Bed 2Bath apartment for around 6K and split it with a roommate. That way you can cut the most expensive line item of your stay in half, while still getting the NYC experience. However, all that goes out the window if you have a family or kids.

Are you married? Do you have kids?

Up to your mid-thirties if you're single, then move somewhere cheaper.

It's just very expensive there, unless you have a job somewhere in the city making >100k a year then paying the $2.5k+ rent for a apartment the size of a closet isn't worth it to me.

if you don't feel pretty strongly that it's worth it, it's probably not

XYZ add it for your city ;)

Lots of NYC love here. I've lived in both cities for several years so maybe I can offer a more nuanced perspective. Email's in my profile if you have questions or want some survival tips. And sorry for the length, your question got me thinking!

First, the similarities:

- SF punches well above its weight as far as quality of bars and restaurants so they're about equal here. Both cities have specific things I like.

- Both have gorgeous areas of nature you can visit by public transit. SF has a slight edge here with the Marin County and the Pacific coast, but in NYC you can take the subway to the beach, and it's warm enough to swim. There's even a lifeguard!

- Both have ample employment, especially if you're in tech.

- Both are quite walkable and offer the "table stakes" of city living.

NYC's good:

- Culture & entertainment: Anybody who's anybody performs here. Broadway. Enormous selection of museums, shows, concerts, art galleries, interesting speakers, interest groups, etc. As other commenters have said, this is arguably the best part of NYC.

- Similarly, it's a lot easier to get friends and family to visit you when you live there; nearly everybody wants an excuse to visit.

- Lots of gorgeous parks and outdoor spaces free for the public, well-maintained, and generally safe.

- Significantly better rail transit options.

- Bars and businesses are open way later. Walking home from a bar in SF after midnight is spooky; in NYC, you're often just one of the crowd. Subway & taxis are 24x7.

- You can go to a bar or a meal without hearing a discussion about an app strategy or programming language.

- If you're single, I think it's way easier to meet somebody in NYC, regardless of your preference. It's just a bigger pool, and people have more diverse interests.

NYC's bad:

- Tiny, disheveled apartments. Rent prices. Rent in the wrong building and people can be hostile.

- There's a culture of...honor? Aggression? ...in the city that crosses all races and classes. You can easily find yourself in a fight by accidentally stepping on somebody in the subway (happened to me) or similar clumsiness that would be handled with a polite call-out and apology in SF. One of the biggest unspoken differences IMO.

- People talk about "liking real weather," and summer was nice, but from late October to mid April the sky is flat steel and the wind bites your bones—all the plants are dead and it rarely snows much so it's just brown and gray and grime. It can be seriously depressing.

- Fresh food (fruit, vegetables, sometimes meat) is much poorer in quality in NYC, even at moderately high-end grocery stores. Fruits & veggies can cost triple or more in the winter; they'll be withered and/or moldy in 24 hours. Check the sell-by date on everything you buy, leaving expired products on the shelf is rampant.

- Air pollution is noticeably worse than SF. Can depend on where you live. DO NOT rent by a major road (any of the freeways, some parts of the avenues in Manhattan). SF is small and nearly always has a breeze; NYC has many stagnant days with bad ozone and other lung irritants building up.

- If you ride the subway or take elevators, you'll get sick a lot. It may impact your health long-term, especially combined with the air quality.

- It's noisy and dirty. Ambulances wail like angels announcing the end times. People honk 24x7. Trucks will dump their engine brakes right outside your window. The noise can seriously disturb your sleep; I never got completely used to it, even after years. Whole city smells like piss & garbage when it gets warm.

- I once had a rat run around the corner, being chased by a cat, and run smack into my ankle; both rat & cat sat stunned for a split second then continued down the sidewalk. The thing was so big it actually made me limp for a bit.

- Absolutely gross wealth disparity. I mean it's literally grotesque how gaudy some people and places are.

A resounding YES. I'm a straight single guy, in my early 30s. I just moved a couple months ago after living in SF for 10 years, but I regularly visited NYC for 4 weeks every year, so I had some idea of what I was getting into. Here's a few things to note:

- I still love SF, and I'd totally move back in the next 4-5 years if we see another tech boom, but it now looks like things are going very bust. Visit any other major US city, and not only NYC, but LA, Vegas, Austin, Miami, and New Orleans, and you'll realize that things simply aren't back to 2019 levels (fwiw, in my travels, Chicago was the only other city that felt as dreary as SF). Destigmatization of remote work and a tech downturn spell bad news for SF. I feel things are just going to get worse.

- I kept on making excuses to not leave SF. I had a cushy rent controlled apartment. I accumulated a bunch of stuff. I had an office in SF. I wanted to mentor some junior coworkers face to face. I'm involved in some local community theater and dance productions. I'm good friends with my neighbors, my barista, my barber, and my dentist. And it's my city. In reality, I felt a sense of relief when I gave my roommates notice. And then I flew to NYC, found a few luxury apartments I liked, and got a "luxury" studio in Chelsea. And then, when I got back, it took me about a week to get rid of most of my stuff, and a day to pack the rest into two check in bags, one carry on, and a backpack.

- I didn't realize how chronically depressed I was in SF until I moved. In SF, my social circle fizzed out. My social life was mostly interacting with coworkers (or the few of them who decided to come to the office), and monthly drinks with my dance and theater friends. I spent every weekend either reading a book at home, or on last minute trips to LA or Vegas.

- While I'd be lucky to have any sort of social obligation in SF on any given evening, in NYC, I'd be lucky not to. People live in uncomfortably cramped settings in NYC and they're looking for excuses to get out. Also, a lot of things like restaurant reservations and show tickets require advance planning, so you have to be good at managing your personal calendar. On any given weekend, I'd get texts from former coworkers, current coworkers, college buddies, and random people I met in classes to hang out. That's on top of a much more active dating life.

- As a straight guy, dating is way less stressful. Sure, it's still a numbers game, but it's nothing like the obsessive "spend an hour on Hinge a day if you want a date this week" I experienced in SF. Otoh, women in NYC are less likely to grasp what you do for a living. In SF, I dated women in sales or med school who were learning R and Python in their free time. That's not gonna happen in NYC.

- On the topic of cramped living accommodations, NYC is possibly the only city in the world (except for maybe Hong Kong and Tokyo) that exemplifies the "the city is your living room" concept. Pick a studio based on location - ideally Manhattan below 23rd and uptown of FiDi, and make sure it's big enough to entertain yourself and another person for a few hours, and no bigger. Don't even think about WFH. Go to your office if you have one. My employer gives me a WeWork stipend, which is nice, but I also occasionally work from coffee shops and hotel room lobbies.

- Summers here do suck, ngl. Even venturing out for a few minutes can feel like a chore. People complain about the winters, but I've been here during Jan/Feb and I find it tolerable - and also a nice opportunity to up your dressing game. I miss having in-unit laundry - laundromats are a time sink and even hauling all my laundry to and back from a wash and fold is a slog. I also miss having a fully stocked and spacious kitchen, and having access to a grocery store with sane lines. You have to get used to eating out. Other than that, there isn't much I miss.

- Try moving in winter. The rental market usually cools down by then, and there's also some evidence that inflation more broadly will too.