HACKER Q&A
📣 amichail

Why aren't games marketed as the work of director X like movies are?


And if they were, what impact would this have on video game design?


  👤 nxtbl Accepted Answer ✓
They used to be, at least during the Amiga heydays.

Sid Meier's Pirates!, Civilization, Colonization, Railroad Tycoon etc. [1]

David Braben presents Frontier - Elite II

Also after Populous, games like Powermonger, Black & White etc were all known to be "by" Peter Molyneux.

Then there were also isometric shooters by some John Carmack

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Meier#At_MicroProse


👤 dleslie
In a name: John Romero

First off, I want to state that John is a wonderful human being and a great designer. He's a delight to talk with and the effort and outcomes he is responsible for is commendable.

In the early days of PC gaming lead designers were well known and often printed on the box of games; think Sid Meier, Chris Sawyer, Roberta Williams, Tim Schafer, hell even Derek Smart. It's my impression that this wasn't particularly true in consoles, or even on mac or amiga; save for some notable exceptions like Hideo Kojima and Shigeru Miyamoto.

But John Romero and Ion Storm are, I believe, the cause of the trend towards star designers being stopped dead in its tracks. John was hyped up as an absolute all-star designer, with the infamous "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" advertisement campaign for Daikatana; with the cost overruns, and the product's flop in the market, investors and publishers became exceedingly wary of tying their dollars and projects to the names of specific developers. They'd poured money into Ion Storm, and now Ion Storm's products were critically tainted by way of association with Romero. (A shame, because Anachronox is a rather nice game).

After that, it became difficult and a point of contract negotiation for contributing developers to _even have their names in the credits_. Publishers became so protective of their brands and their associations that they were deeply concerned about what developer names were tied to their products.


👤 whywhywhywhy
Are you not familiar with Hideo Kojima?

It’s a bit of a joke now how many times his name appears before you play the game but he’s earned it because he’s an excellent director which makes very distinctive narratives, styles and snappy but deep gameplay.


👤 brudgers
Because directors have a union...ok actually a guild.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directors_Guild_of_America

Movie credits for normal Hollywood productions are all contractually specified in terms of listing order, inclusion, and technical aspects.

Non-Hollywood type productions can tend to follow the norm simply because it is the norm and probably because it is sort of what audiences expect and because the collaborative nature of movies means that bucking the system is likely to make people not want to work with/for you...who wants to argue with someone over whether to include the key-grip or if the screen writer should come before or after the supporting actors?


👤 jccalhoun
Sometimes they are. Activision was created, at least in part, because Atari refused to give creators credit. EA originally featured the creators prominently https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/we-see-farther---a-hi...

In the 90s there was, famously Daikatana's "John Romero is going to make you his bitch" ad. American McGee's Alice is another.

Currently, it seems like Japanese creators are the most known and in the West it seems more like studios are known. And in announcements they will use the creators and companies to get buzz.

However, that isn't really marketing. In film, for example, Nope was advertised as a Jordan Peele film. Most games aren't advertised that way. Games advertising seems to focus more on the new: new graphics, new play mechanics. This might be because film doesn't have the same visible advances year after year that games have. The visible differences between a 1980 and a 2020 game are much more obvious than a 1980 and 2020 film.

When it comes to smaller, more indie games, there are people like Johnathan Blow whose games get advertised as being "from the maker of..."


👤 egypturnash
I think it may be worth looking into some film history: how did the director come to be the face of the movie in the first place, and the person whose creative vision is considered to be paramount, rather than an unremarkable administrator who simply got a bunch of people pointed in mostly the same direction for a while?

This is not at all my field so I can’t deliver an impromptu lecture on it; the back of my head is saying it largely changed in the US in the seventies, with a lot of influence from French New Wave films, which were very much seen to be strongly shaped by the director, rather than simply managed. I might be wrong here!


👤 jjj123
What you’re describing is auteurism. I think there is plenty of this in games already but you’re right it’s not as prevalent or mainstream as film directors.

If it were to get more prevalent, it might open the door for more original or unique AAA games. Giving a single person full control of the vision of a game almost certainly makes for more idiosyncratic games than the design-by-commitee approach many AAA games take today. Think more God of War (2018)s or Death Strandings and fewer Far Cry 7s.

But in my opinion auteurism is unfair to the rest of the team. AAA games are a joint effort, a director may have a singular vision but there are thousands of decisions made by the rest of the team (not to mention the labor it takes to execute that vision) that all coalesce into the final product.


👤 mysterydip
Because for many studios, the creative staff are cogs to be used for a game then dumped when it's over. Read "press reset" for many examples of this. They want you to stick with the publisher for sequels, not follow the developers as they go from studio to studio. There are exceptions to this (Kojima for one).

👤 aasasd
Personally I think that individual game designers were important when the whole game could be made by like ten or twenty people. Remember that in the seventies and early eighties, literally a couple guys could slap together a game and sell it (which pretty much led to the crash of '83, since there was a lot of garbage). This changed a bit in the 90s, but still small teams did a lot until around mid-2000s when everyone flocked to larger publishers and got reshuffled into mostly nameless studios. Plus, games up to mid-2000s often explored new territory and invented new genres—in the 90s, many gamers knew who made the three outstanding games of the year. Whereas these days, new stuff appears maybe two or three times in a decade, and then gets flogged to death by dozens of copycats.

Perhaps today it's just meaningless to name one or two people who ‘design’ the game, when most of it is concepts borrowed from the common pool of the industry, and the content proper is made by twenty designers.

Indie games are where the individuals are now. Jonathan Blow, Zachtronics, Zach and Tarn Adams, Toby Fox, Emily Short, Jason Rohrer—these kind of guys. People still not just buy, but fund games by Ron Gilbert because it's his games.


👤 mikhael28
'John Romero is about to make you his bitch'.

I also think that the massive failure of Daikatana helped people see that attaching your reputation to a game might not be the best idea.


👤 oreally
Currently it's the press who coins the directors as auteurs, not the other way round. Eg. dark souls came before miyazaki. There are some exceptions like hideo kojima.

Also not all games are movies. Their iteration times seem far longer. And games/game designs can be worked on for so long it's natural you'd want to switch to something else.

Lastly, it is hard to quantify the contributions of one guy compared to the entire studio without access to sales. If one pushes his personal brand he'd have to step over a whole bunch of very qualified egos too. If it succeeds you'd end up with payscales that are out of whack similar to Hollywood, and it's not a pretty situation since part of your workforce can transition out of games.


👤 reassembled
I feel like Iranian-American programmer Nasir Gebelli deserves a special mention here. His early Apple II and Atari 800 games were credited simply: NASIR. I remember playing Space Eggs on my Atari 800 as a kid and being mystified at this strange name at the bottom of the title screen.

But what he’s most known for is more or less single handedly carrying Squaresoft through their formative years. He was responsible for Rad Racer, Final Fantasy I-III, and Secret of Mana. Nasir was such a legend that Squaresoft flew him to Japan from the US to work on their games. At one point when his work visa expired, they flew the entire Squaresoft dev team back to Sacramento and completed FFIII in Nasir’s apartment.


👤 spywaregorilla
I would suspect its influenced in large part by Japanese culture and norms set by people like Miyamoto.

👤 PaulKeeble
There are a few exceptions, Sid Meier's for example has his name on a bunch of games as marketing. Tom Clancy was also attached to a bunch of military shooters for a while as well. Its used less currently than it was in the past but Studios and publishers as a whole do gain notoriety both good and bad and there is some discussion in gaming communities about certain individuals and their impact on games (these days often negatively).

👤 ehnto
I think the social dynamic isn't there, and the industry is still fairly young in comparison to movies. Games weren't traditionally that narrative based, and with a number of key disciplines standing entirely on their own to make up the game experience a game director isn't really as influential as a movie director. Some games don't even have a person you could point to and say that's the game director. The owner of a company hired a bunch of people to come together and make games, and they did it together.

To the various game director's credit, I'd also like to think it's a bit of humility baked into the game development community. I'm sure a game director can take a walk through their office, glance at any of the screens, from creative to technical, and think "oh yeah, these are the people making this thing happen". Game studios without a doubt have some of the most talented people in the world working for them. Making games is hard!


👤 Vermeulen
Still are a lot of indie games that are marketed based on the famous developer. Great talk on that from the GettingOverIt/QWOP dev, 'Put Your Name On Your Game' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4UFC0y1tY0

👤 Rastonbury
There are a few, Hidetaka Miyazaki Souls and Sid Meier Civ

👤 t-3
They are, to some degree (especially JRPGs), but narrative games haven't been really mainstream until relatively recently. We need a deeper cast of game directors to start glorifying them.

👤 simne
They are. But similar to many cheap tv series, now most famous games created not by individuals, but by abstract teams.

Problem with individuals, they are hard to deal.

Individuals don't make sustained value; individuals could change mind and go downshifting.

In good team mean performance of member could be much lower than for individual, but unlike individual who impossible to replace, team could easy replace every member and continue delivery.


👤 jshaqaw
A AAA game costs how much?

A corporation making that investment wants to own all of the brand IP it creates for that money. It isn’t looking to share that value with creators altruistically which would just give the creators more bargaining power next iteration.

Similar logic in movies. Studios want to own franchises like Marvel where the value is more in the studio owned brand IP than any specific actors or directors.


👤 smugma
Jonathan Blow’s games are all distinctive. I’m not sure I’d call him a director. Auteur or programmer/m-director, maybe.

👤 hgs3
I played through Clive Barker's Undying for the first time. I quite enjoyed it. I looked up the development of the game and it appears Clive's name wasn't attached to the project until latter in development. It was more of a marketing stunt than anything.

👤 ArtWomb
Because very few represent a single, cohesive auteurist creative vision. Yoko Taro is the only one I would even consider in this regard ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoko_Taro


👤 iamevn
Lots of comments saying this does in fact happen in videogames but I just also want to say that boardgames often are also marketed as the work of specific designers. I've got a whole James Earnest shelf dedicated to all things Cheapass.

👤 z3phyr
Video games follow the software dev model. I mean most software that is packaged does not explicitly name the lead developer on title. There are exceptions like vim by B. Moolenaar.

👤 mikhael28
Hollywood is a city of ego. Lots of have developers are too humble to insist on serving as the marketing vehicle for their work - they want the work to speak for itself.

👤 zelias
This only works when the director has solid name recognition, of which there are fewer examples in games.

Notable counter example is Hideo Kojima (check out MGS5 or Death Stranding)


👤 hammyhavoc
There's plenty. Hideo Kojima for one. Read some interviews in the average game publication to figure out who the current public favorites are.

👤 valbaca
Hidetaka Miyazaki is a very famous director/designer/writer of the FromSoftware games (Elden Ring, Soulsborne games)

👤 Theodores
Early game companies such as Atari had policies:

https://www.ranker.com/list/first-video-game-easter-egg-atar...

The industry grew out of that.

Furthermore, Hollywood is all about having your name in lights. Code isn't and it attracts people that do not expect to have their name in big letters.

It's culture.


👤 mr90210
Search for: Death Stranding Director’s cut

👤 telchior
It's interesting that so many replies here point out John Romero. I wonder if it's a generational thing -- people old enough to remember the hype of Ion Storm, but not quite old enough to remember the period before that.

No, it wasn't John Romero's fault. Nor was it any single person or company; but it would be more accurate to say that Atari and Electronic Arts are responsible.

Atari didn't like to give credit to creators. Atari eventually blew itself up, but a lot of people remembered how wronged they felt by the company withholding credit.

Some of these people created, or were early hires, at Electronic Arts. Although EA was venture-funded, it was very idealistic in its early days. The "Arts" in the name was proposed initially as "Artists", but the company felt that naming itself in that way would suggest that the people running the company were the artists, thus stealing credits from the developers. So instead, they called the company "Arts" and promoted their developers as "artists". EA also experimented with a lot of artistic choices, like promoting developers in press tours, trying to innovate in their packaging, credit screens, etc.

Tl;dr: all of this stuff basically failed to impress the public and couldn't be correlated to any improvement in sales. People apparently just didn't care. The one success EA eventually had with name branding was Madden football... but John Madden was an aging football coach who barely knew where the "On" button was. Later Electronic Arts CEOs thus trashcanned the idea of promoting developers, although I believe the founder, Trip Hawkins, also spoke quite publicly about the idea as a failure. EA became the festering mudpit of middle management we all know it as today. That all happened by the late 1980s.

Id Software, the place that gave John Romero his rockstar image, came after all of that, founded in 1991. Ion Storm was founded in 1996. At the same time that Romero's reputation was tracing a parabolic arc, people like Sid Meier were showing that you actually could use a developers name successfully. Romero didn't scare away anyone from doing so. Rather, it was the experience of corporations trying to do the same that scared away other corporations, and Ion Storm's failure (having been funded by Eidos, I believe) was just one more bit of evidence on a pre-existing pile.

Is that evidence right? It seems to generally be true, in my opinion. Yes, you get the occasional extremely successful auteur like Meier or Kojima. But those aren't predictable or repeatable, and you also get people like Romero, or Will Wright, or Peter Molyneux, who hit a peak then completely bomb with insane or just flat out wrong decision making.

One of the other comments suggested that one more reason is the lack of a union for movie producers. I have my own pet theory, which is rather different:

Making games is much, much harder than making movies. Success is less repeatable, and we have far more people who hit a peak in one project then utterly fail in the next. I think a good piece of evidence for this is in who the successful auteurs are in gaming: they're people who make the same kinds of experiences over and over. Sid Meier not only built his brand on sequels of Civilization; he's also a bit of a management genius who found the right bright young minds to lead design on his sequels. Hideo Kojima, in the Metal Gear series, basically wrote an extremely long story punctuated by gameplay. Will Wright was actually successful for a long time with fairly similar simulation games, and only met his end as a popular designer when he bit off way more than he could chew with Spore. The more a producer or designer tries to innovate on subsequent projects, the more likely they are to fail -- and gaming is a far more innovation-driven industry than film.

The only outlier I can even think of, someone who makes vastly different games and succeeds almost all the time, is Shigeru Miyamoto. He's got the whole support structure of Nintendo behind him, which is really proof that maybe the original EA model could have worked; but Nintendo is, thus far, a unique existence that nobody else has replicated, and even haven't figured out how to churn out name-brand creators.