HACKER Q&A
📣 beeks10

Who here is juggling two or more remote jobs? How is it working out?


For more context that made me ask this question, please see this video: https://youtu.be/clqUs5ZAUEU


  👤 sithadmin Accepted Answer ✓
FWIW, a lot of US employers report your current employment status, role and salary to databases like Equifax's 'The Work Number' - and nearly any organization that subscribes can view this data. HR departments DO look at this info and occasionally spot-check it to catch moonlighting employees.

You can request your own data here: https://employees.theworknumber.com/


👤 PragmaticPulp
I was on the other side of this: We had a remote worker who got a new job but then tried to hide it, collecting paychecks as long as possible.

For any manager paying attention, it wasn't difficult to spot. He would swing between being eager to please and virtually unreachable. We didn't have many meetings or phone calls, but he had more scheduling conflicts than anyone else. On the rare occasion that we had high urgency tasks, there was about a 50% chance that he would obviously be not working on it at all until the evening, despite being online all day.

Eventually we let him go for non-performance, which wasn't too hard to document. Now he has a problem where his resume start/end dates don't match what he's claiming on LinkedIn or (presumably) putting on his resume. He also burned the entire team (they figured it out) so he's not getting any positive references from anyway.

It may work if you can find two jobs with two incompetent managers who aren't paying attention, but I don't think it's as easy as people suggest for any reasonably well paying engineering job.


👤 im_busy
I currently have 1 full time job, 1 full time contracting, and 4 clients that pay me a retainer for a set amount of hours they can use week to week.

It's going fine; I measure that based on my performance reviews all being excellent, my clients all paying the bills on time, and all work is done in a timely fashion. I do individual contributor infrastructure engineering at the senior+ level.

Managing the calendar is the toughest part, making sure things don't overlap is difficult. My full time calendar is relatively light, the contracting gig on the other hand is starting to get on my nerves with the amount of meetings they're pushing me to attend.


👤 vr46
So I am currently juggling a 9-5 and a freelance gig and a couple of side-hustle type roles and I am about to ditch the 9-5 because it completely gets in the way of everything else. My work goes best when I have time flexibility - duh - and the 9-5 remote keeps me trapped at my machine. Gigs based on delivering a thing have always been best for me - if I'm selling my expertise, it's ALWAYS better than selling my time.

👤 throwaway1995v2
I do but one of them does know, basically I got a job offer, but my previous(and current employer) really needed me since they have a legacy backend written in a relative niche language and I was the only one left to maintain it while they migrate it to python, so they offer me to switch from full time to part-time with the same salary. so half of the day with my old employer and the rest with the new one.

I'm only doing it to pay for my house faster and when I finish with that by the end of the year I will quit, so far It had worked pretty well(minus some super long days).


👤 jlokier
I find it hard to believe the statistic in the video that 37% of remote workers are working multiple jobs, with the implication that means full-time workers.

Is that statistic actually for full-time workers doing overlapping time, and is there evidence? Or does it include all the people whose remote work is an hour here and there in random gig economy freelance tasks, where it's perfectly natural to have multiple commitments?


👤 froaway4job
I've been working multiple remote jobs for the past 4 years. I'm currently working 4 full time engineering roles and a part time contract. It's been tough but a great experience.

The main struggle is scheduling and making sure you can make all the meetings. It's also tough finding the right job which gives you autonomy to form your schedule.

The main perks are obviously money and not caring about getting laid off. In this market it's pretty hard to get laid off, we shall see how it plays out over the next few years.


👤 Distozion
It's interesting that a lot of people here seem to consider a second FT position as immoral/illegal. How about instead of a second FT job - studying FT for an unrelated degree? The time needed is arguably the same as a second FT and context switching is still there.

👤 more_corn
I work contract so I’m not hiding it from anyone. I juggle two clients simultaneously by design (it buffers me in case a contract ends). I’ve currently got four active clients and a compelling side-project (I also have 3 colleagues helping with those things). Keeping it all straight is a challenge. I lean heavily on my calendar and I take extensive notes. I have low patience for things taking longer than they should. And I’m having moments where I know I should remember a detail but it is just gone. I thought for a while that my memory was deteriorating, but I suspect I just have a lot going on and am reaching my natural limit of long term attention. I’m not sure I recommend it.

👤 MilStdJunkie
If you do this with direct charge government work, you're within hailing range of felony territory. Granted, you probably won't get caught, but if you do, it's going to be a bridge burner for you in this industry basically forever.

Is that entirely a bad thing, though, considering this industry? Discussion ongoing.


👤 oxff
I wonder how the legalities of working more than 1 (remote) job are. You'd think you'd run into some conflicting clauses in your employment contracts.

👤 DarrenDev
Not doing this myself, but I've worked a couple of contracts over the past few years where the workload and expected outputs were so small that they could easily have been handled as a second job alongside a more regular job with regular workloads. Think 1 hours work a day.

In both cases I resigned the job out of boredom, but I could easily have kept them on and worked a full second job with no one noticing.


👤 thomgo
You should check out r/overemployed

👤 overemployed
New account not to dox myself here.

I'm doing it. I very recently took on a second full time job. I work as a Release Engineer for both. It hasn't been too bad so far. The biggest thing is managing your calendars to avoid conflicts.


👤 motohagiography
Did it legitimately over the pandemic because I'm a solo consultant/contractor and don't have exclusivity clauses so I manage multiple clients, however, it has come up in interviews when they look at dates because I put them all on my CV.

Key observations to share are:

- the more different the jobs are, the more managable they are, as the complete context switch is as good as a break. It's not task context switching which is costly, it's role switching, which can be uplifting because there is a "you" in between the roles that is separate from each of them. Most highly successful people have intense hobbies for the same reason.

- Lying destroys your mental health. You don't need to lie if you set and relate with clear personal and professional boundaries. It's a kind of moral identity you have to set. Lying is weak, and indicates you've made some upstream errors that you just don't make when you are a pro. I asked a mentor for advice about something once and he said, "I don't get into the kinds of situations where this is even a question." If you are lying, for your own sake, stop.

- Stress really only comes from failing (nobody gets tired of winning, maybe just bored), so having another source of success improves your attitude and that pays off on both gigs massively. Success gives you a refreshing vibe to be around, and most jobs don't provide enough of it, so bringing exogenous success to relationships and work is huge.

- Working as a consultant in large institutions, there are employees and managers who make sabotaging and undermining consultants a kind of sport, so you need the durable skills for handling those people, as if you are doing multiple jobs, your biggest risk comes from people who won't respect your boundaries. That's a general life lesson as well.

- Realistically, nobody questions anything if you are succeeding, so if someone gets "suspicious," it's really that you aren't delivering value for them and it's time to improve or move on anyway.

- Have a plan to invest the increased revenue and don't spend it. You are giving up so much of your life to do the extra work, blowing it on representative and symbolic pleasures is just remedial, and becoming enslaved to the hedonic treadmill is a recipe for burnout. There is no there there. Luxury mainly makes up for impostor syndrome and blowing money satisfies a self destructive urge. If you wouldn't buy it if nobody else could see it, don't buy it.

- Have a plan to outsource or compensate for all the personal balls you are going to drop like new relationships, home and vehicle maintenance, accounting, gym time (get a home gym), nutrition, pet care. If you can do a master's degree while working, you can do a second job, and people with families manage, but if you don't have commitment and buy in from your partner, consider that the additional revenue is just going to become a bigger support obligation when you destroy your marriage making it, so take care.


👤 willio58
I could never. If you make enough money at one job working remote then there’s no need. If you don’t make enough then use your spare time beefing up your portfolio and applying to crazy-high paying jobs. Eventually you’ll land one.

For me, working two jobs adds a level of secrecy that’d be difficult for me to maintain long term. Also could be hard to do simple things like take PTO.


👤 gdfgjhs
I am so confused with comments in this threads. Since when did tech employees became so submissive and scared? As far as I know, having 2 jobs is not illegal, not unethical.

Many, sadly, low income families have to work two or more jobs. We in tech make enough but what if you are bored and need more challenges.

My current second job is family but I know multiple single engineers (or in one case, with grown up kids) with 2 jobs. They work 16+ hours each day but with pandemic there was nothing else to do, so might as well do more work. At least, one guy is pretty open about it with both of his employers. Others hide it but they get the work done.

Also you can list 2 jobs on your resume. When I started my career, I didn't had very high paying tech job, I did freelance work on the side and listed on my resume. Never been problem.

Your company doesn't own you.


👤 jarolinvargas
I'm interested in the answers here. I'm considering doing this given that my current role is pretty laid back.

👤 msarrel
Not an answer to the question, but pertinent. I'm hiring and I recently extended an offer to someone and that person responded by saying it wasn't enough money. Our HR department and I went through all the different salary surveys and we determined our offer was fair. The person countered by saying That was the amount of money that they needed. I said okay please submit a consulting contract. They submitted a consulting contract with someone else's name on it. I called them and they said "oh yeah, you caught me, I was trying to bill two different companies for full time."

Not hired.


👤 mrcartmeneses
Seems like a recipe for burnout to me.

But I burn myself out just doing one job anyway. Because for some reason if I’ve not out-delivered everyone else by an order of magnitude then I’m not satisfied


👤 captainbland
No chance. I guess maybe contractors might get away with it in some circumstances but I don't see how it works in conventional FT agile teams with regular ceremonies, meetings, etc. Plus I value my free time, which I know is weird.

👤 akhmatova
If you're two-timing on clients / employers (that is, plainly working two FT jobs at once) -- you can't expect that to end well.

If you're working > 50 hours a week (or whatever your personal limit is) for more than 1-2 months -- that won't end well for your health or business relationships, either.

That's the score, basically.


👤 b20000
a while ago i juggled 2 contracting gigs. they each paid X per hour which is a quarter to half of what you need as a full time self employed person in CA. employees in companies hiring contractors do not understand the math of self employment and thus expect unrealisticly low hourly rates. so we end up with this situation. i found that the max hourly rate for software development in general is about double of western europe. however, the cost of living there is a quarter of what it is in CA. TL;DR companies in CA in general are unaware of the enormous cost of living in CA partly driven by FAANGs. so anyone not working in FAANG ends up juggling multiple jobs. sort of like baristas but not yet as bad.

👤 intellix
I'm on both sides of this. I've started 2x companies at the same time (one where I work 9-6 and the other which I work around 6-12 and all weekend) so I'm literally working all the time. Initially it made me struggle in my 9-6 because typically when I don't understand something, I'd spend my outside hours reading into things or do some extra work to finish up... but now I appear as a standard developer instead of a 10x and it's frustrating as hell.

The side project one has become vastly more successful and lucrative than my 9-6 and it's starting to creep into that time as well, with many employees asking me for information throughout the day and asking me to quickly help with things. I've told my 9-6 that I need to quit because it doesn't make sense but don't want to suddenly leave and harm the perspective value of the company. Both places know the other exists and I've really tried to keep them separate but it was easier when I was working in a vastly different timezone because I could juggle them both easier (get lots of valuable work done whilst nobody is online and feel like the day is already achieved).

Now the other side of it which really pisses me off massively, is that for the side-job I've had to build a front/backend team to deliver things and it's fairly big now but it's 100% remote and we have no office (even before COVID). Some people that you hire are rockstars, others are just ok and then there's the guys who scheduling issues for meetings, suddenly become more active for a week when you notice they're not doing anything, push almost nothing.

I wasn't aware of r/overemployed but it's been clear to me that this is a common scam for a long time. People start off great and then they suddenly stop delivering, which was making me start to really hate this remote stuff.

We've applied a few things systematically to try and prevent the overemployed scam: - Daily geekbot standup reports of what you did yesterday, today and what's blocking you

- Detailed weekly geekbot standup reports of what you managed to achieve during the week and what you're still working on (the people who stand out are the ones who are continuously working on the same items each week. The "detailed" is the part that really shown us the cockroaches hiding in the woodwork)

- Each release has commit log with the author next to each (it shows who is delivering)

- Enforced daily pushes - even if you're not yet complete with your work, you should be committing every day, so if we need to investigate, we can see what you're actually doing on a daily basis. We had people who would only push chunks every couple of days or every week and it was hard work reading through it, to see if it looked meaty enough.

- HR Slack channel with automated leave calendar notifications, so you can see who's booked off for the day, with requests being approved by HR (everyone knows who is around for the day) and also if you need to disappear for an hour or two, you can write it, so everything is more transparent and people can be honest about being AFK.

We have a project manager, who we thought would keep tabs on the velocity of each developer and catch out who wasn't delivering much, but it really didn't help and it took management to notice something was wrong with various people.

We've got stricter over time. At first we were getting abused due to lack of time and process and it was mega depressing having so many people and not seeing things progress with the product and feeling like you were being scammed but now due to the process it's not that bad IMO.

I can't wait to quit my 9-6 so that I'm able to be more hands on with the other and not have to work around the clock. Most of my work in the side job is trying to improve processes, unblock people and code in things to reduce the reliance on me so things are smoother.


👤 earphonesthrow
i'm working remotely from EU but company thinks i'm still in US

👤 sdevonoes
Elon Musk, probably.