HACKER Q&A
📣 bArray

Alternatives to DuckDuckGo?


In light of recent news, DuckDuckGo CEO Gabriel Weinberg suggests the search engine will now filter results based on recent political events [1]. For those considering or aware of alternatives, what are they?

For me, DuckDuckGo was supposed to represent private (not selling user data), unbiased (i.e. apolitical), fast search results. Ideally a replacement would meet as many of these goals as possible. Some alternatives I'm aware of:

* Searx - https://searx.github.io/searx/

* Brave search - https://search.brave.com/

Note this is not a discussion about the morality of DuckDuckGo's recent actions.

[1] https://news.yahoo.com/duck-duck-go-reverses-course-will-dem...


  👤 diego_moita Accepted Answer ✓
Enthusiastic DDG user, here.

I don't understand the mental gymnastics that sees filtering out propaganda as "biased".

I see it actually as the opposite, as removing an intentional bias, as removing an intentional manipulation by the propaganda agent himself.

Compare to spam-filtering in your email: when you remove the noise, you get a better signal/noise ratio. When you hide information under a pile of noise you are actually "biasing".

There is no such thing as political-neutral information.

And if you believe that you alone, as an individual, have all the resources to efficiently filter out political manipulation in the information you receive then you're probably very close to the QAnon bunch.


👤 lizardactivist
Some alternatives:

qwant.com, based in the EU, using their own index without tracking.

ecosia.org, based in the EU, backed by Bing but with their own algorithm for filtering the results.

startpage.com, based in the EU, backed by anonymized Google results.

swisscows.com, based in the EU, backed by anonymized Bing results.

(this is not an advert for EU-based search engines, these just happen to be the ones that I know of)


👤 stevenhubertron
I’m not sure how deranking lies affects it’s privacy or speed but you clearly have an bone to pick with DDG which in my opinion is a great product that more should use.

👤 hk1337
My understanding is they’re demoting Russian propaganda, not filtering it. It’ll still be there just not at the top of the results. That’s kind of what you want from a search engine, to return the more relevant and factual results at the top.

👤 soueuls
I agree with this and I feel that page ranking algorithms and their variants (depending on whether you want to boost novelty, controversy, contrarian articles, whatever) is already doing a good job at filtering out full propaganda.

And Russian propaganda is probably already taken care of because the rare moments I decide to search for information about the conflict, the only little propaganda I stumble upon is coming from Ukraine (over exaggerated body count, Snake Island, etc). Nothing new under the sun, fog of war is obviously expected and natural.

But this kind of censorship is clearly impeding my capacity to grow my worldview. And I don't trust the West more than the Russians (Irak's weapons of mass destruction anyone?)

I own a fairly big media in France and we have been covering the conflict, we made two videos on war communication tactiques and it's pretty bad from both side. Ukraine is using propaganda to drag Europe into this mess, Russian is using propaganda as usual.

It also reminds me the Covid, 1 year ago, any search about the "Wuhan leak theory" was deemed to be a "conspiracy theory", you had a hard time finding interesting resources about people digging into the idea with a scientific mindset and a desire to really figure out where that might come from. People who believed it was possible, were laugh at.

And now, it's considered plausible, nobody has a definitive answer to it, but it's a real possibility. For this reason, I don't believe in censorship from people who keeps calling the shots but who are as clueless as the rest the population.

Last but not least, like any individual I do have biases of course. But I am very wary of people who also have biases but who might have hidden motives and skin in the game.

Using the "liberal idea" of page ranking which is in my opinion a very abstract way of dealing with information (similar to the invisible hand almost) appears to me as a superior and more trustable way.

That's why, I am also leaving DDG.


👤 ricardolopes
I honestly fail to understand how downranking state-run propaganda that promotes a dictatorship's lies is considered to be a bad thing in a service that is all about providing useful information.

This isn't about silencing a political view, cancelling an unpopular opinion, or whatever. It's defending against a deliberate attack from an oppressive regime. Search engines already have to do a lot of tweaking, for instance to defend against SEO spammers. I don't know how can this be controversial.

Anyway, answering your question, I use and like Ecosia. I've heard good things from Brave Search, but haven't tested it yet.



👤 jppope
I recommend search.brave.com... though the privacy stuff is great, Brave is great for developers because they provide code snippets right in the search. HUGE time saver

👤 juniordevv
You’ve already mentioned https://search.brave.com

But I’d vote again for them. Independent index, US based.


👤 bil7
not addressing the morality but simply the reason: DDG is complying with EU sanctions.

👤 Program_Install
I have to imagine that if your search and/or use of keywords is specific enough, you will find exactly what you are looking for regardless of the search engine you are currently using. In the end, everyone has an agenda, from both ends and everything in-between.

👤 omarhaneef
I don’t think unbiased results can exist in the sense that every ranking algorithm has an objective function that is essentially a bias.

You might say, hey I just mean political bias. But consider what that means. When does it not show up?

Search for front end frameworks and there is no question that rankings will be “political” in the sense that the ranking will favor some things over others. (Example: this ranking shows React, Svelte and Vue because it over weights popularity and doesn’t give my obscure but mighty framework any oxygen!)

If you search for the history of any battle (just to take us away from the present conflict), I doubt two experts agree on the salient aspects let alone two algorithms.


👤 throwmeariver1
You know you could have just asked about alternatives instead of bringing up the thing you didn't want to bring up or discuss in the first place AND argument about it in the next sentence. Especially when your arguments show that you took the first best thing that ticked the marks without looking further into the corporation behind it. Without a doubt you also could have found a lot of alternatives by searching first because we had search discussions for about 2-3 months every week but whatever.

The best alternative for me is kagi.com but you need an invite and in the end you need to pay for it.


👤 harryf
I’ll just live dangerously and out https://yandex.com/ in here. They actually have great results for many things including local businesses (when you’re in Switzerland). Of course they’re Russian and may get blocked soon

👤 djakaitis
Google

👤 wolverine876
Search engines are filters: They filter the entire Internet down to just 5-10 links using various standards. I wish accuracy was an even higher priority for them.

👤 nojito
Ranking search results by definition cannot be unbiased.

👤 Finnucane
Well, if you really want your Russian troll garbage, use Yandex.