HACKER Q&A
📣 Gigachad

Will consumers ever have a use for 10Gbit internet


I had this discussion with a friend. While 10Gbit Ethernet seems to be slowly dripping in to consumer hardware, it seems much less clear if users will ever actually have a use for 10Gbit networking.

If we look at the biggest network uses for consumers right now, its mostly video streaming and games. A 1 Gbit connection can already stream video at well above the maximum desired quality we will likely ever want. And better codecs are coming out which reduce the networking requirements even more. For video games it seems that large games would go with an asset streaming model like microsoft flight sim which can easily be done with 1 Gbit.

Are there any future developments that might make 10Gbit desirable in the consumer space?


  👤 bob1029 Accepted Answer ✓
I've been playing with streaming app/game delivery techniques, and can see where a 10x pipe might help a lot.

There is a tradeoff that has to be made when you use an efficient interframe compression algorithm (i.e. x264 or mpeg). Latency becomes a factor, and you lose the ability to instantly seek/generate a given frame without keeping track of the ones that occurred prior. You also need specialized hardware or high performance CPUs on both sides. This also has issues tolerating high frequency visual changes between frames.

When using an intraframe technique (i.e. jpeg), none of the caveats apply, with the exception of 1 new one - The amount of bandwidth required is increased substantially if you intend to serve a sequence of these approximating a video (a la mjpeg).

I've had a lot of people give me grief for this idea, but I assure you a sequence of jpegs at 60fps looks like some kind of magic butter compared to the same encoded with more efficient techniques. Especially, when you put a human in the loop with an input device. You literally don't have to worry about the type of content at all. It just looks good always. The range of devices that can quickly encode (<10ms) jpeg at 30+ fps is surprisingly large (basically anything with a cpu made in the last decade).

I've almost memorized the most important bits of libjpegturbo by this point. Can't say I've even begun to scratch the surface on the likes of AV1, etc. Don't think I'd really like to just seeing the shadow of the damn thing. This kind of simplicity has benefits that can be hard to quantify.

Any time I can make some tradeoff like this, I like to think into the future. Is the speed of the average connection going to increase or decrease from this point? Do we need 100% of the planet to have 10GbE before we can begin exploring these ideas?


👤 dusted
Ever? Yes, of course. Right now ? No.

10Gbit/s Internet connectivity sounds like a lot, but it's only 10 times the speed of what we have now.

Think about RAM, CPU frequency, non-volatile storage, and graphical rendering capability these have increased orders of magnitude, as have Internet connection speed.

I don't know what it will be used for, but I'm certain that new use-cases will reveal themselves as that speed becomes broadly available.

It will certainly allow new business models, for things like storage of raw video and video editing, but broadly, I think it's unexplored territory.


👤 t-3
Throughhput drives demand. Customers aren't doing stuff that needs 10Gb/s because they don't even have 1Gb/s, not because they wouldn't if they did.

Personally, 802.11n and whatever crappy DSL link speed I get is good enough for me, but I don't do video, social media, or online gaming. I can rent access to machines much better positioned to take advantage of greater bandwidth if I ever need them.


👤 imagetic
As a media producer / video person, 10gbe has become pretty essential and commonplace. The idea of having 10gbe internet at home would change the entire work from home / media industry.

👤 GekkePrutser
I already do. I wouldn't use the full 10Gb bandwidth yet but definitely more than 1.. And I don't want to invest in stopgap tech like 2.5Gb.

The problem is the switches are still too expensive :(


👤 kats
> well above the maximum desired quality we will likely ever want

we can look at computing history and see there hasn't been a limit to what people will want. However much processing, storage, or bandwidth we had at the time, there was always use for more.


👤 brianmcc
From the comments elsewhere in the thread there are plainly some edge cases where it's actively useful.

Personally though I'm still on ~60Mbps download at home FWIW and feel simply no need to upgrade. Whole family can watch - independently - Netflix/Youtube/etc. No issues WFH while they do so. I'd find the upgrade to 100Mbps or 200Mbps quite cool from a tech point of view, having started with dial-up 25 years ago, but honestly I have no real need for it.

UltraHD - 4K - needs 25Mbps or thereabouts, remember.


👤 hollowpython
Things which currently blocked by not having 10Gbit internet (not saying that this is the only blocker):

- videocall with hundreds of people where everyone can see everyone else

- higher definition, extremely realistic VR

- instant transfer of gigantic files. I work as a data scientist and I'd love to just slack someone the result of a quick and dirty experiment on a 50GB dataset. It sounds ridiculous now, but it isn't.

- real-time collaborative editing of gigantic files (video, sound, tabular data).


👤 SynAck6
I can potentially see VR create a demand for such high bandwidth. With high resolution fully immersive videos perhaps

👤 powerapple
I am more interested in a low latency connection, which then can change everything.

👤 muzani
Right now, we have things like Android Studio and npm which are absolute bandwidth hogs. I'm sure a use will come for more bandwidth. I never thought I'd need anything past 1 Mbps, but it can be the bottleneck for build times now.

One thing I didn't have enough bandwidth for was doing a presentation on Google Meet to a group of people, presenting a 4K screen. I suspect it does several 1 to 1 connections, rather than broadcasting, which would explain the drop in performance when presenting to a group.


👤 hedora
Uploading raw videos from a DSLR, or data sets for photogrammetry.

👤 badrabbit
Keep in mind, what you're really asking is "will consumers have a need to use over 900Mb/s pipe" , In burst... yeah, I can see that being needed in the next few years with streaming+gaming+p2p , sustained? Not in the next ~5yrs af least.

Even if the need is there, ISP+Transit cores are not up to it. But it does make a lot of sense to have a 10Gbe last mile with 500Mb/s sustained(without oversubscription) and 10Gb/s burst usage. Especially in metro-areas.


👤 theodric
Once they finish convincing sheeple that they need 8k or 16k or 128k TVs to perpetuate the endless cycle of obsolescence, perhaps.

👤 teepo
In the consumer space the trends I'm following are more aligned to the various 5G spectrum roll-outs. I think there's an approaching inflection point where consumers will be routing (or be QOS'ed) by their Telco ISPs to either a fiber network or wireless.

I imagine telco consumer routers becoming a MEP.


👤 herbst
What about 3-5 people doing their own streaming on a single line? 1Gbit, especially a busy one, could be not enough.

Imagine one of them downloading huge steam games every other day while others live stream.

I know it's pure luxury, but when I had a 10gbit I enjoyed having it.


👤 karmakaze
Probably. Do you use more than 640KB memory?

Having more bandwidth makes new things possible. So the question isn't what do people do now that can make use of 10Gbit, but rather if everyone had 10Gbit what could be done that we can't do now.


👤 bick_nyers
Symmetric connections (upload_speed = download_speed) have much more utility imo, and we should focus on getting that in the consumer-space before we focus on 10Gbit.

👤 unraveller
Put youtube level infrastructure in every pocket and lets see what other man-made horrors we can come up with.

👤 oraoraoraoraora
Do cars ever get driven at their maximum rated speed, no, but its nice to know its possible and to have the choice to do so.

👤 throw_this_one
No, no use for consumers tbh

👤 debdut
More things will be offloaded to the server