Why is there no small Android phone?

I maintain this chart of small Android phones, maybe it helps:

https://www.productchart.com/smartphones/small_android_phone...

You can move the "RAM" slider to 3GB which will show the phones that have 3GB or more. And the screen slider to your desired size. A height of 140mm means the phone would have a display size of roughly 5 or 6 inches.

For the USA, it gives me 90 phones with 3GB and up to 6 inches.

I'd love to see research to back up or refute this, but I think it's driven by cost and later justified through marketing. The larger a phone is, the larger components can be used, and the less design work needs to be done to ensure that everything fits without causing thermal issues or cross-talk. After that, you get a lot of marketing to establish that a bigger screen is inherently better, rather than being a design flaw.

In my opinion, a phone should be small enough that it can fit in the palm of one hand, with every part of the screen reachable with the thumb of that hand. Unfortunately, screen sizes have been creeping up with each generation, and it's impossible to find reasonably sized phones anymore.

I think it's got a lot to do with tech journalists reaming Sony for their design language on the Xperia line. Every article I read on the XZ1C was whinging about it, too blocky, too bezel... Not an exact replica of Samsung/Apple... And then they started with their new line, and it no longer satisfies the niche, but it satisfied the journalists that weren't ever in the target demo anyways.

From a manufacturers point of view its a really hard sale, a smaller device will alway have 'poor' battery life or use a less powerful cpu to keep the battery life on par with bigger phones. Either way reviewers will tank it for either of these reasons. As well as not enough room for a flagship camera array, again reviewers will pan it for this reason also.

Couple that with a niche audience and the cost of ordering a batch of different sized screens (in smaller quantities), it's just not that attractive a market to get into.

In short, they would be trying to sell a device with smaller profits that they KNOW will get panned by reviewers to a niche audience.

Interesting to read all the supposed systemic reasons that manufacturers do not want to serve the market for a compact phone. Is it the lack of a flagship camera array? Battery life? Screen size? Less powerful but battery-thrifty CPUs? The fear of a hostile review from the press?

These all sound plausible, except for one thing: Why does Apple sell the SE (which is rumoured to be due for a refresh in March), the iPhone 12 mini, and now the iPhone 13 mini? Are Apple unaware of all the reasons why they can't make money selling a compact phone?

Apple have literally no reason to sell these phones except to make money. It's not like the market is flooded with compact Android phones and they have to sell a compact phone or lose out. With a dearth of good competitive options, Apple could decline to sell a compact phone and still make out like bandits.

I conclude that there is a market for selling compact phones, and Apple is doing just fine in it. If there's a systemic reason compact phones won't sell on Android, there must be an android-specific factor in play, because clearly there is a demand for these phones and a willingness to pay a premium to buy one from Apple.

I asked this question so many times. For a long a time I was a big fan of the Xperia Z Compact line... Now, Sony also stopped making these smaller phones...

I switched to Pixel 5 recently. I am happy with it, the main reason I wanted/liked the smaller phones so I could reach everything with my thumb and I could use the phone with one hand.

The advantage of Pixel 5 (and other newer phones) is that they are very thin, so it is easier to hold in one hand. The other thing that just got introduced with Android 12 is the one-handed mode, that I use a lot. With these two things in mind I have to say, I don't mind the size of the phone.

A family member of mine put it that way: I need a big screen, how else am I going to do gaming and netflix on there? I still can not reason with why you would want that but apparently this is what the mayority wants... Personally, I want a small phone too. I have pretty large hands, so I am comfortable with up to 150mm height, but I have other requirements that somehow limit me to two phones right now. [0] Especially I want a recent model because there are so many flaws in processors that you always have to have a recent one to be kind of secure -.- Sadly the Asus seems to have crap support and the pixel is quite old already. I currently just hope that the Pixel 6a is smaller then the leaks suggest. In the mean time I bought a Pixel 4a as a stop-gap solution.

[0] https://geizhals.eu/?cat=umtsover&xf=10063_11.0%7E157_131072...

Apple is supposedly discontinuing the iPhone mini though, so presumably the demand isn't really there.

I think the big issue with small Android phones is battery life. Apple was already getting some flak for it, and between the SoC and OS, it's a much more power efficient system.

Samsung Galaxy S10e, 142 mm high, 6 or 8 gigs of RAM.

https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/galaxy-s10/specs/

And LineageOS is offically supported https://wiki.lineageos.org/devices/beyond0lte/

I have a Palm Phone that's pretty darn small. https://palm.com/pages/product

There's terrific small Android Phones.

The Jelly 2: https://www.unihertz.com/products/jelly-2

  Dimensions:  95*49.4*16.5mm
  Weight:   110g (with battery)
  CPU:      Helio P60 Octa-Core, 2.0GHz
  Operating System:  Android 10
  Memory:   6GB+128GB UFS 2.1

I used to work in the touchscreen space, and from what I've anecdotally heard is that screen makers take little or no input from their customers, unless you are Apple or Samsung. They are doing fine with the big sizes, maybe they have determined that releasing smaller phones will cannibalize their sales or they don't want to adjust their software for two screen sizes. And smaller vendors can't get customized screens for a competitive price, so they have to take what is on the market.

You see the same phenomenon in the laptop market. Device size is designed around screen size, and you can only get certain sizes like 13.3", 15.6". Apple is one of the few companies that controls their own screen manufacturing.

Personnaly I love small phones and I am stuck with a Samsung Galaxy A3... released in 2017. It is 135.4 x 66.2 x 7.9 mm and has a super-AMOLED screen, 3GB RAM and Knox layer for secure corporate enrollment. You cannot find smaller or as small devices with such specs since 2017. The downsides ? It has a 16GB Rom (it has a SD card but less and less apps can be moved on the SD card) and the battery will not last forever (even if until now it resists very well). The smallest and modern device I have spotted since then is the Asus Zenfone 8 but it is bigger than the Galaxy A3 2017: 148 x 68.5 x 8.9 mm

Slightly related, but I was surprised while browsing AliExpress about the existence of really tiny Android phones, as in slightly bigger than a key chain. Later on I've learned through a news piece that these devices are used to bypass prisons' security checks (they probably fit in our orifices). Crazy world out there!

I had the torture to look for a new phone recently and one of my requirements was also a small size coming from a Pixel 3a (about 150mm iirc).

If you're looking for a small but flagship Android then there's currently only the Asus ZenFone (expensive) or the Galaxy phones (s21, a52) which are reasonable in size. But at least the Samsung are full of bloatware.

I think the main reason not more are being built because it's hard to fit in a decent battery and the latest hardware needs more power so phones get bigger.

Smallest I could find is this: https://www.alza.sk/cubot-king-kong-mini-2-cerveny-d6482813....

Cubot King Kong Mini 2 - 1080x540 IPS, 3GB, 120GB flash, dual sim, 119mm x 58mm x 12mm, 123g, Mediatek MT6761, 3000 mAh, USB-C, Android 10, 100€

I don't know. I hate iOS with a burning passion, but the SEs/minis are the only devices that fit in my hand and have software support.

Android needs a way for OEMs to get some worthwhile profit in more than one market segment, and loading their own proprietary OSes isn't it.

It's honestly been 7 years since a had a smartphone I was excited about.

Ulefone X series have 5 to 5.5 inch screens: https://www.ulefone.com/c/armor-x-series-0430

Unihertz makes even smaller phones: https://www.unihertz.com/en-de/collections/all-products

There are also some other small-time companies, but the major players are stuck in bigger-is-better mode, unfortunately :/

I'm personally much more worried about width not height... And it seems only Sony has some to offer.

The closest (proper) android equivalent to me is the Pixel 4a (at 144mm height). Unfortunately the 5a and (leaked specs) of the 6a are both gigantic and is unfortunate to me.

It does a lot of things right: is a (relatively) smol phone, has proper software updates/support, has a headphone jack, allows for bootloader unlocking, support eSIM, has usb3, has a large development community for custom roms/after-market support, and has proper noise cancellation for calls (many other OEMs don't have proper noise cancellation leading to echos all the time)

The other contenders are all either larger (but better hardware value), had worse software support, or had a combination of the previous.

I will however give a nod to OnePlus for allowing QFIL flashing and having those files available for when devices are soft-bricked/stuck in EDL mode so you can always rescue them. However, their software leaves a lot to be desired in both long term software updates (older models are often not given timely updates), and in refinement (ex. my OnePlus 6T constantly echos on phone calls).

A note if you're going to go Pixel line: if you ever decide to root, MAKE SURE you flash the correct model's files. I've seen several times online and had a friend flash the wrong model and end up perma-bricking their phones. Google does /not/ release the QFIL/firehose files for their phones (unlike OnePlus, Xiaomi) so if you make this mistake you WILL have to send it back for a motherboard replacement. If you don't have warranty coverage, that phone is permanently bricked. Make sure you flash the right files.

https://www.unihertz.com/collections/smartphones/products/je...

Jelly 2 is small and quite usable for its tiny nature.

I walked into a Verizon shop last week, held up my old (large) Samsung S9+, and said I was looking for a smaller phone. They said nope, we don't have anything smaller. The S9+ was one of the larger options when I bought it. Now they're almost all huge.

So I bought a 6" tall Pixel 5 elsewhere, not quite as small as you're looking for, but a great phone, and it feels tiny compared to the S9+.

Tiny smartphones are available in the more advanced countries.[1] You can find similar products by searching for "tiny smartphone" on Amazon.

[1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Free-Shipping-2-5-Inc...

A few years ago I read something that opened my eyes about smartphones - the larger they got the better battery life they got. It makes sense:

- Screens use energy as the square of their diagonal dimension.

- Batteries store energy as the square of their diagonal dimension.

So it's a wash? No! Since there are other things inside the phone whose dimensions are essentially fixed (the phone itself), the proportion of battery area to the screen area tends to one as the phone gets larger. My 2016 iPhone SE (daily driver) has a battery about a third the size of the phone. I can imagine that an iPhone 13 Pro has a battery at least 2/3s the total size.

So you have to choose two of three: Battery life, fast phone (uses more power), or small phone.

I chose: none of the above. My next phone will be a Pinephone no matter what it's dimensions, battery life or performance is. We have to break the power of Big Tech.

Almost-same question 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158

(I'm still happy with my xperia 10 III. Tall phone, but only 68mm width)

As a big small-phone advocate (I switched from Android to an iPhone 8 specifically for its size), I am interested in that question and - especially how everybody else is dealing with their large phones. I am in the top 1% of body height (6'4) and totally puzzled how everybody is carrying their phones. I mean I get woman who mostly carry a purse and can fit a large phone. But I myself often leave the house without any bags and use just my pant-pockets to store my wallet, keys and phone. At my height, any Phone larger than 5" is defintely uncomfortable when taking the stairs, let alone cycling etc. How do you all solve this?

It simply doesn't sell. While I like smaller phones, I'm forced to buy a larger phone because the specs in a smaller phone are quite low and doesn't perform well and so larger phones outsell smaller ones by a factor of 20.

> The fact that Apple released 3 phones in 3 years with this form factor shows me that it is a profitable market segment and that there is demand.

Correlation does not imply causation. Apple might also be releasing them to use their old manufactured parts, Apple has a very healthy recycle plan for users who trade in their phones, not all Android OEMs have that. And Apple likes to boast about how environmentally friendly they are. 2 of 3 phones you mentioned are using some older parts.

So the releasing could purely be reuse some old parts thus reducing the manufacturing costs, and gain a little higher profit on these despite having low sale numbers from these.

There are small phones:

https://www.unihertz.com/collections/all-products

They just aren't popular because they have a lot of tradeoffs.

Because it is less effective to show ads on a small phone.

Thanks OP, I'm asking this myself for last 3 years.

I think I'm gonna stick with my Xperia XZ2 Compact until it literally breaks apart. It's been quite good last 3 years.

I couldn't find any Android phone under 140mm since then.

Often I see the argument that smaller phones have smaller batteries. But still phones these days are very thin, I wouldn't mind if it'd a bit thicker but provided me with more battery life.

That's why I stuck with an S4 for so long; there just wasn't a good replacement that met my requirements. I finally got an S10e a couple years ago, which has been pretty good. It's still a little bigger than I would like, but... Many people want the larger phones for various reasons and many others don't seem to care. Those of us who want smaller phones seem to be a minority, so we don't get many options. It's a similar story with headphone jacks...

The Apple rumor mill suggests that this is the year that the iPhone Mini ends.

It's a lot in the eye of the beholder.

Small phone ? Iphone SE 2020: 4.7" screen. Niiiice ! Large Phone ? Asus Zenphone 8, 5.9" screen. Too huuuuge :-(

except... with bezels, Iphone's body is 5.45" (138.4mm), Zenfone is 5.83" (148mm). a very small difference in height (less than 0.5"/1cm), for a screen that's... 38% bigger.

I work in this field. I think a major factor is that there just isn’t enough demand for phones of this size. When one releases, it’s always a bit of a flop.

However, depending on your interests I feel like there are some decent products on the market:

- Galaxy Z Flip3; it’s actually quite nice. I don’t think the technology is quite there yet, so you’d be an early adapter. Depending on how much you want a small phone, might be worth it. - Galaxy S22 (It’s 146mm, so a bit over) - Alcatel 1 (2021), very budget but compact (138mm)

Then there are phones from some brands I barely know: Doro, Emporia come to mind. iirc CrossCall also has a compact phone. And other brands mentioned in this thread.

Lastly, there’s a niche market of old style phones with whatsapp/browser support. No nice keyboards on those though, check the Nokia 6300 if you want to see what I’m on about.

If you want decent screen and specs though, the S22 is the best bet.

ASUS Zenfone 8 is probably the closest mainstream Android phone you’ll get. It’s 144mm tall.

https://www.asus.com/Mobile/Phones/ZenFone/Zenfone-8/

Sadly, there are rumours that Apple is ditching the mini series i.e iphone 14 variants will have a iphone 14 max and iphone 14 max pro separately instead of the mini version.

I use a iphone 12 mini because of the lack of android alternative and I'm sad to see my last resort go :(

Smallest android smart phone I found, 83x40mm.

https://www.amazon.com/Sudroid-Unlocked-Smartphone-Smallest-...

How about:

https://www.gsmarena.com/oppo_find_n-11267.php

Dimensions: Unfolded: 132.6 x 140.2 x 8.0 mm Folded: 132.6 x 73 x 15.9 mm

Internal: 256GB 8GB RAM, 512GB 12GB RAM

A bit on the expensive side though...

> The fact that Apple released 3 phones in 3 years with this form factor shows me that it is a profitable market segment and that there is demand.

I don't think this is necessarily a good conclusion. Typically planning and design of a phone happens at least 2 years in advance. This means that they may have been lining up manufacturing contracts for the iPhone 13 mini before they had decisive evidence on the profitability of the iPhone SE. Also note that the profitability of the SE may well have been based on price more than size.

I think if they release another one then it is likely that they do find it profitable and one next year would be pretty strong evidence.

I asked a similar question in the Razr smartphone era: why isn't there a phone I can easily plug into my computer and move around pictures and music like a thumb drive?

I suspect the answer is this: a market restricted by NDAs and closed source software that stifles innovation, and a marketing department that caters towards the YouTube front page / influencers. (Or at least, their perception of that.)

But I suspect in another way, things that made Android awesome initially, like replaceable batteries, became an undesired feature as battery technology progressed. My screen will break, or I'll want a new phone before the battery gives out.

Rakuten Hand 5G (released in 2022) is 138x63x9.5mm, RAM4GB, and Snapdragon 480G. But it's only available only in Japan and only support eSIM. There are other local weird tiny phones: Balmuda Phone, mode1 GRIP.

Here are some well known brands:

https://palm.com

https://www.emporia.eu/en/home

I would kill for an iPhone mini sized pixel. I use a Pixel 4a and even that's bigger than I'd like. When it dies, if there's still only giant pixels, I'm just going to buy another one used.

It's probably off-topic as the question is about Android phones, but I want to vent: I'm using a Librem 5 and I'd love it to be smaller (not necessarily thinner, thickness doesn't bother me at all). I think slightly larger than N900 would be perfect. That said, larger size makes it much easier to pack the electronics, have reasonable thermals and large enough battery for these kind of phones, so it's not like it's just a design choice that could have been easily changed.

In many respects I much prefer my prior Android (Pixel 4) over the Pixel 6 XL I have now, I just didn't want to have a phone with an inferior camera (mobile photography is a big interest of mine) and the 4 was losing support.

I keep the 4 going for certain things and every time I pick it up it's a joy because it's so compact.

No risk of dropping it, unlike the new one which I've stuck tennis racquet grip on the case to help! (it doesn't look as stupid as it sounds!)

The S22 is actually really close, only 6mm off. Many consider it a small form factor.

Balmuda Phone is tiny, and meets your criteria, but I think it's Japan only.

I'm using 4.7" Samsung A3 (2017) and I was quite happy with it. But it's becoming outdated with no new alternatives, unfortunately.

It will be interesting to see how foldables will fit into this (pun intended). Devices like the Motorola Razr Fold and Samsungs Z Flip for example. Of course once opened they are still pretty large phones but at least compactness while carrying and width seem promising. Plus reasonable battery life and cameras, both features that small phones too often have to do without unfortunately.

I always figure that the market is like a normal distribution, and companies are staking out segments thereof.

Apple may have had a product in that form factor, but is that segment stagnant? Do they have it sewn up? Can a profit be turned by competing there?

If there is better margin with an S22 large enough to land a drone, then that direction is where efforts will tend.

There are. Xiaomi makes smaller phones of high quality. Check out the Mi 9 SE or the upcoming small Redmi for examples.

Minis are just a poor man's iPhones. Apple should offer something for lower market segment, but it should be visibly inferior to their other models. Thus, the size.

Android ecosystem has models cheap enough for quarter of minis price, and it still would be a decent phone with decent screen and other specs.

Previous discussion from 3 months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287158

Fat fingers? It's hard enough to type on a touchscreen. I'm on what used to be called a "phablet" sized phone and I still make mistakes all the time.

Same reason there is almost no phones with clean android - manufacturers focus on marketing and follow easiest path, instead of really caring about users needs.

There's this?

https://palm.com/pages/product

My guess would be that at least one reason is that they figured out that bigger screens are more addictive?

I wanted HP Veer

placed an order during the fire sale season of HP TouchPad but order got cancelled

that was a cute one (WebOS)

But there is. The Xcover 5 is 147.5mm tall and 5.3 inches diagonally: https://m.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_xcover_5-10718.php

The issue is battery life. Apple has figured that out for small phones, but no one has figured out how to make a small android phone with similar battery life to an iphone se.

I have a Unihertz Jelly 2, and I love it

Palm had a small option recently.

Try Samsung A40

rakuten hand. japan domestic

> Ask HN: Why is there no small Android phone?

Because big brands are marketing driven. Most of marketing people are followers. They see Samsung Note being a blockbuster, and all copy.

Very few marketing people can play their own line, because they don't know how.

If look who puts innovation into the space, you see most successful new things, and especially lifestyle products being introduced by outsiders:

Samsung Note — an enthusiast product launched for SK domestic market largely on engineering's own initiative,

Asus EEE — Asus's business higher-ups were very sceptical, but were overruled by Chairman Shih,

Apple Iphone - no comments needed

"Why doesn't X exist?" Because people generally don't want it.

i deleted my acc cause i got rated limited