Asking because I’ve noticed a trend over my years of software that the best developers don’t drink coffee and don’t appear to consume caffeine in any other forms (at least not at work).
Just looking for anecdotes!
Since I didn't feel better and I like coffee, I started drinking that again.
Regarding caffeine, I would drink a lot of soda each day, like 4+ Mexican cokes. The first month is terrible. You will have an initial withdrawal, then just be in a slump. I am the type of programmer to work on side projects after work and I couldn't. I decided to give it a month, but was legit considering starting again just because of that.
First month mega slump. Second month it's getting better. After that you're no longer dependent.
It's amazing how dependent everyone is on it. You hear, oh it doesn't really affect me, I just like the flavor of coffee, but I don't buy it. People are super addicted and coping. Caffeine doesn't give yourl energy, it just takes away the symptoms of your withdrawal.
Note, it did not fix my sleep schedule. Bright screens are kinda the last factor I can blame for that so I'm experimenting with eink and reflective lcd screens.
You don't need it. Water is the one true beverage. It's amazing how little water most people drink.
I felt very relaxed for much of the time, though anxiety never fully left. Much more productive in the late afternoons when I'd normally crash. Probably a bit less productive but not worried about being less productive.
In the end I went back. I guess for the taste and the ritual, but partly I think there is a net productivity gain when one consumes mild caffeine and isn't too anxious in general.
Ergo I suspect the best software developers are the fit and healthy ones.
In my steady state today, I notice these differences being off caffeine:
1. easier time staying asleep and general better rested
2. easier to fall asleep
3. outside of age and health, I feel in someways body-wise as I did in my teens with less variability between high days and low days in terms of feeling of wellbeing
4. less trash and mess in the kitchen to clean up
5. less staining of the teeth (FWIW, my dentist said to me a month ago, "I don't tell this to patients very often, but you don't need to do anything differently in how you're caring for your teeth. Your teeth are the best they can be for your age.")
6. less likely to just load up on caffeine to push through some drudgerous project as an all-day thing
7. in the TMI space, but there's never a sense of bowel urgency
What's not different:
1. work performance (so far as I can tell)
Moderation! Same with everything.
Quitting caffeine seems like dopamine fasting or one of these other professional class fads that comes up every few months nowadays.
One thing to note is that once you quit you will not be able to really use caffeine effectively at the same level you are currently using it.
I recently had some caffeine, and after being off it for so long, it was actually very unpleasant. I felt like a cpu that got overclocked and was overheating. It didn't really make me any more productive, it just made feel like wow I'm really up right now, too far up and I want to be back to normal, but I can't until the caffeine passes through my system. And just that feeling of being trapped in the "high" and being unable to get out was very disturbing to me personally.
So I quit entirely for medical reasons. No caffeine + medication has entirely eliminated my physical symptoms of anxiety. I definitely miss it sometimes though, I feel like I am still more groggy in the mornings than I used to be.
My experiments in quitting / reducing caffeine were similar to his, mainly that the benefits of caffeine are probably greater than the costs (depending on the individual). I've reduced my consumption by switching to half decaf and now when I feel like it, I can rekindle that euphoria by opting for a strong espresso drink. I notice more the anxiety that too much caffeine can cause, but I also am more mindful of the simple pleasure that comes with a coffee that I enjoy almost every day.
As far as mind altering substances go, coffee may have some of the least guilt or lowest consequences from being enjoyed.
Personally, I stopped drinking coffee for around 9mos while wrestling with insomnia. The insomnia I knew was stress related, but I assumed caffeine was a significant factor based on anecdotes like many of those found here. Diet, exercise, and teaching myself to better deal with stress seemed to take care of the insomnia (which lasted well after I stopped drinking coffee.)
I didn’t notice any change in problem solving, creativity, etc., and ultimately I went back to drinking it. Like others here, I enjoy the taste and the ritual. If anything, I saw a productivity boost when I started drinking it again.
I drink less caffeinated coffee these days though. It turns out that a lot of caffeine can be bad for retinal health, so if you’re very near-sighted or far-sighted, definitely consider dialing the caffeine back a bit if you drink a lot.
That being said, I am back on caffeine again because I realized that it acts as a mild anti-depressant for me. It seems to have an effect on my dopaminergic system as well and helps me focus and get stuff done. Since I started drinking coffee again, I have not had a day where I do not feel like doing anything (not even goofing off) and get nothing done at all. This happened regularly when I was off caffeine. I manage the negative side effects by not drinking coffee after 2 PM and I limit myself to three cups/espresso shots per day. Seems to work as well.
So, I quit. Maybe a mild headache for a day, and feeling a pang of regret first thing in the morning. But that passed, and I stuck with it for several months without any issues and without difficulty. Maybe 6 months, I can't recall now. Perhaps the peaks and troughs in my energy levels flattened out a little, but it was so insignificant that I didn't feel any benefit.
Then one day, I thought I'd try a coffee again. Why not? So I ordered one at a café one morning on my way into work. After a few sips I felt what I can only describe as joy. I immediately wondered why the hell had I been denying myself this wonderful experience.
I'll never quit again.
As for anxiety, yes, drinking excess coffee can increase anxiety levels for me. I remedy that by mixing decaf (oh the horror) and caffeinated coffee if I want to keep drinking but I'm wary of the jitters. I brew fresh coffee in a mucha and I mix 1 scoop each of ground caf+decaf coffee. Taste is affected, but it's still pretty good.
Since then I have been enjoying my daily 2 cups in the morning, and 2 more around lunch time. I just love the taste of coffee in the morning combined with a nice sweet e-cigarette/vape flavour. But lately I've been thinking about quitting caffeine and nicotine for at least a few months to see how it affects me.
The last few years have been rough for me personally with anxiety/burnout/insomnia issues and a late ADD/autism diagnosis in my mid-30's, followed by a year of almost daily cannabis use because falling asleep without it seemed nearly impossible.
I'm off the cannabis now and on methylphenidate for the ADD and even though the medication improves my ability to focus, I'm beginning to notice that the combination of methylphenidate+caffeine+nicotine is horrible for my body and mind. Seemingly random I have sudden flashes of sweating, elevated heart rate, elevated blood pressure and falling asleep at night is still an issue.
Maybe reading this HN thread is the trigger I needed to try once more to get rid off the caffeine and nicotine. I'm not looking forward to the withdrawal headaches and likely even worse insomnia for a while.
I quit 6 months ago or so. I tried switching to teas, to supplements, none of it really helped. I moved over to drinking coffee replacements like chicory and dandelion blends because I miss having that taste in the mornings. They really, at best, taste like the cheapest instant coffee you could get, but it's a nice routine to put something in its place.
I'm calmer without it, I feel like I can sleep better, and I feel like I'm better at managing stress without it. But, that's really specific to me, I know some incredible developers who drink plenty of caffeine. It's definitely not a deciding factor and it's not something that I think speaks to anyone's character in any particular way.
I started it on my way out of the religion and realized it could even benefit what we called spiritual revelation experiences. Which was funny.
After first experiments I quit a few times but didn't notice that not using was an advantage in any way, unless I was using too much caffeine in certain specific circumstances.
After that I measured my dosages more directly and tried different stacks alongside. 2:1 L-Theanine is by far my favorite to use with caffeine.
At night I stick with a homemade cacao drink for the theobromine and maybe some cinnamon.
The best benefits to my creativity, problem solving, and coding were along the lines of learning about my psychology though, not caffeine and stuff like that.
For one, caffeine can stimulate the imagination but it's crucial to be able to recognize how and when to consciously use the imagination for personal benefit. Otherwise...what do you need to imagine, for work? You can get caught out by beginner questions like that, so you are stuck in your past even with the caffeine. Caffeine has no user manual for really leveraging the psychological effect at a subjective level, which sucks :-)
Good luck in your search.
First day: Okay
Second day: Intense, soul-crushing beating headache, it hurt so much I didn't know what was up and down, my teeth hurt, I was out of commission entirely that day. I have previous experience with pain, if I didn't know the cause of this, I would have sought out medical assistance it was bad.
Third day: Headache less intense, still photosensitive, halos, dizzy.
Fourth day: Headache almost gone
Fifth day: No headache, "oh, that easy?"
Sixth day: Pain starts in right leg, mostly in the hip joints.
Seventh day: Deep, deep excruciating pain all down the right leg, it was almost unbearable, I was twisting and turning, couldn't lie down, couldn't sit up, walking was kind of okay.
Hip pains lasted the better part of a week, it was a hellish week. Then my son was born, leg pain continued, I was useless, lack of sleep made headache return, I had a cup of cofffee, 20 minutes later I remembered how good one could feel. Now I'm back to about 2 cans of 0.5 liter monster energy + 6-10 strong cups of coffee per day.
I don't know why this was downvoted, but that's my "before and after" anecdote.
I stopped smoking many years ago (daily smokning 20+ cigs/day for multiple years), it was soooooooooo easy compared to this, because while the cravings were harder, they were only cravings combined with brain trying to make excuses, but with caffeine, the amount of physical pain I had to endure was very bad.
I might try again some time, if I ever get about a month of time where I can be alone and not have to do anything.
One of the interesting effects I noticed, is that my energy levels are more constant. No more highs, no more lows. Also, and this might be significant, my anxiety levels decreased significantly (I'd often get a mini panic attack if I drank a bit too much coffee, which happened every few days).
The thing about constant energy levels happens with sugar as well.
This allows me to have around double to time I had before of productivity. In the past, I wasted a lot of time being tired because of the "lows" of coffee / sugar, and the energy during the highs was way more than required for my daily tasks.
Having a moderate level of energy, but constant, helps me be constant in the long run and able to have a couple more hours of good work per day.
Also, life with less anxiety and stress is awesome lol. Also, some slight money savings since I liked quality coffee.
However, I didn't notice a relationship between development skills and coffee. Maybe that some smarter people around are usually more health conscious.
I’ve never consumed caffeine intentionally and never had a cup of coffee. I’m very focused and productive by default with pretty consistent energy throughout the day.
It’s interesting observing folks who consume caffeine. I notice a frantic burst of energy and lack of presence in social situations (like reading the room or not talking over others) followed by a crash of low energy and sometimes depression, rinse and repeat.
I’ve also observed folks who appear to need caffeine to function, to the point where they can’t go on a road trip, or go out for an excursion or have a slow morning at home without bending plans to accommodate some caffeine intake.
From an outsiders perspective it’s clear to me that it’s a very intense addiction for some. And I’ve yet to see examples where it felt productive or helpful or fun to be around folks on caffeine while not consuming it myself.
Although, I guess that’s probably similar to many substances where it’s not always fun to be sober around those who drink. And if someone had never tried alcohol I’m sure it’s bizarre watching people obsess over it.
I have had coffee daily, gone months without any caffeine, and currently average about one cup of coffee every week or two.
I think the best approach is experimental and data-driven. Everyone has different genes, life circumstances, sleep quality, etc., so it's hard to deduce too much from others' anecdotes. Once a week, I do a version of the Beck Depression Inventory[0] to measure my mood over the previous week. For me, daily coffee definitely causes me to be slightly depressed. I have found a cup when I really need it (which is about once every week or two) is ideal. But, whatever it is you want to optimize for (lines of code, happiness, sleep quality, etc.), make sure you are measuring, and then start experimenting!
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beck_Depression_Inventory
It took me a really long time to realize that it might be related to the caffeine. I tapered myself down by using Excedrin (65 mg per pill) and Jet-Alert (100 mg per pill) and cutting the pills smaller each day. If you're disciplined you can do that and not experience too much discomfort.
I also used "de-caffeinate"[1] which seemed like it helped, especially before bed to sleep, but I'm not positive.
[1]: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01997EVNG/ref=ppx_yo_dt...
If that's the last thing you can think of to improve your skills/life then give it a try, but I doubt that it is a decisive factor.
I've been on and off and don't really notice a difference. It's just a nice ritual, as long as you don't abuse it it has very little negative impact
I definitely feel I have more energy than before. But, I also became a father and I have a new source of energy in my life. So it's hard for me to confirm whether it's all due to caffeine or not.
My creativity and problem solving have noticeably increased and I really feel like I'm back in my 20s. But again, to be honest, I do not know if this is because of the new love of my life or the decaffeinated life.
I'm certainly busier at home, I probably sleep less than before, and I have a lot of new responsibilities as a dad, but surprisingly my output at work is significantly better than my peers and myself two years ago.
The sleep deprivation was starting to impact my physical health so I cut the caffeine out a year ago, and now it’s difficult for me to pull more than one late night a week. The sleep benefits have been great, and in that time period I moved into a chief engineer role with a lot of travel and customer interactions and less straight technical work. Overall I have higher quality output despite fewer hours of focus time, might be a different story if I was still needing to produce the same quantity of code.
I find coding tends to have a dopamine effect and keeps my brain engaged well into the night, but other activities rely on more rest to accomplish the attention to detail required.
Trick for me was to not quit cold turkey, but to slowly decrease the amount of ground coffee I used. The rest was decaf. Did this slowly over 2 weeks and then the week following stuck to decaf only, and then quit.
With regard to mood, removing caffeine was one element of eating healthier generally. This has stabilized my mood greatly. I've been much less prone to the occasional days/weeks of depression.
I personally drink one cup of filtred (V60) coffee roasted in our local roastery and grounded right before preparing.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substance_dependence#Psycholog...
Dependence on substances is really complex. Environment, genetic and your current situation matters a lot (unless you are taking Heroin, I guess).
Personally: I drink 4/6 coffees per day. Hardly any difference if I didn't drink. I usually drink coffee right before going to sleep too. For some people, it seems that coffee messes with their sleep cycle. For me, excess coffee gives me skin rashes.
As far as your questions go, I feel much better and am finding myself more productive as a whole (for comparison, I was drinking 4 double shot cortados a day back when I worked in the office). I highly recommend trying it for a couple of weeks to see.
So to tackle this from the other way around, I can tell you that before I started drinking coffee, I had more creative energy, but it was much less focused and more spur of the moment. This was great for quickly following new things I want to learn, but also abandoning them the second I lost interest or got bored. I also had much less motivation in doing things around my apartment like dishes, laundry, and other uninteresting stuff, often resulting in a pretty gross pile up of chores. Problem solving wise, I was less able to focus this greater creative energy in solving the problem, but when I could, the outcome was better. Without caffeine I also had more anxiety, which sounds backwards considering how caffeine affects the body and brain, but for whatever reason rang true for me.
Now, with a caffeine tolerance that I never thought was possible, I find I am much more level-headed, and can focus on a problem, whether its coding, chores, or doing other hobbies I didn’t have the patience for like reading etc that might not be 100% interesting at first but become so. I am also a lot more even keeled in my energy, less enthusiastic, but it doesn’t seem to be a hindrance. It’s actually improved my relationships with others since I’m less reactive to things.
I am now able to sit down and work through harder problems coding without getting as distracted (although that certainly still happens), but I feel less “creativity” in my solutions to those coding problems that come up, so its a bit of a trade off.
Part of me wants to quit caffeine to compare just one more time, but I’m now stuck in a space where if I dont have coffee at least every other day, I get severe headaches and lethargy. This is a drug, and while its great to be able to drink coffee and participate more in cafe culture, it causes very real physical symptoms if you stop consuming it.
[1] https://medium.com/@TestingInProd/building-a-caffeine-tolera...
I cut out caffeine for the most part, and only drink one or two cups on the weekends, or vacation. My energy levels are way more consistent, I can sleep soundly at night, and my mood is way more mellow and I feel overall happier.
Since then I drink green, white and herbal teas, and an occasional decaf because I do love the flavour and aroma. For me there's been no downside to stopping caffeine.
I can always sleep anyway, but I feel like going to bed sooner, sleep well, and wake up earlier with less difficulty
Although like many said can't do without the hot bitter drink to start the day. So I still drink coffee similar alternatives without caffeine:
I used to be a “heavy” drinker, 5-6 cups a day. Unfortunately, I started having really bad stomach problems. Constant acid burbs and heartburn so bad I couldn’t sleep some nights.
I tried everything. Changed coffee beans, the way I’d make it. Nothing helped.
So from one to another I switched to green tea, about a year ago. My Stich ach is great now. No more issues. I do miss the taste of coffee now and then. But overall I’m very happy to have made the switch.
Energy levels much more consistent throughout the day without it. I do miss the routine though and drinking decaf does feel a bit silly.
I also learned caffeine stays in my system much longer than I thought it did. I try very hard not to have any caffeine after 11am.
B.t.w. drinking just one cup of coffee per day breaks this symptom almost immediately. And drinking tea does not help at all.
Maybe I should add I drink coffee since very young.
After a month you feel more awake on mornings.
A couple of months after that you feel exactly the same as before.
I started drinking more tea (with and without caffeine depends on the taste) because I wanted a hot drink but not specifically caffeine.
I quit coffee for health reasons (stomach) so it was kinda forced on me. I still love coffee taste very much and can still consume it in cakes and such
I was never hooked up on coffeine, so no "cold turkey" withdrawal symptoms. I am six weeks in.
I sleep much better and it definitely helps my concentration. Used to be too jittery before.
But last year I went on a vacation and didn't drink coffee at all that week. No problems, so I don't know what happened the first time.
Biggest thing is I fall asleep at night much more easily.
However, I'd like to be off it completely. I still have noticable peaks and troughs in my day due to when I drink coffee, and I'd kind like to flatten it out a bit.
Often along with dark chocolate or something else sweet.
Drink about 6 cups of coffee a day, starting around 9am. Last cup around 10pm. Love the creative process of development combined with coffee!
Up to 400mg per day has great research suggesting it's long term safe with minimal side effects. In that range, it's basically a performance enhancing drug. If it weren't ubiquitous, it would probably be banned from athletic competitions.
A few weeks ago, I tried drinking a cup because I needed to be alert/less sleepy, and I felt like shit. Not sure why, headache, some anxiety, and nausea.
When I’m underslept my mood is significantly worse. I am one of the most consistently happy people I know.
If I need a cognitive boost I take Alpha GPC.
... worst 3 hours of my life.
Drink caffeine free now. It's easier to get out of bed now.
what you WILL miss though, is you can no longer push yourself when you need it by using caffeine as a crutch, and you will miss the "buzz" feeling.
I go cold turkey on caffeine regularly for months at a time. then after my body has reset I slowly let it back in by drinking tea. (best time to quit is when you're sick with the flu or a cold, then you don't really notice that you're having withdrawal symptoms and its useful to tell yourself you feel shit because of the flu/cold..)
Around mid 2019, I noticed some bad qualities in myself: short temper, excessive frustration, losing sleep. I would blow up at a little thing, and then later wonder why I had been so upset about it. I carried this low-level anxiety all the time, and I was trigger-happy when it came to arguments or conflict. And I HATE arguing.
Nobody said anything to me about my behavior, but over time I noticed myself exhibiting qualities and traits of people that I don't like very much. I want to like myself! And so I made a decision to take some steps to be a better person.
One of my hypotheses about why I was so anxious and on the edge all the time was that I was drinking too much caffeine. I had other hypotheses, too, but I decided to try this one since it was a relatively easy thing to do.
So I quit. Cold turkey. The first week was hell. Headaches, trouble sleeping, craving a drink. But after that, I was fine, and I don't miss it at all. I'll occasionally indulge in a caffeinated beverage if I'm at out to dinner or for special occasions, but 99% of what I drink these days is caffeine-free.
I keep a daily journal. I track my habits and moods, such as whether I'm happy, sad, tired, angry, frustrated, as well as whether I exercised or had sex or hung out with friends or called my parents or how many hours of sleep I got. I've been doing this for a long, long time, and it's one of the reasons I was able to identify the patterns of undesirable traits that prompted me to drop caffeine in the first place.
There's a very clear shift in my behavior, habits, and moods from March 17, 2019, the day I quit caffeine, up until now. I am calmer. I lose my temper a lot less than I used to. I'm more able to stop myself when I see the signs of anger coming on. I can distance myself from work and remind myself it's just a job.
I sleep like a rock. My wife and I get into fewer arguments. I exercise more. In short, I find it easier to relax.
If you were to describe my happiness range from a 0 (miserable) to 10 (perfect), I was hovering somewhere around the 3-4 mark before, and now I'm consistently in the 5-6 mark.
Quitting caffeine was one of the best decisions I have ever made. It didn't fix everything. I still have problems, like anyone else. But a lot of the tiny things, the details that matter in my overall quality of life? Those things are better.
And I'm less likely to lose my job due to getting frustrated and blowing my top at work, which is a nice perk. My bosses have observed the shift in my behavior, and it's gratifying to hear that.
Didn't seem to affect me negatively in any area.
The only times when I used caffeine in the past year was when I was sleep deprived(I rarely am now), and in that case modafinil is way more effective.
Surely there have been studies on the effects of caffeine on the things you list?