In hindsight ADHD helped me to get into current position. Being constantly bored, high energy, positive-minded solution and tool seeker is often good thing in times of crisis. When things go stale and there are no things to fix but only boring forms remains it's usually mortal battle with burnout, procrastination, self-doubt. One which usually ends with me quitting due to burnout or - rarely - getting kicked off because the next more boring thing took longer than anticipated.
Right now I'm on hiatus since couple last couple of weeks, but lack of direction and purpose is awful and with every morning I feel fires of restlessness growing.
Today I read recruitment ad about neurodiversity program which - supposedly - caters people with different neurodivergencies. Those were US on-site positions though and I'm in EU.
So getting to the point: Do you know / can recommend companies with neurodiversity programs?
For myself obviously I'm looking for remote or EU companies (with relocation) but even if you know something that's not in the region please feel free to contribute - maybe someone else looking will make use of it.
Obvious throwaway. Some half-truths embedded.
I would recommend two things (YMMV). First, use ADHD to your advantage. People with ADHD have tendency to be inquisitive, but easily bored. Because of this I have become a jack of all trades. Although I have my specialty (ML), employers really appreciate that I also able to do Linux administration, create a web app and write a paper.
The second thing would be going freelance. I've done that last year, and it has been a blessing so far. I learned many new skills in new industries. Meeting new people and learning from them has been a valuable experience. The projects can be short enough not to get bored there. As a solid full-stack engineer you can earn better money, and have longer breaks in between.
The 2021 Stack Overflow Survey [0] puts ADHD at 8.51% (double the rate in the US [1]), and autism at 3.7% (about 1% globally [2]).
The point here is that, you all already work with people who have ADHD or are autistic. If your company isn’t doing right to retain us, your going to lose talent to those who do.
Small accommodations can go a very long way. Accomodations are personal, not everyone needs the same thing.
For example, I start my day at 10am. Easily managed accommodation, and now I get significantly better sleep. Everyone wins.
OP, I’d love to call out specific companies that are good at this, but I don’t really know.
[0] stackoverflow.com/survey/2021#section-demographics-m [1] https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/statistics/attention-deficit... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html
There are lots of people who are struggling with the demands of the workplace -- in fact, I'm not sure I know anyone who doesn't struggle with something.
I wonder why employers need a "Neurodiversity program" to make their workplaces less toxic.
Maybe I'm missing something, but are there any specific affordances for Neurodiverse people that wouldn't also help everyone else?
I was diagnosed with ADHD 10 months ago. At that time my life was a BIG BLOB of MESS and CHAOS.
I started attending therapy sessions with a really good Therapist once a week since then.
After 6 months, I had sense of every way ADHD was affecting my life, but couldn't figure out how to overcome the symptoms by myself.
My therapist recommended a psychiatrist, which prescribed Vyvanse 30mg (ADHD med), i started taking it 3 months ago.
It changed everything. I got promoted on my current job, started a post-grad on Data Engineering at a top University here in Brazil. It made me build structures in my life, organize it's mess, gave me focus and HOPE. Productivity at it's best.
I can't think how I could overcome my ADHD without my Therapist and meds.
Before seeking a company that "fits your problems" i recommend you trying these first:
1. go to a really good therapist 2. Make sense on how your ADHD condition affects you 3. Try to overcome it 4. Go for meds if needed (LAST RESOURCE) 5. Keep trying
Don't mix up your ADHD anxiety with depression, it is the worst loophole to dive in.
Hope you find it all out
It's very easy for companies to set up something like this for the sake of appearances, I would advise against selecting your employer based on this.
Though people seem to have decent feedback, I'd be somewhat skeptical of any advice that hasn't been tested for at least a year and seems very confident. My problem is basically that I can last (for the exact same reasons as you) for about 6 months on any given project, before being burnt out or let go because my productivity grinds to untenable levels with a sufficiently unstimulating or untenable task list. I've been on medication for 3 years. It helps to a point to get through those patches, but you have to be consistent, and if you fuck up your sleep or can't get enough exercise, it can all go south. In my experience, I've only really been successful with a lot of autonomy and heterogeneous problems to solve.
One cognitive approach is to become mindful and curious about what triggers your ADHD. Are there any patterns or habits? What activities do you engage in when you feel bored with a task? ADHD is executive brain dysfunction so what you really need to do is engage/train your executive function skillset and build up your resilience for longer term rewards or to devalue the reward of task switching. Some people try to build structure into their environments so that they don't have to think about it.
So learn about ADHD and learn about what you can do to help yourself. That's the ultimate reward. Your ADHD makes you naturally creative etc... which is a valued skill.
In some sense ADHDers live in the future which is great but you still have to get things done. And accomplishment is the ultimate reward.
https://www.additudemag.com/brain-stimulation-and-adhd-cravi...
https://www.additudemag.com/what-is-executive-function-disor...
Of course this isn't an option for everyone, but starting your own business might be worth considering.
One thing that came to mind is contract/freelance work. Go to a contracting agancy and tell them you want to work on 3-6 month contracts. I'm currently in the process of doing this. I hope few things come out of this.
1) my brain stays engaged
2) my happniess increases
3) my savings & free time grow ( as contractors get paid a bit more ) and can afford more time off between projects
International: https://www.specialisterne.com/
US: https://www.us.specialisterne.com/
Specialisterne Foundation is an international, award winning social enterprise setting the “gold standard” for neurodiversity employment. Specialisterne was founded in 2004 by Thorkil Sonne after Sonne’s young son was diagnosed with the disorder, when he realized we should focus on the ability of neurodiversity: attention to detail, high accuracy, innovative thinking, loyalty and honesty rather than the “disability”.
She basically said, there's a massive backlog and underfunding of the service, and instead of her referring me to the adult ADHD and autism psychology services directly I should approach a more generic NHS Adult Mental Health service and try to get them to refer me for a diagnosis, or write a letter asking her to. Just seems like a bit of a ringmarole.
She also said that the NHS wouldn't recognise a private diagnosis as they have a financial incentive to lean towards positive diagnoses, and so the NHS wouldn't foot the bill for eg any ADHD meds that would ensue from it.
Is this the experience other people have had, especially in the UK?
Nothing major to add, since there are some good comments from other commentators. Retrospectively I have realised ADHD has been perhaps an advantage in some areas. But additionally an absolute self sabatoge generating machine for the seemingly simplest of things.
Currently near the end my contract, being thinking more about the future. Full stack dev too. If you ever just want to chat and share stories of ridiculous periods procrastination, self doubt and future plans I'm always willing to chat.
I know speaking things out loud for me has lifted the veil of self doubt that can descend upon one after a bout of ill directed attention.
What are you looking for specifically? What does a neurodiversity program look like at a company? What, to you, makes a company neurodiversity-friendly?
Also going into therapy and getting meds will also help you a bunch. I think that will be more effective than necessarily trying to find the right kind of company. Try looking at this guide about adderal by a psychiatrist: https://lorienpsych.com/2020/10/30/adderall/
First, in the US, I’m not exactly sure it would be legal. We have the ADA, which basically states that we shouldn’t use what are considered “disabilities,” as a negative. Not sure what it says for positive.
I’m not sure about the EU, but, from my experience, European nations tend to have even stricter rules than the US.
In my case, my own neurodiversity has been a real asset. It’s made me an excellent programmer, and has certainly been key to my basic success.
I was a manager, for 25 years. That’s fairly unusual for aspies, as “people skills” are not often our strong suit.
Which brings me to the work environment. If the company has a management career path that includes promoting aspies into management, it may be great, as I think that it’s important that managers have empathy for their employees, but it might also be a difficult place to work, as we don’t always make the best managers (I feel as if I was an exception, but there were some “out of band” factors in my personal development, that probably made a huge difference –but that’s a story for another day).
The other possibility, is that the managers are all neurotypical, which makes me wonder about the career path.
In my experience, I started at my last company, on the same exact day, as another engineer, who was almost Central Casting for “aspie coder” (I’m a bit “dorky,” but it’s not as obvious, for me). We worked together for 27 years, until they finally closed down our department. For most of that time, I was his boss.
I have no problem admitting that he’s a far better coder and tactician than I ever was, but I have my doubts that he would have been as good a manager. On the other hand, I was pretty much a perfect manager for him, and he thrived in the department. He is now working for a well-known European megacorp, and I hope that they give him the space he needs to work. He’s an amazing engineer, and it was an honor to work with him.
I have since used it a few times as a tool to help people to better understand me and my quirks, I can say that it has helped in this regard and have often found that people tend to be slightly more conscious/considerate after reading about the struggles that people with ADHD have to face on a daily basis. It’s not that I want sympathy, it’s just that some people truly just do not understand that the reasons why things can be like this, yes they can take it as lazy, tardiness, my being uninterested or just generally unmotivated or side tracked but the reality of the matter is that these are aspects that I still struggle with on a daily basis and I don’t feel like I could ever reach a point where I have defeated them. So the understanding on their part does go a long way in helping me to feel better about myself and in turn, more capable of doing a good job. That’s what counts to them?
I would suggest that you give the article a read through too, or anyone who is wondering if they perhaps fall somewhere within this spectrum as it may help them to better understand themselves too.
I can recommend consulting if you have a good handle on your ability to keep yourself motivated over the long term, that you can communicate your position well and have the ability, to some degree to meet practical deadlines.
If you do not have a handle on things like this, stop to think first at the amount of damage you could do to a business by becoming a consultant and working for them because you need to be a strong person to pull that off for many, many years running.
Personally and although experience has helped to improve on these aspects, I see them as fundamental flaws that I have little control over even on the best of days. In reality what I need too, is a good crew that can help to keep me on track or simply patch up the stuff that I have since left behind. That and no projects that last for more than a few months :-)
Best of luck in life to you all!
This one is not and is based in California, but I'd still keep an eye on them in case they decide to add remote positions: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/21/magazine/auti...
https://chadd.org/adhd-weekly/asking-for-workplace-accommoda...
I believe I have ADHD, I'm seeking a diagnosis (or at the very least for someone to confirm that I'm just extremely lazy), which in Sweden is actually very difficult, and so far this has been the best company to work for.
That said: I personally have a lot of responsibility, and with responsibility comes more "free reign" on what needs to happen -- this is definitely where I lack the focus to understand what needs to happen next as I get paralysed when there's equally important tasks.. This is not the case for the majority of my company though.
We're hiring. https://career.sharkmob.com
Anyway. What you are looking for might be a consultant position, or working in a startup. By the way in my opinion, anything you do will have a bit of boring/unpleasant stuff.
Setting my own scopes and work hours really really helped to get things done. Allowing myself to procastinate for weeks if necessary makes sure one day I will be full of energy for whatever project is waiting for me.
I always struggled in work environments because of imposter syndrome, stress, sometimes a endless cycle of tiredness because I couldn't get enough sleep but a job requires to wake up early.
I sometimes look for remote jobs, but daily standup meetings, fixed online times and stuff like this simply are requiring to much structure I don't, and don't want to, have.
Before I actually quit the thing that helped me most was working less. By only doing a 4 days week I somehow was able to focus way better and enjoy work a lot more. I came late on Monday and took a joker afternoon when I wanted to every week. Still the best work/life balance I ever had in a job
I see a lot of comments on medication here, but you should know it is not the most effective treatment. Rephrased, medication alone will not be enough to overcome ADHD. The advice I received was that, it will help me do the things which will help my ADHD. For example, breaking large tasks into smaller ones, bullet journaling, etc.
Lastly read “Driven to Distraction”.
- Consulting/contracting (not freelance as it creates uncertainty and that could lead to stress)
- Design agencies (Front End/Design Technologist)
- Advertising Agencies who have a larger variety of projects (Technologist)
Hope that helps.
An example job I searched is based in Madrid: https://www.linkedin.com/mwlite/jobs/view/2908478547
Generally, I think many people recommend Red Hat as an employer.
Those who left their contact information and recommendation I'll be reaching out to soon. Once again thanks!
koncha_slizga_0b (at) icloud.com
There's a big (one of biggest) travel e-commerce company that hires in the Netherlands. I wont fully endorse the company, but from what I can see, there are groups dedicated to appreciating neurodiversity (and others for lgbt stuff and the like).
You can try over there.
71% of study participants don’t like their jobs. I will not write my opinion about ADHD, but most of the jobs are boring soul sucking time waste. Think about school - there were some good teachers, that liked what they did and the majority that just did their job. HN crowd obviously had good math and computer science and maybe physics or chemistry teachers.
I am your age and probably with ADHD too. But at this age you should know yourself and the tricks to overcome the deficits. My job is tragical. I am writing stupid shift registers in VHDL (that’s 2nd year homework at the university), but would like to design FPGA accelerators for high performance computing or day trading or machine learning. But the life isn’t pony yard. I can very well imagine HR making fun about the psychopaths they hired for their neurodiversity program. I know, it’s harsh and not pleasant, but I have heard a lot at this age already.
My advice: take some time, learn to know yourself better, especially how to overcome roadblocks and try act normal. Even if it means to play together with bored unhappy crowd.
Multitasking is ingrained in the software we use, which I believe is part of the problem. Something something Attention Economy, probably.
They are putting neurodiversity into practice (they reached out to all ND staff to contribute in this) and whilst may play into the cynical view of lip service if you hold that view, I know they are genuine about this. I also have a fantastic and understanding manager whom is open to making adjustments for me. I would never, ever what to work anywhere else away from the bunch of compassionate people at the Trust. The whole Moto of this Trust is "Safe, Kind, Excellent".
Loosing corporate, capitalistic drivers from your workplace when it comes to ND is a perhaps good start. Not saying all commercial employers or even non-profits don't care, but from my experience I really struggled in that sector in the past.
If you are open to a geographic move, or could get remote work, I would strongly suggest having a look as the NHS Jobs board. https://www.jobs.nhs.uk
Anyway, good luck to you, hope you find happiness and fulfilling work.
In addition to the job itself, I also got in touch with a contractor whose job it was to discuss the issues specifically related to me being a neurodiverse employee within the overall organization. She also acted as my job coach for a time, but recently their contract with MS expired, so I'm not sure if the same will apply to future hires. She also got in touch with my managers over the 4 years we worked together in case there were any impedance mismatches, of which there weren't any significant ones I recall. This was a massive difference from my previous jobs, where I was either left to the wayside with no explanation or disciplined into the ground for the most minor infractions that I couldn't understand (such as getting up and walking off while the CTO was talking to people at the same table at lunch).
Also part of the job were some neurodiverse focus groups where people hired through the cohort could interact, all knowing they weren't going to be judged and might have been put through the same things in life. I was also paired with an "advocate" in a separate system, who worked outside my org but volunteered to talk/socialize with people in the cohort. She eventually grew to be a good friend who deems me "family", and made good friends with her daughters. It's hard for me to overstate how much of an impact this made on my life, given that all my other efforts to make close friends fell apart during that time. Ultimately I might have been seeking something outside a standard friendship with a similarly-aged individual, and the way it happened to come together was via the cohort. This has often made me question if my only hope of finding a friendship that also maintains my interest to where it won't fall apart is with a person that already has a deep understanding of neurodiverse issues, and is prepared adjust their circumstances accordingly (one of her children had autism themselves).
My job has probably been the most significant benefit I have received in my life. It has enabled me to live independently and comfortably for many years. As such, it gives me pause to reflect on what might have happened if I didn't receive a diagnosis. People often say that there's no reason to get a diagnosis if it doesn't change what you'd do to cope with or mitigate the downsides, but me choosing to seek out a diagnosis had significant material benefits in my case. Not only that but I think I would not give my job up for anything, because even a job with comparable pay and benefits might be culturally incompatible the way I operate and choose not to socialize. Unless the company clearly states its position on neurodiverse employees, that essentially makes changing jobs a huge gamble with dire consequences if it doesn't work out (having been on the wrong side of that deal twice in my life already).
i had a chat with the ceo of the charity when i got diagnosed to see if i could help and he is one of the few people i've spoken to in the space that is actively considering adhd in the workplace.
my favourite parts are:
- before criticising timeliness, ask if timeliness is critical to the role. if it isn't, have a policy of flexible time, make it ok to make up lateness later. if it is, find ways to make it less so with scheduling and partnering
- hot desking / open offices: make provisions for people to have quiet and uninterrupted work environments. perhaps that is alternate office space, providing noise cancelling headphones.
- meeting timeliness: fully integrate calendar and reminder systems. for many with adhd something not in the calendar may aswell not exist.
there are loads more but most of the key point boil down to: stop immediately thinking that every time someone doesn't meet your expectations, that it's a personal failure of theirs. start considering how the environment (physical, social, technological, conceptual) might be an impediment to them. start questioning your assumptions around what is "actually" necessary for a role and what you think is necessary.
my personal addition to this is: lots of the ways in which i disappoint people ultimately derive from an innate fear of disappointing people. the irony is not lost on me. the answer, ive found, is to create for myself an environment in which a) my colleagues can separate their disappointment in my actions/ outcomes from me. b) where i can communicate my issues / worries as and when they arrive without fear.
my favourite one has been telling people that a particular task will be far to boring for me to do alone and being able to partner up with someone else to get it done. or that asking me to remember to do something in prep for a meeting is a bad idea and to either pop it straight into my calendar, do it now or make some time during the meeting to do it. that last one is basically the amazon meeting agenda policy where the start of every meeting is reading the notes for the meeting, it's adhd dream.
i am reminded to leave this caveat: yes, these are problems we all face, the questions is: do the problems cause a material impact on your life (lost jobs, failed relationships (love/friends), missed opportunities, states of being that you cant escape). the difference between having adhd and not is whether the problems cause disorder in your life currently, and have done so for much of your life.
It's about Adderall (a popular medicine for ADHD), but the beginning of the article has a great discussion on the nature of ADHD.