The last time I had fun like this was in college. I was broke, renting a big flat with a bunch of roommates, but young, healthy, and full of enthusiasm (and booze). Finding friends in my teens and 20s was as easy as going out literally anywhere. When I eventually went to work, I thought my life would only get better. And I made a good career, but in the process, steadily drifted off into isolation.
These days I work either from home, or at best in a mostly empty office. I tried to meet new people at hobbies and dance lessons, but guess what - they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
All the "normal" people I knew in the past are now changing diapers and working to pay off their mortgages, which I guess is a kind of consolation. Still, I'm only in my 30s, and it feels like my life is pretty much done. Doing things by myself is boring and depressing, and getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.
In case someone has any advice beyond finding a hobby, going to therapy, approaching random strangers, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't have any skills other than coding, so quitting the career would be a major financial hit. On the other hand, I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups, and get out of the apathy
Some tips:
- move to a city - things are much much easier in a city as people are more transient, groups aren't as established, and new people arrive all the time
- it sounds like you have some friends - ask them if they have any friends in your area you should meet platonically
- the easiest way to make friends is an activity: you mentioned a hobby, but it can be anything - a running group, the gym, board games, etc. The more non-nerdy, the more likely you are to find non-nerdy people
- if you're like me, you struggle to make friends because it's not "easy" like it was in college. Friends in your 30s take work: reaching out, texting, scheduling, planning, etc.
- it sounds like you're not in therapy. So let me be the first to tell you that you're depressed (that "apathy" you're feeling is depression). Which is fine, it happens us all. But go to therapy because that's how you solve that. Just try it for a month, no pressure.
1. Just say yes. When someone asks for anything, say yes, no matter how big or small (help them move out, look after their dog) This will put you into novel situations.
2. Show genuine interest in things. Ask why, learn more, dig deeper, keep conversations going by trying to share anything you think is slightly relevant.
3. Dress up. Wear things that stick out, even just a bit, a funky shirt, a nice bright pair of socks, use these to add flare to a standard dark blue and grey world, people will reflect back and be interested in you.
4. Pick one new thing you want to master (not online) my advice here for all round great friend activities - Rockclimbing, Pub Quizes, Boardgame nights, Cycling, Pottery. Each of these almost always need another person to make them work and that helps you grow your confidence.
5. Don't work so hard. Tell your boss you wanna slow it down, try and do 4 day weeks, give back some commitments, take a pay cut. Don't quit just slow it down and give your head some space.
HN Believes in you! :D
Moving to NYC completely changed my perspective and my life. Moving also had other impacts: it forced a change of scenery, forced me to make new friends, learn about new parks, learn all new neighborhoods to walk through with no prior memories, I felt inspired with new ideas for the first time in a long time, forced new hobbies and ways of spending time (hello volleyball! hello going to 5 networking events in one night!) and the process of introducing myself to new people over and over made me realize I didn't like what I was doing for work.
I'm not advocating for NYC specifically. I was in Austin last weekend and felt a similar draw there, so if I was 30 and in that stuck spot today that's probably where I'd go to start. There's an energy that dense cities have that forces change, in my experience.
Good luck to you! It can be a very rewarding journey.
> All the "normal" people
Lol thanks. I used to have self-confidence issues because I'm short. Spent a lot of time at university feeling sorry for myself, unable to make friends or see myself as worthy of a girlfriend.
Eventually realised that it's mostly in my head. I got over my self-esteem issues, went out and spoke to a stranger (ikr isn't that crazy?!) and he became my best friend. We travelled a bit and I met a whole bunch of girls who really liked me (at parties, on campus, etc). Life basically finds ways to disprove every dumb assumption you have, in my experience.
That was a couple years ago. Pandemic put my social life on pause.
I think the "go to dance lessons" advice is so dumb because it just means all the people who are at dance lessons are looking for something other than to learn to dance.
My advice is go to bar or a club and dance with strangers (where everybody is there to have fun and mingle). Go alone, YOLO. Also, if you don't live in a city, move to a city.
Go to a different country. You're probably rich lol you have nothing to worry about.
Good luck
The good news is it sounds like you have absolutely nothing.
How I would love to move to Taiwan or Vietnam for six months making my current salary and work remote right now.
Or even one month.
Wouldn’t it be fun to go to Europe, take a train across the continent and work on a laptop.
Or an Airbnb in Barbados.
Who convinced you that you have to stay in this little box at a time when developer jobs are in unlimited supply?
Where did you learn that you have to constrain your options to your local environment only?
And I will tell you: The city and location do matter. You may not be crazy to conclude that only other people like yourself settle for a work / life balance like this in that city.
A small local demographic problem turns into a major existential problem for you. No one young and fun wants to live in a boring ass city, suburb or financial center bereft of culture.
Go to Nashville. Go to Colorado.
I have been very surprised visiting Chicago, for example, at how vibrant and different and friendly people were.
And visiting Austin. Wow, you can go to live music all night for $15 and walk around between bars and there is culture to experience.
Or in Taipei. Woah, people hang out in cafes reading books at 2am at all night bookstores.
If you feel like your life sucks and your environment sucks, it probably does.
Lot of people I know literally just book a ticket and stay in hostels around Japan or Asia or Europe. Cheap, meet people, work remote.
Biggest challenge is going to be your unwillingness to take even the smallest risk. That is on you.
A lot of people on HN are do-it-yourself, bootstrap types. So you'll naturally get "why don't you just do XYZ."
There's merit in that, but sometimes changing the environment is more effective. That environment may be literal physical location (closer to friends or activities you're interested in), a job environment (different industry) or, at a smaller scale, your home environment. I finally started updating my place and having friends over and it's made a huge difference.
On a personal note: a hard lesson I had to learn for myself is that having fun (as weird as it sounds) is my responsibility. I found that I tended to look "outwards" for stimulation, fun, validation...waiting for the world to give me things.
Hanging out with people who were great at cultivating their own fun & energy helped me realize 1) this is something I could cultivate and 2) I was shirking responsibility.
IMO this cultivation of one's own energy is a long, internal journey. But worth it.
Good luck mate.
The reason I suggest it is because of it’s role as the post-college college where you can build deep relationships and people of all ages are genuinely wanting to network specifically to build a community. They’re not doing happy hours etc. to boost their social capital, they’re in it for the long haul. Also, building relationships with people of all ages is extremely important and rewarding/fulfilling.
I agree with moving to a city or trying to tap into more social stuff. But i also find those relationships to be quite shallow. You bounce around a lot from one shallow connection to another. Dinner once/twice a month with group A. A group to play a sport with on Saturday Afternoon. Another group to do X scheduled event with on cadence Y. For me, and my wife, we found ourselves in that pattern in our 30s. She had her friend circles/silos and I had mine and then we had the a third type of circle for us as a couple. It was nearly impossible for these to overlap. Why would her floral design hobby girls be interested in attending a heavy metal concert with some of my metal head friends.
We missed having deeper friendships. We always used the example of of how when we were younger and not even necessarily coupled at the time we both had friends that just popped in our houses. Never had to be planned or for any purpose. They were always welcomed and were just a constant in our lives. Going to church helped us build those types of friendships.
I’m not even spiritual and I avoid a lot of the overly churchy parts. I do agree with the high level value/moral systems being promoted and enjoy the sermon parts. I look for the speaker who delivers nearly secular messages. It can feel like a life lesson or motivational speech that’s based on teachings of whatever book they believe in.
But to give real advice to you in a less flippant manner, start embracing who you are. You're going to end up in your 40s fantasizing about living a stereotypical and neurotypical extrovert life like a frat boy and constantly hating and rejecting people who nerdy and geeky only to realize how much time you wasted trying to be someone you aren't. You have people to hang out with. You just reject them because you hate yourself, you have always had a thing against awkward and nerdy people, even though that's who you are.
Trust me, many people on the borderline of smart and cool during their highschool go through this phase. It's taking you till your 30s to learn this, but you will learn it soon. You will learn how superficial these labels are and how the only thing that matters is finding some people that care for you and that you care for them. You're literally self-hating by announcing your distaste for the stereotypical 'outcasts' of society. Because you would be in that group too.
I actually hope you get what you want, a nice friend group full of 'normal' non-autistic, non-awkward, non-short, non-old, outgoing, and non-ugly people. I hope you get that dream and anything else you want- because you will quickly realize that it's not the answer. ~stolen slightly changed quote from Jim Carrey.
1. What is the definition of fun?
- I imagine for most introverts, a loud party and getting drunk is not our definition of fun.
- Most dev work is working in isolation and for introverts this is a blessing, but for extroverts this can be depressing. But is this true all the time? or is this just because of the pandemic? Is this true for all dev jobs or maybe it depends on the company? Is being a software developer and an extrovert inherently incompatible?
- What makes other lonely developers unattractive to hang-out with? Is it because they're introverted? Other lonely developers are more likely to be intelligent, friendly, have financial resources, etc.. even if socially awkward.
- Is it just to party together, have adventures and potentially meet attractive women? Or is it to build lasting relationships and meet a person to settle down with?
I got off of my ass. I moved to a completely new geographic area. I sampled every aspect, every neighborhood of my target area, and I looked for the things that made the time prior so good. I found it, and I got to take a second spin through the best time of my single life. I met outstanding people, made lifelong friendships, partied like there was no tomorrow, met my wife, had my kids, kept my friendships, kept the best parts of partying, and found an incredible life. I liked who I was. I didn't like where I was, physically, spiritually, and metaphysically.
I'm in my 40s now. I just spent the day dressed up like a pirate catching beads, pounding beers, ripping shots of rum, laughing with friends, being absolutely ridiculous, and came back to a 3 year old telling me that she "loves me so much." Use your gifts to lift yourself out. They serve you, you don't serve them.
get. off. of. your. ass. in whatever way that is meaningful to you.
You're one of them.
Of course, nothing would stop you from making friends with the cool people, but you have to do something cool to meet them.
Also don't get caught in the mentality that drinking together is some sort of pinnacle of human fun. I would rather read a book or bicycle.
Take some time to do some true introspection and consider obtaining a therapist. What are you are living is a common human experience.
1. Your outlook seems quite negative and judgmental. Start there. Acceptance is key.
2. It’s hard to be at peace with others and find enjoyment in life if you’re not at peace with yourself. Do not judge yourself and your feelings but recognize that you will need to commit to change if you truly want it.
For me personally, my happiness is rooted in gratitude. Thankfulness that I’ve been born at the time I was born and inhabiting the space of loving, imperfect people who care for me. My life is much better than what my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents experienced. I am the culmination of their sacrifice and perseverance. I am their dreams come true. This is my North Star that strengthens me when I’m down and helps me remain empathetic and open to others. Be a good friend to others; and you will find they will be friendly to you.
You have 2 paths:
1. try to play catchup and fit into the norms that you have neglected and let bypass you. Sounds like you've already made an attempt here and are struggling. You know what it takes: self improvement, shared hobbies, therapy, talking to strangers, personal growth etc.
2. embrace that you are an outsider and lean into a degenerative life style. Really give up on fitting into the social norms. Embrace that you are a social degenerate and have fun with it. Start hanging in anti-social circles and engaging in risky non-normal behavior. Get a motorcycle, join a biker gang. Start frequenting punk rock bars and meet other outsiders. Pick up a casual drug habit and socialize through shared usage. Blow all your engineering salary on strip clubs and sex worker experiences. Is this "normal", no. Will you have more fun ? yes.
In another comment you mentioned digital nomad plans. I'm planning that too. My strategy is to stay in a 20+ room co-working hotel that requires a 1 month minimum stay and then hopefully forming a bond with a few people. Then perhaps traveling with them to the next city. With a few friends it becomes much easier to make the first move with a woman you find attractive since dates are just inviting her to hang out with your pals. Just having friends makes you more attractive to women too, but I think you know this. I live in a desirable coastal city so hopefully encouraging her to move might possible if I find the right person, or heck I can move. It sounds like you live in an interesting city too but even if neither of you can move and it ends, you'll at least break your losing streak.
That's the hope anyway. The fact that you are thinking about and have some ideas is again encouraging. I think you'll be fine.
Lastly it may get psychologically easier as you get older. IME a few high quality half/full day interactions a year are enough for me to stay happy. But unfortunately it is not a strategy for forming a romantic relationship.
It always feels grass is greener on the side. All the people paying mortgages and changing diapers also think have they made wrong choices and is their current life making them happy .
Becoming happy in one's life is an internal journey it has little do with it social life /career /family/wealth we have or don't.
Religion /cults / self improvement /therapy (some types) are all businesses that that thrive on selling their flavour solution to the problem. Maybe they even work for some.
It is hard to say what works best for anyone.
I find learning new tech/writing more code I want to write rather than what someone pays me to do helps.
Sometimes even spending weekends cleaning up/refactoring even code from work makes my work week feel way better and less stressed.
- Get a pet.
- Volunteer for a non-profit organization.
- Go to church.
- Visit and talk frequently with family members.
- Join an online dating service.
- Talk with or visit your neighbors as frequently as feasible.
- Every time you go out shopping, make a point of engaging in light conversation with people who work where you shop.
- Take music lessons at a music store. Make a point of engaging in light conversation with anyone you see there.
- Take night courses at a college. Any subject. Make a point of engaging in light conversation with anyone in your classes. Suggest that you study together.
What you need are random collisions with other people. More random collisions means a higher probability of meeting someone you get along well with.
Maybe your attitude of treating unattractive people as beneath you needs to be fixed before you can find meaningful relationships.
Instead, you need to be MORE judgmental. You need to reject your situation EVEN HARDER. Definitely DO NOT move to a huge city (unless you have people there).
Your problem is that, up until now, you have been following money and interests, and expecting that the belonging issue to sort itself out.
This is a foundational mistake, it's completely backwards. You need to belong FIRST. Your interests should stem from the needs of the people that you love, your tribe. Your work/employment should stem from the needs of those people, and your role in what they are working towards. The other way around does not work.
Basically, you are alone because you were misled into prioritizing the wrong things. Turning that around will involve a lot of pain and sacrifice.
Find the people that you actually love, love being around, and love being connected to. Find them online. Find them through extended family. Find them through old friends. Go travel, and reconnect with your own people.
These people exist! There is no reason to settle for less. Stop what you are doing now, and orient your whole life around this. Once you find it, go find more people like yourself and pull them into the group. So many people like you are trapped in this same situation, and they need your help.
Broken communities and meaningless jobs, surely add to the underlying absurdism of life, but life is fundamentally absurd and lonely, and you are coming to this realization.
Your college experience is a short dose of hedonistic pleasures. The young and attractive bunch you were drinking with are either changing diapers or the unattractive folks you are refusing to dance with.
Accept it, turn inward and get more spiritual and less judgmental. I'd also suggest joining a community but I think you need to get spiritual growth first because you will also judge those communities harshly and get isolated. Dancing community? you'll think old and desperate, cross-fit? shallow and stupid, family? changing diapers, meditation/yoga? weirdos,
Well, all those folks are trying to find a temporary break out of the absurd just like you.
Gee, I'm just shocked that you're having a difficult time making friends. Who wouldn't want to be friends with judgemental folks?
There isn't anything to mention that you don't know already. There is no quick fix. Find a hobby like sports or music etc and meet people through that, or do other sorts of meetups. But the problem here is your attitude, not the people. Don't take your frustrations out on other people, it's not cool.
Wait 'til your forties, its like this except you're fatter, uglier and no one wants to hire you any more.
These sound like buckets you created to fulfill your own subjective stereotypes.
> Doing things by myself is boring and depressing, and getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.
This is a harsh thing to say, but maybe its you. You disparage people who are looking for the same thing in the previous paragraph.
> I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups
As someone who has worked many non-coding jobs, I can assure you that it is not.
I love my wife and kid and am pretty much never lonely, but haven't had the time to do much of anything in ages. Before having kids, we would go out to dinner, read a book at a coffee shop...etc. Now I just work and parent and occasionally have a few hours a week for recreation.
This isn't to belittle your experience (I hope you're able to find what you're looking for), but to let you know that we're all there with you in spirit in case you find that slightly uplifting.
Secondly because contact either with or for people at the end of their rope in stronger sense of risk due to poverty will put your own concerns into focus. Not that you aren't unhappy, but that your unhappiness has relativity to other people's problems.
Thirdly because you'll be meeting interesting people of all kinds.
Fourthly because they need the help. So even if you don't secure the benefits I propose, at least they will, despite your unhappiness.
It's wrong to diagnose online, and I'm not an MD but your comments could suggest one of the anxiety-depression spectrum of problems which are treatable, and non drug regimes like CBT are surprisingly effective. Be the best kindest person you can be and you may find this alienation and dissatisfaction eases. Seek professional help.
Btw this kind of volunteer work is hard. Dirty. Confronting and may make you feel worse. Nothing is perfect.
Now, you are in your 30s and feal that you want to be normal. fuck it, never happens, you are one of this socially awkward people, short, unattractive looking for a partner and friends, but because you don't want to be one of they, they are not good enough for you. ....oh, don't see that as a bad comment. I'm one of this people too.
The thing is, I have friends from this people, and I have 'normal' friends. But when it goes about having fun, your normal people are absolutely boring. HAve fun with the other ones. Have a lot of booze and talk crazy funny shit that normal people would never understand. Don't try to beo one of this normal people, they hate there life exactly like you hate yours. That's normal in the 30s. They have just other problems. No time because kids, work, pay their house, cant pay their heating....etc
And when all this not works, just quit your coding job and open a pub, thats my plan b.
Bring some beers -- don't over think it. If you need a joke to break the ice here ya go:
`why do mermaids wear seashells on their breasts?
it's because the A and B "shells" are too small!"
Get over there!! Don't let Sour Grapes define you! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes
Just wanted to add that the wholesale adoption and normalization of WFH and remote culture in tech is worrying and will only make this type of issue worse and more common. Personally, I had consistently been able to make good friendships at work across several positions at different companies/cities/countries. That's until WFH and remote work hit, where now I rarely see coworkers in person (if at all), and often people are not in the same city. We feel more like automatons these days.
Tech work seems no longer a reliable vector for creating meaningful friendships or a social life outside of work. Like OP, many of us will have to learn to meet people outside of work.
I don't remember the exact quote, but Pratchett suggested ( if you are willing to listen to strangers on the net ), and I happen to agree, that focusing on looks is a fools errand. Looks fade. Kisses get less enticing. Cooking skills only get better.
I remember my 20s and 30s through a haze of various mistakes. Eventually, I decided enough is enough and opted for 'boring' and 'normal', because, as it turns out, I am pretty boring. Is it possible that you simply did not reach your limit when it comes to hedonistic endeavors?
Personally, I've had horses for most of my adult life, and I've met many people that way. I know more horse people than technical people.
I have lots of things I'd like to say and yet the one that jumps out to me the most:
If you don't think you have any skills other than coding, what's one skill other than coding that you'd like to learn?
I ask because I've found that sometimes it has been the easiest for me to meet people in learning environments, maybe for similar dynamics to college. A place where I feel uncertain yet curious to learn more, and often encounter others who are feeling similarly or have learned and are somewhat eager to teach people who want to learn.
This may be similar to "get a hobby" advice, yet I think it differs enough in that it's more about finding a specific skill you are interested in learning. The challenge with some hobbies is that many people who are there may already be very skilled in it and may not want to deal with people who are beginners. That's what I like about learning environments, many often appreciate and welcome learners.
And, I'd guess that an environment with an assumption of curiosity could lead to interpersonal curiosity as well.
I used to teach salsa lessons and I found that a lot of people came to salsa because they wanted to meet others—not necessarily because they wanted to learn salsa—and it would show. As a teacher, I'm not so interested in teaching someone who wants doesn't really want to learn, just wants to use the class to meet others. Conversely, if someone really wants to learn, I'm excited to teach them, and they seem to have more in common with the others who really want to learn.
Not sure if this will help you, I'd love to chat with you more about it here or at the email in my bio, because in helping you figure this out, maybe it'll help me and/or help me help others. If not, that's OK, too. I think you reaching out and asking for help is a huge step, having the courage to open up and show us a little more of what you're struggling with—I believe so much loneliness comes from closing ourselves off from others. So I'm grateful that you asked for this...thank you!
The problem may be your mental model of what “life” is. Imagine you were born, like much of the world, in a village in a third world country. Would your conception of life and what it means be conducive to your personal happiness?
I know people respond with various degrees of emotion to a suggestion like that, but in my experience it’s usually the place where you discover why it feels like there’s an empty hole in your life and what it takes to fill it.
- A random guy on the internet
I hear you on the difficulty of isolation and feeling disconnected, it’s tough. You’re definitely not alone there, I know lots of guys in the same boat.
I’ve been where you are. I’m also an engineer in my 30s. I’ve been frustrated, apathetic, and lonely too. But most days I don’t feel like that anymore. I turned it around for myself, I know you can too. You can definitely get reenergized and get back to the fun and connected life you had in college. It’ll take some work, but from your post my impression is that you’re pretty good at learning new skills.
A lot of people have made great suggestions on how to meet people. Save those for a month from now. The key thing in my experience is getting your energy up. If you’re low energy when you meet someone new, neither of you is going to have much fun and it won’t lead anywhere.
Here’s how to get your energy up:
1. Exercise every day - if you’ve forgotten where to start, walk/run a mile and do 25 pushups. Adjust based on your current fitness level. Keep it simple. 2. Drink 64oz of water every day. No, really, this is important. 3. Get outside first thing in the morning for 10 minutes to get natural light - this can be when you get your exercise or it can just be to sit and drink a cup of coffee.
That’s it. Start with those three. You got this - friends, fun, connection and a fulfilling life are closer than you think.
I wonder why you have trouble making friends.
Remember that happiness is relative to your last phase, there is no such thing as "peak".
How? Through Yoga.
Making friends was not my goal whatsoever. Just started practising daily a few years ago because it spoke to me.
Found a good studio (one that teaches real yoga and not just aerobics) and started helping out there for free (in exchange for unlimited classes). I met a lot of the teachers and managers that way.
After about a year or so you start to recognize a lot of faces... and it turns out that a lot of people who regularly go to yoga classes (where they constantly talk about being kind to yourself, others, and the planet) are incredible people.
I have met some real assholes too, don't get me wrong. You just disregard them and carry on.
I am sure this is possible with anything that's open to the public and encourages daily participation, like religion or fitness centers, etc.
However, I spent years attending a fitness gym prior to this and never met a single decent human being I would want to spend time with. Most of the "friends" I used to go to the gym with I don't even talk to anymore.
Yoga classes around me have been canceled/in lockdown for the past few months, but I still talk to my yoga buddies and go for walks with them almost every single day.
It's great! I encourage you to give it a shot!
So what? Lonely developers can't be good friends? Short guys looking for girlfriends can't be good friends?
Sounds like they would solve your loneliness problem but you are too judgemental to accept them
People are not the labels you assign to them. You can have common interests and form friendships based on that while being from entirely different walks of life.
If you only want to be around someone else who is exactly like you, what the fuck is the point?
I see this alot where people get stuck in a rut and then it becomes unpleasant for everyone, it could be people stuck in a marriage/relationship who stay together for any number of reasons include for the sake of the kids, in a job you dont want to do anymore, or in a location you dont want to be anymore.
Maybe go travelling, if you can work from home, whats stopping you from travelling and working at the same time provided the net access is good enough where ever you go? You only need 56K for VoIP, 2/3times that for AV comms, and mobile telecoms internet is getting better all the time.
It seems like only yesterday, I was skyping someone for an hour from a boat over the 3G network when that telecoms std appeared.
Job flexibility is key though and I'm aware many people dont have that, but if you do have that flexibility or you can create that flexibility like setting up your own business then go for it, the technology is only going to get better and cheaper making this more of a reality for people in more and more places around the world.
- pursuing romantic interests that I knew could get complicated
- reaching out for emotional support in ways that made me feel embarrassed and vulnerable
- confessing suicidal thoughts to my doctor
- quitting my job and taking >1 year off work
- moving across the country with no job lined up and no long-term plan
I've never regretted any such decision; I think it's always had a major positive impact on my life. Because when I'm trapped in my routine the world can start to feel very small. To shatter that illusion and remind myself how wide the possibilities in life really are, it's often necessary to behave in some way that violates inhibitions I normally have.
So... taking a break from coding could be a great idea, especially if you can build up some savings first. It doesn't have to be forever (I took ~15 months off then got another software job). You don't have to plan the rest of your life - find a direction that looks promising for the next year or two, and adjust course again as needed after that.
- Is travel really the solution? I mean isn't it not just walking away from you problems. Yeah I know myself some really great guys who went to Thailand or Philippines and had much more success with women there. One found his wife. Anyway that might be the solution.
- Regarding the age. According to a well known formula you can date people 1/2(your age) + 7. So it is nothing that special dating someone in their 20s if you are in your 30s.
- Regarding dance: Maybe you went to the wrong places. What you describe is not always the case.
- Regarding the Job: I once did had a very very exciting job with a lot of coding involved. Everyone was working a lot here. Changing the job kind of helped (low stress, nice people). It's much more about your team then the actual tasks in my opinion. Also jobs with a lot of meetings in big companies might be the hell for some of us, but might be a blessing for others since you often have to communicate much more.
If you found a solution. Please let me know ; )
I met a girl some years ago we are now married and even though the first year was great it has all started going downhill from there. I am now at a point where I hate my life, and as OP even though I’m making more money than I ever dreamed I am still miserable and still remember my broke college years as the best of my life.
Now I’m thinking about how to get a divorce without hurting my partner that much. It’s awful and I feel terrible for her. But I think it’s for the better as I definitely won’t stand 40+ years like this, I’m also in my thirties. Marriage is definitely a bad deal for men (and great for women). I can’t understand/believe how many men are able to marry twice. For me it’s enough to make a huge mistake once to learn from it and never do it again.
I guess in the end I’d say be careful what you wish for I’d trade places with you right away.
I might suggest a niche outdoor hobby. Dangerous hobbies in particular, like hang gliding or something. I've found a decent friend group tied by a strong shared interest this way. We plan trips to go do this hobby. Because it is dangerous there is a level of mutual trust and respect. As someone without a significant other or children you are well positioned to tak up such a hobby that most others could not afford or tolerate the risk for. There is adventure if you go look for it.
It may sound a bit of place in a forum like HN, but I have a point to make here. What you feel is a fairly common phenomenon and I know a ton of people who aren't happy at this setting. I would like to suggest joining a political grouping and study the in-group dynamics.
From the background you have stated, it is highly unlikely that you have joined a political movement or seen its inner workings at any point in time. You don't have to be a politician, but you can join the team of one. You can make yourself a lot useful. You wouldn't realise the huge value a website or a robust analytics infrastructure for a local/provincial level politician. Or your could collaborate in strategy, outreach, electioneering etc.
The best thing about a political movement is that it derives people from various background, age groups, ethnicities (I know that this is not true for many political groupings, but you could choose based on your taste) and experiences. They are generally very much driven and at least care for a cause. Once you bond, you'll see that the in-group dynamics and response to questions like general ethics, economics etc shifts from the advertised positions. This shift in dynamics is what makes you politically aware and literate. It is a great liberating experience. In movements that are around for long, you'll see yourself interacting with a lot of people as if you have known them for years - sometimes like family members. This is a great way to connect with people from different classes, backgrounds and develop the kind of empathy that will help us appreciate ourselves better.
I realise that the socio-political situation in different nations are different. But if you can do this, this will definitely light up the mood. It is also a great contribution to society - but you don't have to look at it that way. Political activity is a great addition to our lives, as many people across the generations have found out. Do give it a try.
Heed well the wisdom of one Benjamin Franklin:
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Franklin/01-03-02-00...
in the dark all Cats are grey
Move to non-western countries where friendship and relationship are valued more than wealth.
I did that whenever I had a burnout. And it wasn't easy for a Russian kid.
But moving will expose you to struggle, which life is all about. Embrace it stay open and you will find friends.
im happy, way more happy. still a bit hard to make friends (slow process). currently trying to find a (young, traditional) wife. my health improved greatly (strong as an ox now, where before i was spindly and underdeveloped), and im not depressed or apathetic at all. i leap out of bed! eager to go to work. and the sense of accomplishment at the end of the day is unparalleled.
I never knew short guys and unattractive/aging women are not normal people. Is life a hollywood movie?
Have a great meal, eat an ice cream, go for a run in the park, get a massage, pedicure, have a cold shower, do all above and keep doing it regularly.
With that under control, increase your exposure to stuff and people. Attend meetups. Sign up for 10 different friend/dating site and put up profiles. Do volunteering work. Take some random day classes. The point is not to pick the right stuff, but to come in contact with more people. Maybe one of them out of 100 is someone you take liking to and that opens you up to their circle of friends.
It’s all a game of numbers.
Best of luck.
Every 3 months we rent a house and chill with each other in the weekend, give each other workshops, talk about life, drink amazing wines and cook our best dishes.
Doing this is different than being friends individually with them, which I also am. To me, it feels I am much more supported.
I share your sentiment with what type of people you want to meet. In my case, I've been lucky to have studied a business program (that I dropped out of) and meet my friends there, that still are my friends to this day. From there the friendship group grew. It means that I am the geekiest of the 5, and they tolerate that since I focus on being curious, adventurous, playful, creative, a little crazy and fanciful with them. I position myself a bit as a curious bon vivant that happens to have a geeky side. It's not that I don't have those traits, but I do emphasize them more than I otherwise would. And honestly, I like it. Pulling out the adventurous side in me is exactly what gives life a little fun, you know? I mean, from a rational point of view I find it utter nonsense because all I care about is truth and advancing it. Science is wonderful, it is an amazing tool to know that something is true, false or has some probability value to be true or false. But from an emotional point of view, adventure baby!
So if you have friends that are relatively tight with each other and you are as well. Make a conscious effort to become a group. Get an AirBnB, get an activity list and do a weekend getaway together.
What also helps me is my girlfriend. Her view on the world brightens my life, even when I feel utter shit because my career is going nowhere (as a programmer), or even when I feel lonely. She takes a lot of the loneliness away to be honest.
With that said, I feel a similar sentiment to some extent to what you say. In that sense, I am not the perfect rolemodel, not by a long shot. But the two things I wrote above (consciously formed friendship groups + consciously formed friendship culture, my girlfriend), they help me feel that life is worthwhile.
There's no shame in this, I had undiagnosed anxiety/depression for 20+ years. I had no idea what it was, or why I felt that way until it was treated and it went away completely.
Seek professional help. CBT (talk therapy) is good. Drugs + CBT are even better. If you find an SSRI that works + some CBT, it's life changing stuff right there.
Without this, you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back. Fix this first.
1) covid's almost over, and that'll help
2) Burning Man? I'm semi-serious here.
3) After 10 years away from writing code, I took a full stack contract to do something esoteric and difficult, without a tight deadline. It took me nearly three months to recover 100% of my coding capability, and after the contract ended, nearly three months to recover my social skills.
It's a very very hard job. To be better than the technical problem is much, much harder than being better than (say) competing bankers or lawyers. The opponents are not human when you write code. They're harder to defeat.
Regarding going the hobby path. Dude, sports. Yes things like dance are going to have an abundance of weirdo singles trying to mix with the opposite sex in a planned environment. Join a pub league rugby team or something. I guarantee there would be people at that party above you who met through sports.
Also, you are still allowed to have housemates as a professional in his 30s. I'd be looking at that well before something as drastic as a career change.
Cut out all the junk you eat, start eating heathy. Stop drinking or smoking if you do that.
Make sure you get at least 8 hours of sleep.
Read the Almanac of Naval Ravikant, specifically the parts about wealth and happiness.
At least once a week, take a walk outdoors.
Avoid therapy until you have taken the above simple steps to try to remedy your situation, which isn’t that you are lacking friends but that you have envy and a feeling that you are lacking something fundamental in your own life.
Friends don’t create happiness, happiness can create friends though.
It's true that many sign up for those lessons looking to meet people, and have no particular interest in dancing. The trick, though, is to persist until you get good at it. Your attractiveness to the other dancers will go up as you get better, and so will opportunities.
Besides, even if it doesn't work out for you, the skills you'll learn in posture, elegance, etc., will pay off for you in other activities. A woman likes a man who knows how to make her look good.
Become the person who can add value to the people you want to be friends with. Without specifics it’s hard to give actionable advice on this.
At general social meetups you’re going to find similarly lonely and lost people with nothing in common. They also very likely have a negative mindset. So skip those and go directly to the events of people you want to be friends with.
A couple of things I’d add - there are things like night classes in trades that can super fun as a skill to learn and teamwork helps you meet people well out of your regular circle. I recently did metalwork as a short course and it was great on both fronts. Make it something you’re curious about learning so you’re engaged.
Meet your neighbours. In my neighbourhood it’s easiest if you have a dog to walk, but I met mine by painting my front fence over a sunny weekend and just saying hello to the passers-by. Now we have a group chat and have drinks on public holidays and generally look out for each other. Knowing the people who live around you is really beneficial on lots of fronts.
Find a Discord server of a podcaster / streamer / YouTuber that you like, one that has local meetups. Existing communities like that are usually pretty welcoming and easy to make conversation in.
Not my thing, but I’ve heard that martial arts clubs can be good places to find community, similar to the CrossFit suggestion, but they’re organised around teaching and keeping people on a learning pathway. I do know people who’ve met through a taiko (drumming) dojo.. it takes all types. Find a thing that you want to keep coming back to. Best of luck!
I now consider it a super-power, and a luxury—to have someone totally external to my normal life, that I talk to regularly, who understand me, and who is paid to help me. It’s the only relation in my life where the dialog is 100% about me, and my well being, where I don’t have to have any considerations for anything, or anyone else, else at that time.
Highly recommend it!
Before the pandemic I was super into renfairs and live action roleplay and met a lot of my best friends through that.
I also have a few friends I know from various places I've worked, but... not many in traditional software development.
I really think that software development got "too easy" for them, and now all the fun logic challenges are in super abstract stuff and constant fussing, and that somehow leads devs down a hole of isolation.
Random Code blogs basically tell you to constantly rewrite and refactor and perfect and to always be trying new code katas.
The whole culture revolves around tinkering with random small toy projects. Which is extremely isolating because.... nobody cares all that much. Anyone who would care has their own random toy projects.
It's hard to make friends when you are encouraged to spend your free time on things that, almost by design, nobody else will care about.
Programmers seem to hate software. It's always bloat this, insecurity that, all day. That's also isolating, when the whole industry feels so negative about their own work.
Some of it is legitimately crap, but I feel like even some of the people doing amazing world changing stuff probably enjoy playing with Vim plugins more than their job.
Nobody wants to be social when they feel like shit, or be around other people who visibly are depressed.
Not that that's how I think it should be, of course, but it seems to be true.
It seems like there is a cloud of darkness over software culture, and the whole "nerd scene" in general gets sucked into it.
Something is also wrong with video games too but I'm not sure what. They are no longer ultra exciting. Nobody camps out in line for a Wii. LAN parties are mostly gone.
Something happened to the tech industry and everything "Nerd related".
Maybe it's just because I've only ever worked tech and it's like this everywhere... but software seems uniquely isolating.
Try meetups (even meetup.com). It only takes one person you meet to stick and become a friend, and that's 1000x better than where you started. Keep doing it, go to random meetups and things where there will be other people open to making friends. You don't need to actually be interested in whatever the activity is (though many meetups are at bars), it's just an excuse to meet people, just like college was.
Try standup comedy clubs/shows (the small ones). These people are usually friendly, and people usually stick around to chat afterwards. You can meet people easily this way.
Eventually you or someone you meet will ask to do another activity together (maybe food, maybe golfing, who knows). You could even make it a regular thing over time. This kind of thing builds the sense of community you're looking for.
Wanna feel good tomorrow? Go to a few stores (or similar) and make small talk with some cashiers. Try your best to engage and be nice. You may not meet a friend this way, but you'll connect with others in your community around you, which will certainly help.
After enough of rolling with this crew I am regularly recognized when I go out to other events by people I met and partied with once or twice, and then they introduce me to their friends, and suddenly I have even more people to talk to and befriend. It becomes a virtuous cycle.
I consider myself an introvert and prefer staying in most nights. But most people think of me as a hard-partying Hollywood type. I can only attribute that to simply showing up. (Though the pandemic has taught me I might actually be one of those introvert-extrovert hybrids, the "omnivert")
So if there's one thing that I know works, it is persistently showing up to things that have the kind of people you want to meet.
Thinking positive thoughts and making compliments. Walk around the world with the belief that it’s is a wonderful place and that you have the ability to make friends. You have as much right to be liked and loved as others.
Work part time. As a developer, you can make 7-10k usd a month working part time, without much effort, from any part of the world. This is pure luck, we live a time with free money, VCs are pouring the tech with billions and billions, grab the cash.
No western country: Move to a place with sun, parties and good food like mexico or thailand. It's much more easy to make new friends in your 30s in a foreign country because western migrants are always grouping together, in small communities easy to find and to join. Bonus point, go to a place with peaceful locals, no stressed commuters and welcoming people. Learn the local language, make new friends in the new country.
Improve yourself, now you have free time to travel deeply in yourself, understand the whole psychologic movement happening in your brain. You have time to experiment and ultimately learn how peace and hapiness is generated in your brain and body. You will also learn how to understand other people, which will lead to new friendships.
I'm only leaving this comment cause it's the second time I see someone complaining about this. I'm a dev, also in my 30, single and looking... If you have the opportunity to travel (working remotely) book a nice hotel and go travel.
Book clubs. Films clubs. Run clubs. Hell, take up fishing and go to meetups (super social sport, believe it or not).
There are many varied ways to connect with other people. If it is a romantic partner you want to meet and you are a straight man, skip fishing meet ups and replace that recommendation with Yoga or Zumba.
This is your problem, or one of them. Stop judging people and seeing them as below you. Guess what — you may not be short or aged, but you are also lonely. Probably have more in common with them.
This attitude will poison you even if you meet "normal" people, you will find reasons to talk yourself out of meeting them.
Do people like this exist? I thaught it was just a meme/stereotype.
"On Self-Respect" https://www.vogue.com/article/joan-didion-self-respect-essay...
The money you'll have from still working on the tech side will allow you to bail out easily into suburbia if you ever do develop a taste for it
Games could be a good option too - small/medium studios full of people who are really passionate about what they do, like Klei, Supergiant, Private Division, etc. Might be too nerdy of a crowd for your taste, but you might be pleasantly surprised too
* Train for a 10k run and then train for a half marathon.
* Join a local charity and contribute towards your community.
* Join the military and learn new skills while traveling the world.
* Build something with your hands such as modeling or wood working.
* Write. Writing is a skill so no matter what you are writing it will take some practice.
* Get a pet to raise and cherish it. My cats and dogs are among my closest life companions.
* Go back to school and work on a graduate degree.
Yeah, one definitely both wants to grow up and not lose the smiles in the photos of when we were young. I feel you.
What you've described sounds like a spiritual crisis, but I couldn't counsel you through that without knowing you better. I will say this, your world has changed, and that is loss, and loss has to be mourned before you move on to the new season. So give yourself some grace if you're upset with yourself for being upset—no, being upset is natural, it's grief and you can't control it into oblivion.
Chasing a different profession with the idea that that somehow going to make things better is very risky. Could work out, but a lot of girls dump the old abusive boyfriend and find a new abusive boyfriend... You want to make sure you understand why you were attracted to the problem case before you go find another problem case, yes? If you feel like you have adequately done that soul searching, then yeah, follow your gut. But the gut definitely has a bias to retreading the same mistakes again and again, you have to compensate for that bias.
The biggest thing that I will say is, you can't be living as if you'll get everything in order today and start your actual life tomorrow. If you do that you will never recover those looks from the photos from when we were young. This is it: that is your first axiom. It may be weird for a religious person to be telling you that, hah... but even we have the problem, as Hillel’s poem goes, ‘... don't say “I’ll study when I am free” / for maybe you will never be!’
Good luck recovering that brightness of youth. If you are looking for interests, might I suggest binging some podcasts or Teaching Company courses or audiobooks or so, find something that catches your interest there and build up from that initial connection?
Of course, there’s a lot more to my story, but that’s where it ended up, and it has made all the difference in the world.
Nothing good is ever easy, and the most interesting roads are full of twists and turns.
I sincerely wish you well.
I believe it’s okay not to be “normal.” Do what is restful for you, which may not be normal at all. Then be looking out for others who like those things too.
Folks say relationships take time, but I believe it’s something which can happen gradually and then suddenly.
I don’t know what you enjoy doing outside of code. But doing things which are not code helps me rest and helps me find other folks over time who also like that rest. And the friendship grows deeper with these shared experiences.
A new job or address can help you meet new people. But think about what’s restful for you and then be looking out for people who like doing that.
I say restful because then the activity is motivating even without a friendship, but as you go do those things you tend to bump into people who also enjoy those things. And who doesn’t want to be around people who are just as motivated about something as you are? It’s a joy I wish for everyone and I believe it happens gradually and then suddenly. :)
Remember how people will see you. A 30-something guy, programmer. How fit are you? Socially competent? Are you reasonably successful? Do you have skills and hobbies outside of work? Skiing, martial arts, scuba, sailing, climbing, lifting, whatever.
A girl will look at you and likely have some expectation of where you should be at your age. Hint- it should look like you haven’t been wasting your life. Savings, career, house, decent car, well spoken, fit, etc. Remember, the more attractive/ younger, the more options she has. How do you stack up against the competition?
Do you have any female friends? If not, get some. It’ll be a real eye opener seeing the world through her eyes. A world where she gets hit on constantly and lied to to get into her pants almost as much. It will at least teach you what not to say and do.
This has no basis in reality, it's a distortion. You can make friends. Do what people do when they settle in a new city: meetup groups, pick up sports, book clubs etc. Covid is a current impediment, but it won't be later.
This sounds like loneliness. Having a partner helps.
> On the other hand, I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups, and get out of the apathy
Having had corporate & government gigs in offices, and working remote, I would re-think that assumption. What the office environment grants at the very least is water-cooler talk, which provides at least some level of socializing. Not necessarily more than that. A good social group need not depend on workmates. At any rate, you can meet new people outside of work, and offices never made me feel any less lonely in and of themselves in my worst years.
There’s no magic to fix this like there’s no magic that will make you a physicist by next month.
It will take time & effort. And no, no pill will fix this either & it could easily make it worse.
Slowly build those social skills if that’s what u want. Read books, watch videos, get counseling, practice, practice, practice.
Keep in mind, “ Loneliness is primarily a psychological state. A person who spends a lot of time alone, and is ok with that, is not lonely. Conversely, there are people who say they feel lonely even when they are in the company of others”.
Maybe u just need to find the right balance. Whatever u do, figure out first who u really want to become. Is very easy to take the wrong route again, & again & again…
BTW, the counselor (therapist or whatever) doesn’t have the answer either. The answer resides inside you. Use the counselor as a rubber duct. Talking about it, is like doing an extensive research.
During COVID I had some time to think, and I thought back to what I enjoyed as a kid and what I was good at, and I remember always wanting to go fast. So I got into simracing, loved it, did a bunch of research to find the best hub for my new hobby, and long story short I'm moving to Finland to pursue amateur racing in real life for fun and building a community around that. Their real estate market seems good and it looks like people still like to have fun and live life there. I've been to a bunch of races and its super easy to make friends. I enjoy working on things with people more than I enjoy drinking and stuff so it worked out for me.
If you want to meet new people you're going to have to bond around something whether it's a new hobby or an old one. When you're young it's easy, you bond over anything. School, shit jobs, getting high, etc.
When you get older it's tougher. My theory is that because as we get older out time gets more limited so we get more selective. So pick something non-nerdy like sports for example (crossfit, running, hiking). Or maybe work remote from one of those live-in coworking spaces (check out Outsite for example).
I feel you man, I've been there and sometimes still am. My suggestion is do any of the above or reconnect with an old friend and foster that friendship. Having a few good friends goes a long way.
Oh, and for those fun loving 20 something upstairs? You're looking at through rose colored glasses at a brief moment in time. They're probably lonely too. We were at that age.
I know you said doing things yourself is boring and depressing, and this won't fix the social aspect or give you wild and crazy fun, but it's what changed things for me, when all my usual hobbies and activities didn't. The separation it imposed from my day to day recontextualized everything; it made the job I hated bearable, it gave me purpose each week to figure out where I'd go that weekend, and a task to solve in actually making that hike happen. I felt great afterwards (exercise + accomplished something personal to me), and it started to change how I interacted with the world. It wasn't a magical fix-all, but it started the ball rolling in a bunch of different ways, changing my outlook and how I presented myself to the world, in what I invested in, and it clearly had an effect on how others saw me.
I would say, don't be too hard on yourself. Yeah, you're lonely, your job is monotonous and unstimulating. That's real, that's what it is, and that's ok. You're really not having fun. Just be honest with yourself and that will make the burden lighter.
Get yourself sorted. The happiest people I know listened to Stefan Molyneux for years. If I were you I would listen to him for a couple of years.
It's time to feel the pain... No way around it. All the answers are probably not going to please you. Maybe you'll have to make some sacrifices. Just listen to yourself, be honest with yourself, and get yourself sorted.
- small steps
- accept failures, don't let them stop you. My first "solo-traveller" holiday was a disaster, but the next four were great
- be open (i.e. say "yes" to things even if you don't really feel like it - being with people is IMO well worth it)
- life throws spanners in the works - but also golden opportunities
- help others. I enjoy baking and cooking, I might meet friends and bring some home-made treats along. Or offer to help them in DIY.
- be pro-active. e.g. ask if anyone fancies a walk/visit to a local attraction. Arrange a trip somewhere. Your circles may start small (e.g. with work colleagues) however make them interesting and it can grow.
- meetup.com has been helpful, however do something you'd enjoy _anyway_ - if you meet someone (friends or romantically) that's a bonus
This isn't a panacea, I'm personally struggling. However when I look at the good things I _do_ have, this is how I have them.
I’m going to assume positive intent here: what you probably mean is that most people who do this have other agendas/goals and you want to meet someone genuine who wants to have some fun.
Moving to a big city would be a good option. You’ll find regular people who are still single and like to have fun.
I would encourage checking out local arts. Live music, theater etc
Join a trendy gym craze. Idk what’s in these days but CrossFit/orange theory etc make it a point to build community around them. Gives you a chance to hang out with normies. You end up seeing the same people a few times which makes it a lot less awkward to say “hey let’s hangout sometime”.
Also, make an effort to communicate with people and hang out. It's hard and takes a while to break through. Once you make a strong friendship with one or two people, you'll start meeting more. It's absolutely not impossible to get into a good friend group.
You could sell all your stuff and work from an RV. You could move to East Asia. You could get a more socially engaging job. Try lots of stuff until you find what you want. What are you working for? If you don't know, figure it out.
One way to meet lots of people you’d be able to relate to without abandoning your engineering career is to start a startup - your own company, where you use your developer skills to make a product.
That’s what I did, and the only time I dove back into depression was after we got acquired and I had to deal with a regular job again.
If you don’t have any ideas, there are lots of folks looking for technical cofounders - e.g. at this YC resource: https://www.ycombinator.com/cofounder-matching
Being a founder comes with its own set of challenges, but over the past few years mental health in entrepreneurship has been adopted as a serious issue by the community - you’d have a wealth of resources and plenty of people will help you without expecting anything in return.
Wait wait. What's wrong with approaching random strangers? That's literally the only robust solution to this problem.
> they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
You mean, socially awkward like you? You think that short guys and unattractive women aren't good enough for you, but I'm guessing that tall guys and attractive girls impute the same kind of vapid judgement to you that you do to aging women? Essentially, you're just miserable because you're starting to realize you belong to the same low value category you despise so much.
But maybe consider some part time, low responsibility, public facing job. Don't worry about the pay, that's not the idea. Something that will put you in front of people to talk to.
In my opinion, big cities like NYC can make it better or worse even. They make it extra hard to build community as everyone is minding their own business and people come and go without any attachment to anyone, but on the upside there's a lot more people, so the odds are obviously better.
- Try coworking instead of home, or change job. Work is definitely the easiest way to socialize (besides being a parent).
- You could also retry the flatshare thing as well. Plenty of creative people do it in their 30s. It's fun. People are cleaner. Why not?
- Or, you may try and volunteer in a non-profit / charity / political party / art group. This is kind of like work, but with people who are not in it for money so more socializing. There is always some computer stuff to do in these.
- Also, you can try teach coding somewhere. You can make teacher friends...
More generally "how can I help?" is an easier icebreaker than "will you talk to me?", and literally everyone needs to know someone who can code.
In all honesty, that feeling of isolation (i think) has a lot to do with just feeling bored because you've got nothing you want to do or anyone to do that with. Expand your peripheral a bit, figure out what makes you excited, try new things, (yes take a class). If you really liked dancing - like a lot - then yea you might make friends there if you decide to take enough classes idk.
When I got back into diving I found multiple avenues for opportunities to make friends. One - the dives themself are typically always with other people, two the planned trips together, three the classes themselves, four honing your own skills and learning how to become an instructor..etc.
I've known friends who got really into rebuilding cars, jeeps, motorcycles..etc for instance that they became regulars at certain places, groups or meetups that you make friends that way. Or others who are really into d&d, cosplay, and loads of other geeky stuff. It's a preference thing of what you like to do and whether other people like to do that too. Like a child who just wants someone to play with. It's innate.
Personally I'm a bit biased towards doing hobbies that involve being outside and doing something physical. Too much time in front of a computer staring a code all day - I need to do something else sometimes. Helps to talk to other people when you're working on some other skill set - you learn from others and you get to meet cool people. However, I've also just enjoyed playing card games and setting up movie nights - just having something you like doing together with other people - whether that's a group of friends or your wife and kids (for the parents/married group)
Everyone proceeds to tell him to go to therapy, lol.
The main gist is that many of the things you see in people are just a reflection of yourself, mostly your insecurities/defects. Try to really get to know people without instantly assigning the label "unattractive", "looking for a husband", "boring" when you see them. People are very complex; everyone has good and bad parts. Even if you have no interest in befriending someone, just try to understand them and their point of view, it will also help you understand yourself better and what you really want.
After you leave college, you’re transitioning out from a life in which you always had people around you who you went to classes with and had some shared context to form bonds.
Money? Yeah you could flex a little. But they like other stuff more. And you got a gaping god-sized hole in your life. Women are big into spirituality. Hot ones, nice ones. Get yourself a priestess, mate.
Or you could get rich first, by starting a business, cuz it'll be hard to do that after the kids start coming.
Now, if you want religious suggestions, I can offer you a coder-friendly menu...
But most of all, stop thinking about how you can fix your depression and start thinking about how you can benefit whichever groups you identify with. That will put the light back in your eyes immediately.
It helped me! But not sure if what you want.
> my life is pretty much done
Hahahaha
Consider that we have essentially figured out how to live super long (> 100) and maybe even much longer, your life is faaaaar from over.
My advice is to take a sabbatical and go travel. You’ll meet lots of people outside of your zone and have fun.
no offense, but this seems like a social experiment or fodder for a medium article no one will ever read. Supposing you're genuine, you have a few options: a) get dogs and go do a dog park b) find a magic wand and wave it c) (sorry this is against site guidelines) stop being a loser - and, no, material success has nothing to do with that.
In NYC you will find enough of everything. As a city it has different problems (eg. hustler culture, dating is like mortal kombat, making you feel disposable, where anything longer than 3 months is considered long term). But at least you wont be bored.
And if you don't like interacting with people, just go to coffee places, work from there and people watch. NYC has plenty to offer.
https://semiosis.github.io/posts/describing-melee-s-painting...
Coupling some generic perceived success in life with some generic perceived beauty standard is a real bane of our society.
did you try those things? they're common advice for a reason.
> I tried to meet new people at hobbies and dance lessons, but guess what - they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
...are those people not worthy of meeting?
> Finding friends in my teens and 20s was as easy as going out literally anywhere.
what happened to those friends? what about contacting them?
You go to places for socially awkward people and are astonished to meet socially awkward people. Woah, who would have thought.
Yes, your peers are changing diapers. But here's a brilliant idea - you are a man and women love older men with resources. Go to places where these younger women are and you will solve your problem.
What will not solve your problem is yapping about it on hackernews, because as you may have guessed, young women are not known to hang out at hackernews.
You sound like a mid career dev, you should be well situated. OK 401K, pay, 'benes, etc. About wealth, they say "you can't take it with you." Spend some of it living it up now while you're well situated.
Don't worry about being nerdy - there is someone out there waiting for you! You are an attractive man. Finding a spouse will dramatically improve your quality of life.
There are enough options to reach this goal. Online dating comes to mind, but it might take a while to find the right match, so hang in there!
Two(recently divorced 30yo woman, 35-40 divorced man) got into swing dancing (met her now husband there and they have 2 kids) and folk dancing (met his 20 year relationship gf there). Advantage of dancing is that usually people are very sociable... my folk dancing friend ended up with a huge circle of friends who would go out as a group for restaurants and other cultural events.
Gym: as mentioned by others.
I might recommend learning either piano or guitar, it helped me at least...
In "stable" cities and contexts, people have established social groups that can be hard to "break in" to.
It's much easier to make friends as a nomad, because everyone is in a state of constant flux. This also means that a lot of friends will come and go, but you can always make new ones.
Check out this website[1] for a list of places you could move to that have thriving nomad communities.
Try to do things that really interest you. Also don’t judge non-attractive people. They may make good friends and introduce you to their friends who might be attractive for you.
And even if only thing interests you is programming then try to volunteer your programming skills somewhere. Not only you might meet someone but also do social good.
https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20181016-how-the-finnish-...
Moved back home recently. Found out that I didn’t like being back. Went to European city for a year. Went to meetup when I got there; made loads of friends. It was a really fun year. Albeit very transient.
Now I’m back in Asia. Ultimately you’re looking for a life partner. So a gf. No number of friends will fill that void.
Take a meaningful break, or vacation,
and begin doing work that is closer to something you are actually passionate about.
I've been traveling and living abroad for the last 4 years after getting sick of the NYC grind. Although I wouldn't sell it as some miracle cure as it definitely has had its ups and downs, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
You don't need to conform to some traditional idea of what life is supposed to look like. Create your own path.
You could hike the Appalachian trail. Or the Annapurna trail. Do a month at an animal shelter in the Amazon. Live on the beach in Mexico or Thailand or Bali for a few months. Study Spanish in Argentina. Whatever you do, sell everything and start over.
Only becasue you think it is. Husbands with kids would LOVE to trade places with you lol. Im single but at work all the dads complain lol
Fix yourself first.
Just look at https://old.reddit.com/r/relationship_advice
Having a relationship is exhausting.
For me online works. Just join discords and talk & game. And if you dont like someone, just ignore or block. easy
A difference between guys born in the 60/70s vs 90/2000s is that we were a lot less picky about the chicks we banged. Not sure what changed in the culture but I don't think the current situation is optimal for anyone.
BTW, I know that I am not speaking for everyone from these age groups but I am comparing boys I grew up with vs my boys who were born between 1990 and 2004.
In terms of things to do (other than therapy or looking to start changing diapers) - Learn to day trade - it’s a whole other world out there with great community (virtual), and software engineers do well in that environment. Travel the world in your spare time.
1. When I was in my late 20’s, I would meet my existing friends and try to hang out with their social groups. It helped me make a lot of really good friends.
2. Sports: If you are interested in a sport, try and see if there are local clubs where you can play. If you become an active member, they will call you to hang our with their group, where you can make more friends.
I didn't grow up going to church but I started going as a young adult. I met my wife and nearly all my closest friends there. I still go 30 years later.
I love my church community. It has wonderful people, weird people, intelligent people, mentally disabled people, rich people, poor people, programmers, bin men and at least a dozen people I call close friends.
I would recommend looking at your life the same way you look at your code (presumably you care about the quality of code you write). Try something different and if it does not work then try something else. No one will be handing you what you want on a silver platter and if they did you certainly would not appreciate it ;)
Good luck!
If you are feeling lonely I suggest getting back together with friends from college/high school or joining hobbies/groups. That's what helped me when I was alone in the Bay area
Welcome to becoming a mature adult in the real world! It's true, as people age they become gringey dorks. And you may be surprised... It happens even to people who don't work in tech. I participate in a few communities that have little or nothing to do with tech, and they're still filled with awkward characters searching for connection too.
Sure, there are people in their 30's still partying and leading the lifestyles of the young and beautiful. But, maybe those people are still doing that because they haven't grown much since their early 20's. And if you haven't found focus in life beyond "being cool" and drinking and socializing by the time you're in your mid 40's, that lifestyle starts to be a pretty cringey look of its own.
Maturing emotionally means becoming more guarded and picky. You and the people around you have lived in the world, become invested in your own ways of living, and taken damage from the ups and downs of life. It's never again going to be as easy as being 20 something in a room full of 20-somethings who all want to meet each other right now.
But, there's also the chance for connection beyond what's possible at a party with "laughing, kicking and screaming" full of people who closely match your demographic. Ask people what their lives are about, people usually like talking about themselves. You'll get them to open up and you'll learn new things. Let things take time and be willing to let friendships form on a timescale more like months or years rather than days or weeks.
Not so much to your original point, but you mentioned "quitting the career"... If you're sick of tech, start on your second career. Even if you're not super confident, pick something that seems doable and pursue it. It will be exciting and rewarding and you will re-experience the feeling of joyous surprise you once felt when learning tech. You have time for this and can afford this easily since you're making tech job money and it sounds like you have time for weekend/evening/intensive classes. And you will meet a new batch of people. I've been in a program where I've taken a number of classes with the same group, and it's been a great way to get to know some new friends.
No reason to be scared because you don't have to "quit the career". Tech will take you back if your other thing doesn't work. You can learn a new thing and switch back and forth. Or you can do both part time.
I think the biggest thing is managing expectations. Nothing works the way we envisioned it as kids. It's disappointing, but that's life.
No really, time is running out.
You will very quickly meet tonnes of people and can travel and see the world. Constant stimulation.
And if you are ever lonely while doing the above then download Tinder and start meeting people in your area.
But I mean if you live in a huge city in a shit neighborhood, maybe try a nicer neighborhood. Or if you like in a small town or city with nothing going on, maybe try a bigger city. Mix things up.
Learn to be the host of your own events, to connect the new acquaintances you do meet to each other, rather than sitting around waiting for a new person you just met to text you. When I was at my peak extroversion and friend-making skills while I was doing my own digital nomad thing, I would literally throw out random "you seem like a pretty cool person and I'm new here and trying to make new friends, here's my number if you'd like to go out for drinks with me and another recent acquaintance I've made named Jorb this weeekend" to random employees at cafes, whereever and hand them a napkin with my #. Cringe as hell, but when you get truly desperate while traveling you throw your pride to the floor.
Live in a walkable big city with lots of events and diverse types of people if you hate the nerd monoculture (see NYC not Palo Alto). Or if you are in a smaller place, lean even harder into making things happen yourself. If there's no first-person drone racing group in Toledo, OH but that's what you wanna do - figure out ways to advertise it - start your own. Tell every person you meet and everyone you interact with - cashiers or whoever - that you're starting a FPV drone racing group and if they are interested or know anyone who might be to check the meetup.com site you make or whatever. Pretend you're a quest giver in an MMO.
Join activities where there's opportunity to talk during or after (so not a yoga class, but yes to a kickball league where you're on the sidelines for stretches), or there's activity->followed by drinks. Just make sure you limit yourself to a drink or two and don't make getting drunk a necessary part of friendship. It's not sustainable, especially in your 30s.
Join activities (or create your own) where you'll see the same group each week.
Put forth effort. It's hard, but it's worthwhile.
Avoid friendships that only are fun when you are both drinking. Or friendships that are based on no common interest/activity OR humor. You either need to share an interest or share humor for it to work IMO, even if getting drunk together for a couple of years once a week will make the person tolerable.
Accept that a lot of activities that foster friendship just either cost money, and allocate the budget for it, because its absolutely important for mental health (if you are the type that is extremely frugal, but also feeling really depressed or lonely).
When you start to make friends, try to think about what you can do for them. Check in on how they are feeling, offer help when they are struggling with something, or offer to bring food when they are sick, or move boxes when they are moving. The older you get, the more difficult it is to forge really strong emotional bonds, but that means these sorts of things mean a lot more to people.
I feel this way and I'm very happy about it. I've lived my youth and now it's my turn to ensure future generations, especially my children, have the same opportunity.
This site is a great way to find one: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
Or take up some kind of sports. Kickball seems to be a thing for 20-somethings now, but there's softball, and there are running groups.
Being there is like living midway down a river. Just stay there and “they” will come.
If you ask for a radical solution, and you're from English-speaking country, my radical suggestion is: go teach English in country like Brazil or Russia, Ukraine, etc, but make sure you stay outside of the capitals, where expats are rare enough. I know some guys who did this, they have social life, are rather important people, and have no reason to come home to be the average Joe.
If that's not an option, like it wasn't for me, manage the probabilities. All hobby groups are places where you have a chance to get some social life/couple. But they differ. Invest less time in those with awkward people, but don't abandon completely -- sometimes friends from there will invite you to other, more interesting social groups.
Eco-, new-urbanism or political activist groups are much better than dance groups, because people go to dance exactly to find a couple, whereas any form of activism filters those out and the share of "normal" people is much higher. (Of course, their age and marital status may vary, so choose appropriately.)
Where you live also matters. A metropolis is very un-social, interactions are awkward, and you must be highly active to just stay in contact with some people. A small town has much more social cohesion, but may make you passive in dating. Something in the middle is better.
Living in suburbia is antisocial, it's better to live in walking distance from places to socialize in a walkable city.
Since you're still looking for a couple, it's better to live near a university where the share of young people is higher. Also, write down when you had dates, or was approached, and what social activities you had then -- it can give insights.
P.S. Therapy works only as painkiller. After couple of meetings therapists open up their stone-age beliefs: NLP, positive thinking, hypnosis, homeopathy.
Is it possible that's a factor here?
My approach to this has always been to start with first principles. It has unerringly kept me in a position where the general state of my life felt coherent and fulfilling.
I'm about to get specific but it's only to illustrate how this framing helped me. I am not at all trying to say you choose the same set of options I did.
For me having a balanced family life was always going to be mandatory, even though I tend toward workaholism. Having one parent stay at home and take care of the kids was high up there (didn't have to be me, but I like work and my wife doesn't ;). Marrying someone with similar values was essential. Nearly as important was work that fulfilled me and that was consonant with my moral/ethical requirements. At the bottom was making enough money that I could take care of my family.
Definitely not saying you should adopt those same values. What I'm saying is that it helped us figure out what decisions would help us in the long run. We opted not to move to Silicon Valley because we hated the work/life imbalance there. We made less money early on (pre kids) because my wife didn't work. At that time I did a lot of freelancing and studying. My wife understood that work was necessary and didn't bug be about it, though we still went out to movies and restaurants, based on a tight budget (it was fun). We didn't have the extra expenses or stress of a second working person, but my working & studying at night gave me the skills to get very successful later. We both hated debt so we happily lived without a kitchen table and ate on the floor for a few months until we could pay cash for one.
Another hack I have is to set things up so second best is still pretty good. When I was younger I wanted to be rock star but at some point in my early 20s I realized that wouldn't happen. I chose second best, programming--for which I had zero aptitude and almost no experience. Had to work as a tech writer so I could teach myself programming, but eventually got there. Another example of second best working out well: we used to live on the beach in Southern California. But when we worked out what was most important to us, it turned out the Pacific Northwest was better all in all. Would I rather live on the water in Newport Beach? Hell yes! But we live on a beautiful peaceful farm outside of Seattle where life is much more sane, there's actual privacy, and there's plenty of room for animals and band instruments. A damn good second best.
I always loved programming and feel lucky to do it. Maybe you don't like it as much? Perhaps it would be worthwhile to do a spreadsheet listing other options that you'd like, and start making moves toward the next step in your life.
Last, once you've settled on how to be a pretty good version of yourself, you'll find it sort of magnetizes other people to you. I am totally not good looking but I'm comfortable in my own skin and confident about where I'm going. It has made a massive difference in my life.
Good luck. This whole situation could wind up working out well for you.
It looks like you don’t really want to solve the issue, rather just get busy solving it.
Because therapy is the answer, often is the only real answer, way better than any advice you can possibly imagine getting on the internet.
Even though finding a good therapist might take a lot of work itself.
Im speaking from personal experience of running away from similar issues by finding sophisticated ways of procrastination.
tldr; You (like many others) are having an existential crisis. The facts that previously underpinned your reality no longer seem true. Your challenge is to find some way to live authentically. What you've identified, a sense of belonging, is crucial part of living authentically for many people.
---
I'm 35, and though I have a growing family, I am also nostalgic for that time in my mid 20s where I had less money, but intimate friends were close at hand. Recently, I've been having a feeling that something is "over".
The best encapsulation of this feeling I've read is from the Witcher short story "The Bounds of Reason". "... a wish, as desire, a yearning. Faith that there are no limits to possibility"
The ignorance of youth is really ignorance of an unknown future stretches out ahead. As I've aged the limits of possibility made themselves apparent. That faith in limitlessness was broken, and that break caused an existential crisis.
The single piece of advice I have is to grapple directly with the nature of the human condition. There are lots of ways people deal with this: finding a purpose, finding a community (like a real one, not one based on a comercial product), finding god. Put simply, the
I've seen a lot of nice ideas: volunteering, relocating, exposing yourself to different kinds of people, finding projects, therapy. I've found those helpful. But that might not be enough.
A crisis is also an opportunity. This is a chance to reevaluate what your life means to you, and what you want to do with the time you have.
I wish you the best.
Teens use a 30 yo smoker as evidence that smoking doesnt kill one even in old age
Leave and set up your own business/startup doing dev work similar to what you do now, ideally serving customers you are familiar with.
Hire some young people, trainee dev, secretary etc.
Better social and a career move forward. Even if you take a pay cut you are going from dev to more a ceo type thing on the cv.
It seems that people hit a certain age and just retreat. First, they move to a city or suburb where they know nobody so they can have a yard, drive to a Dairy Queen, and/or earn $15,0000 more. They enjoy the new lifestyle for 5-7 years—they get a car, they work on their house, maybe they have a kid. Then they look around and ask themselves, "What's the point of all this?" The thing that makes life worth living, which is, by and large, human connection, is just not there. Often all this is precipitated by a couple settling down into a relationship, then ignoring or uncultivating prior relationships and becoming 100% of each other's social lives, or, alternately, the development of workaholic habits combined with moderate addictions to boring things like sleeping pills or TV.
The reality is that maintaining or, even more difficult, creating a social life in your 30s and beyond requires energy, organization, thick skin, and relatively strong social skills. Often people don't have even one of these, let alone all four. And, as people age, and careers peak or stall, it becomes even more obvious that the only thing that really matters in life is human connection. Having kids helps here, but only so much.
A few decades ago, there were thriving cultures of local community that it was almost difficult not to join. People would, by and large, go to church. They were part of civic organizations like the Knights of Colombus, book club, weird utopian or improvement clubs (Bellamy societies), business associations, bowling league, Rotory Club, or INSERT WORKPLACE HERE Over 40s Poker. Local politics was a thing, the bar scene was a thing, dancing was a thing. The average person would be in ~5 of these. Nights where you would stay in would be more uncommon than nights you would go out.
What happened? It's hard to say exactly, and there are lots of books on it (Bowling Alone is a good one). But cable TV and the internet, I think, are big parts of it. It was just not possible before a certain year for the average person to stay in all the time. It was just too boring. TV sucked There were, functionally, no games as we now know them. No porn as we now know it. No social media, no link aggregators, no chat rooms, no dating apps. There were drugs, but they were more social drugs (coke and booze). MJ was pretty bad and niche, people were popping massively fewer sleeping pills and opiates. If you wanted to watch a movie, you left your home. If you wanted stimulation, or your fix of dopamine, probably you left your home.
It was a more dangerous world. People would booze, and fight. There was more serious crime before the 90s, discrimination. People fucked more, and with more people. There were predators. People would also get together and drink, and talk about ideas. There were social movements that were actually kind of new. People would get together and drink, and make music. There were scenes, undergrounds. You had the Harlem Renaissance, the Berlin School. Places were a thing, you would go to another city and the scene would be a different scene and the culture a different culture. There would be a cene around a bar, or a street, or a music store.
What OP is experiencing is the default state in the US in 2022. The inertia is to stay inside, be alone or with your immediate family, and to get your fix there. We've invented technologies of approximation and recapitulation. Social Media approximates human connection. Porn approximates sex. GrubHub approximates going to a restaurant. On social media and 24/7 news, all prior social and artistic movements are recapitulated. We try out the 60s in 2020, we try out the 70s in 2022. We larp as Malcolm X or Ira Glasser or Ronald Reagan. Place is collapsed, Montreal and Berlin get the same internet as San Francisco. There are fewer murders and less STDs and fewer missing children. There are fewer artistic movements, serendipitous connections, long afternoons betting on the races. Tolkein doesn't meet Lewis, Diddian doesn't meet Dunn, Hemingway stays away from the bulls. Unless you make a big effort, you live inside your head, and your head is inside and staring at a screen.
So maybe OP is depressed, but maybe it's not just OP. Maybe this time and place has something to do with it.
If you're fun (warning: it sounds like you're not fun), you can probably just party with them. We're the same age and I've had girlfriends that are still in college. It's not weird if you're not weird about it.
If you haven't had kids and aren't boring, 18+ is a valid dating range.
> Finding friends in my teens and 20s was as easy as going out literally anywhere.
It still is, you're just going to the wrong places or presenting yourself wrong.
> When I eventually went to work, I thought my life would only get better. And I made a good career, but in the process, steadily drifted off into isolation.
I think there may be some naivety here. Work is to acquire capital, to invest in assets, to generate capital, to avoid work. Work is not supposed to be fun or satisfying. Work is supposed to acquire capital.
I think in previous generations, you could ask coworkers out on dates, but that's dangerous and most SWEs are remote now anyway. It's best to keep work to just work.
> they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
If that's not your scene, then don't go to those places. Find something that's cool and happening now and meet people doing things that excite you.
If the goal is young women, you can be in your 40s and find plenty of college girls interested in age gap relationships.
> All the "normal" people I knew in the past are now changing diapers and working to pay off their mortgages, which I guess is a kind of consolation.
The people I know with kids end up so defeated that they essentially martyr themselves with employment to give their children a better future. I understand that people willingly make this choice, but it's not for me. It's really good to see times changing and the idea of "normal" going away.
> Still, I'm only in my 30s, and it feels like my life is pretty much done. Doing things by myself is boring and depressing, and getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.
This is your error because it's not impossible. I've seen whole communities of old people form meaningful friendships and they're all 70+.
It might be impossible for you while you're doing your career. That's ok. People will still be around when you're done working.
If you're at the peak of your dev career in your 30s, you can probably be retired by 40 with some good negotiation/investment.
> In case someone has any advice beyond finding a hobby, going to therapy, approaching random strangers, it would be greatly appreciated. I don't have any skills other than coding, so quitting the career would be a major financial hit. On the other hand, I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups, and get out of the apathy
IMO you're already in deep enough that you might as well see it through. Try to get a job with high total comp, work hard for a few more years, retire before 40. Learn enough about investing and finance that you don't screw it up.
Then simply do things you find legitimately interesting that involve other people. It's important that you actually care about the activity, so you can be happy and confident and present at your best.
You can't just "try ballroom dancing" and expect to meet a new group of cool friends. Compete with cool people at doing cool things, and then you'll have groups of cool friends.
Maybe audition for a rock band. Or start an NFT project. Or become a nature youtuber. Or dance on TikTok. Or whatever you'd do anyway, once you're not tied down by a tech job.
But, as I sat there in my booth reading my novel and nursing my beer(s), I noticed two women -- old friends, from what I overheard of their conversation -- in the booth next to mine. A while after that, I noticed that they had also noticed me, and a further while after that, we struck up a conversation. Can't recall if the blonde one, whom I at first found the more attractive of them, threw me a line or if it was me who interjected some joke into their conversation. Perhaps they asked what I was reading, or something. Anyway, after some time talking, I came to the conclusion that the brunette was even nicer -- not just good looking, but a great sense of humour (got in some real zingers about me, but all in good fun), and with a very sensible outlook on life in general. So I did my best to keep up my end of the conversation, took an interest in them -- no faking it, I was interested! -- and hung around until the talk turned to what to do for the rest of the evening. Can't recall who suggested another place, with music and dancing. So there we went.
The place was called Pikkuparlamentti, "Little Parliament", because it was right next to the parliament building. (Hm, also closed now -- am I cursed?!? Naah, at least media claimed it was torn down because the Finnish Parliament expanded their building in that direction.) This place was really popular at the time, so we talked some more while waiting in line to get in. At the door, disaster struck: "Sorry, no jeans and no sneakers!" I told the ladies I'd see them inside a little later, and took a taxi home to change and back there quicker than I would have thought possible. Then I danced, IIRC with both of them (possibly even at the same time), but definitely mostly with the brunette... Whom I had by this time realised was definitely the more attractive of them, and wondered how I could ever have thought otherwise. (See other comments about how attraction grows from more than superficial qualities.)
If all goes well, our son will graduate from "lukio" (~"high school") this year.
So:
1) Go to bars for dinner and beer after work.
2) Don't be so immediately judgemental.
3) Remember to bring a paperback novel.
[Edit: Ttpo.]
So...people like you? you sound really judgemental man.
Since you have no friends(so nothing to hold you where you are, right?), and apparently a good source of income, I'd advise you to go remote, travel, try digital nomadism, go to meetups, meet other travelers, maybe try coworking spaces? hacker houses/airbnbs with people from lots of different places?
1. Get a hobby, travel, volunteer, all that crap: No. That will not solve the inherent issue and as a result you'll still be lonely and unsatisfied.
2. Therapy: lol. Just no.
3. Religion, Pet, Marriage: Will make you more miserable. Now, not only you are lonely, but also have obligations (taking your dog pop).
Here is what you wrote:
> my neighbors from above, probably college students, are having a party of their lifetime, laughing, kicking and screaming
-> Fair enough.
> I was broke, renting a big flat with a bunch of roommates, but young, healthy, and full of enthusiasm (and booze).
-> That's nostalgia for a previous era. Nothing suggests you'll like that lifestyle now.
> I thought my life would only get better. And I made a good career, but in the process, steadily drifted off into isolation.
-> An important part that everyone here is missing. Let's tag this as "Exhibit 1".
> they're all full of lonely developers and other socially awkward people - short guys looking for girlfriends, unattractive/aging women looking for husbands, etc.
-> Everyone here is blaming (and judging you for judging others). Attractiveness is relative, blahblabla. Nope. Old tech people are both unattractive and boring, that's for both sexes (or all sexes). That's reality. You can sugarcoat it in your brain, but that doesn't create "boobs" or make a man stylish.
> All the "normal" people I knew in the past are now changing diapers and working to pay off their mortgages, which I guess is a kind of consolation.
-> Marriage is basically that. A process to make you forget, just like religion. It doesn't give you a meaning, it just makes you busy so you don't think about it.
> Doing things by myself is boring and depressing, and getting into a group of "normal" friends, of both genders, to hang out and laugh with, seems like an impossible goal.
-> Exhibit "2".
> In case someone has any advice beyond finding a hobby, going to therapy, approaching random strangers, it would be greatly appreciated.
-> You have no interests in any hobby (otherwise you'll be doing it) and please don't creep strangers.
> On the other hand, I feel that finding a non-coding job would be ultimately the best way to find new social groups, and get out of the apathy
-> No.
==
Okay. Take Exhibit 1: You had an idea, growing up, of where you wanted to be in the future. You thought that by building a good paying career, you'll have the lifestyle you "deserve". You succeeded in part I (career) and now are surprised that life is not as exciting and rewarding as it should be. You are in "deception" mode. It's like paying for a very expensive car to only find out that it doesn't work.
Take Exhibit 2: You are boring. You don't even like yourself (spending time alone). Of course, people are not going to like you.
So how do you fix this. First one, you should accept your situation. You are deceived but nobody promised you the moon if you did build a career. That was your own thinking. You need to get over it and realize that the time has gone and you should move on.
Second, you should become interesting yourself. Surprise: You might be interesting already without you recognizing it. Do you have an inherent interest in finance, politics, geography, history, music? You can strike a conversation about these topics for 2-3 hours and still talk about nothing.
Here is the last bit: The place, time and circumstance doesn't matter. You only need one friend with whom you share an interest in one of these topics. You share a beer/coffee once or twice a week. You discuss the latest rate hike, stock bubble or why Hitler lost the war. Now, suddenly, reading a book is interesting because you are building ideas for your next talk/discussion with this hypothetical friend. Bonus point if this friend challenges your ideas, do some research himself or is hard to convince in an intellectually stimulating way. Topics like finance are good because there is always something "new" happening in the market. So the discussion carries on.
There is nothing magical about life. Neither there is an end goal by itself. Your brain is just torturing you. You can "run away" by traveling to far away lands to forget about your deception, cold weather and problems. Or you can have have a beer a couple times a week. Second choice seems easier to me and you'll still have your finances in order. You can always travel later, but then you'll make a more informed choice and avoid another "deception".
My advice: get over yourself, you're your own worst enemy.
You might not love the people you meet at those meetups, for instance, but if you auto-reject everyone you meet you'll never wind up meeting people via those second or third tier connections. Nothing is saying you have to want to be best friends or date those people you decry, but you're cutting yourself off from potential groups of people that you could be introduced to. You're your own worst enemy here.
Getting a dog or traveling, as others here have said, probably won't fix it - a dog can't help you better yourself, and traveling might hide the issue but you'll still be the same ineffective blocked off "you" wherever you go. Work on yourself more.