HACKER Q&A
📣 yummypaint

Where is the open source smart TV firmware?


These things have been on the market for many years yet there doesn't seem to be any open firmware. I want to use content recognition capability to auto-mute commercials. I want to disable all telemetry so I can trust my own device. How would the difficulty of developing such a thing compare with projects like dd-wrt?


  👤 wolrah Accepted Answer ✓
There really isn't anything because there isn't much reason to do it beyond "because I can".

The SoCs used in smart TVs are mostly older ARM and MIPS chips with just enough power for what they need to do so it's not like a game console where it's an interesting development target.

Beyond that, by their nature TVs have inputs, so plugging in your own device that runs whatever you want is trivial, so there's no real need to get something running on that device specifically when you can shove a stick in a HDMI socket and make it do whatever.

If the telemetry and whatever are your main concern you can just not connect the TV to the internet in the first place.


👤 3guk
Based on the SammyGo project - https://www.samygo.tv/ - I'd say that it's relatively difficult, I think in most cases people are inclined purely to attach a HTPC or something similar to the TV and then just use the TV as a dumb monitor.

I think we are still a few years out from having to worry about TVs that need a constant internet connection - I connect mine to the internet whenever there's a firmware update that interests me, but for the most part I leave mine disconnected from any sort of internet.


👤 grae_QED
Not really open source, but I feel like http://zisworks.com is an honorable mention. He does custom FPGA's for high resolution monitors. It isn't as impressive today, but he's built boards that are capable of doing 4k @ 120hz. What I thought was particularly cool was 540p @ 480hz. Its wild! I've never seen something so smooth! Its like I experienced true level [1].

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1zBtJhgwBI


👤 na85
When tinkering with black box hardware you run the risk of bricking it.

I'd be a little upset if I bricked my router. If I owned a 5000$ TV and bricked that I'd be extremely, extremely upset.

I'm sure that the price point discourages tinkering.


👤 sodality2
There is open source TV software, keep in mind- Android TV boxes, Linux PC sticks, Raspberry Pi running Kodi, etc.

👤 Someone
They make it about as hard as legally allowed to get the source code, and I don’t know what exactly you get when you ask them for the software, but Philips has open source firmware for at least some of its televisions.

For an example, https://www.p4c.philips.com/files/4/40pfk6300_12/40pfk6300_1... says

This television contains open source software. TP Vision Europe B.V. hereby offers to deliver, upon request, a copy of the complete corresponding source code for the copyrighted open source software packages used in this product for which such offer is requested by the respective licences.

This offer is valid up to three years after product purchase to anyone in receipt of this information.

To obtain the source code, please write in English to . . .

  Intellectual Property Dept. TP Vision Europe B.V. Prins

  Bernhardplein 200 1097 JB Amsterdam

  The Netherlands

That television uses FFMpeg, SQLite, zlib, and other libraries.


👤 em3rgent0rdr
Kodi. And you can run a mythtv or tvheadend or nextpvr server to record shows from a tuner and automatically detect and skip commercials.

👤 unraveller
>I want to use content recognition capability to auto-mute commercials.

I looked into this on old 2014 android TVs (was actually modified tablet OS). You could install apps fine but you'd need even deeper level tools to reverse engineer the custom TV APP API to hook into the feed + channel metadata. I figured if you could count how high the CC syllables per minute that would be a good proxy for ads or indian soap opera then mute the sound and freeze frame.

I remember holding out for a dual HDMI input output Arm device that never materialised. Nowadays latest Android TV would probably have the hardware Tuner API open to any apps unless they are being stubborn and anti-user.


👤 _benj
Something that I came across recently was commercial or hospitality TVs. They are made for waiting rooms or to display the menu at a restaurant.

These are the best I could find for a modern TV (IPS panel, proper size) but still pretty dumb as far as it goes. Some of them have management systems so user can display static images or youtube videos, but that's pretty much it.

perhaps this could be a direction to explore regarding dumb tv


👤 xg15
From the comments here: So that's all it takes to keep the open-source community away from your proprietary hardware? Make it boring?

👤 floatingatoll
My smart TV uses a proprietary SOC that no one has reverse engineered. It’s a few years old and someone recently managed to get into a 2017 model from that line. It’s the same problem that hinders open source firmware for cell phones: proprietary chips and no community desire/funding for reverse engineers.

👤 rahimnathwani
Maybe you can patch the existing firmware, rather than starting from scratch: https://wiki.samygo.tv/index.php?title=SamyGO_Firmware_Patch...

I'm not sure whether sources are available.


👤 DarthNebo
A better solution would be to tap into an input like HDMI using RPi or Nvidia SBCs & existing software like OpenELEC or OSMC. You can lockdown telemetry with Pi-hole/firewalls or just not allow the TV to hop onto WiFi since your input source would be the one needing network access.

👤 t-3
TV tuner cards have been available forever. I have no idea how much DRM and legal encumbrance there is to actually using one, but it is possible.

👤 John_Luck
I would bet DRM is the main reason

👤 2Gkashmiri
Something like kdebigscreen ?

👤 streamofdigits
The clarion call applies to any and all "smart" consumer devices, whether cars, TV's, watches, doorbells or anything else in the so-called internet of things

You can't blame any dumb device manufacturer who wants to upgrade into being a surveillance capitalist as this guarantees the best valuation multiples

You can blame it on us for being idiot consumers and non-existent as citizens. At some point we simply need to pull the plug and get rid of that horror that passes as a business model