What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

To be honest... None.

It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs.

I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to battery life and useful apps I need. I'll pick CSAM Scanning over my Location data being in the hands of Google, sorry.

And as for my laptop, macOS doesn't scan, and the M1 is too impressive and has me spoiled. And I have too many horror stories with both Linux and Windows and can't stand either of them. (Don't tell me switch to Linux - I've tried over a dozen distributions over the last decade. It's just not there yet.)

For those studying MacBook alternatives, I think the most underrated “serious” notebook computer in the world is the Panasonic Letsnote SX/SV.

Matte screen that actually works outdoors, removable long-life battery, unassuming vintage design (“let’s not rob that guy, he can’t even afford a new computer”). I haven’t investigated the Linuxability of this thing yet, but it’s super-light and impressive as a mosh terminal (especially with built-in 4G LTE!). Tough magnesium body, super comfy keyboard that’s easy to swap out if you beat it up. Made in Japan!

I have a fully loaded MacBook Pro, and couldn’t imagine doing design work on anything else, but I somehow end up getting lots of work done on the Letsnote. It’s at a point where I don’t think I’ll be excited about the long-awaited new 14-inch MacBook Pro, as I doubt it’ll have a matte screen and a durable exterior (and, I much prefer to look like a sad worker stuck with a dorky computer from 2006, than a moneyed tech guy).

Desktop - Ubuntu 20.04. Everything works and my requirements are quite advanced - bunch of games on Steam, pro level audio production studio just to mention a few things.

Laptop - Dell Precision 7750, Xeon CPU, 64 GB RAM, bought with Ubuntu pre-installed. Beast of a laptop, superior thermals, wipes the floor with a mac.

Phone - Google Pixel. I consider that a lesser evil choice to Apple's walled garden. It's rooted, I don't see any ads, etc.

Tablet - Google Pixel Slate. High end tablet with 16 GB RAM running Chrome OS which supports native linux apps for a while now.

These were all more or less state of the art devices at the time of buying, I have absolutely no need whatsoever to to even think about Apple or Microsoft.

I don’t care anymore. Actually I do, but I’m exhausted.

However if I buy a new laptop, with or without CSAM, it won’t be a Mac. I would wish for a Framework kinda thing here (with local service), but since that’s not gonna happen - ASUS it would be most probably, with ElementaryOS on it (or some distro like that - non ugly and kinda simple looking).

It feels like WhatsApp —> Signal brouhaha all over again. After trying to get my contacts on Signal for 7-8 months and having deleted WhatsApp I’m back to it after my own struggles with Signal.

So no, not again. My next phone (if my iPhone 7 dies on me) will be an iPhone 12 Mini (or a 13 variant that’s around same size and cost) probably. Because that’s the only new phone that still bloody fits in my palm. After that? I’ll see.

This seems like an over-reaction. I'm highly opposed to Apple's CSAM move but they are still much better and transparent than Google, Amazon, and most other services.

Many of these already do something like this but they just don't actively tell you or document it.

Also, and please correct me if I am mistaken, Apple's CSAM is limited to iCloud for Photos. It does not just work against your local photos.

  CSAM Detection enables Apple to accurately 
  identify and report iCloud users who store
  known Child Sexual Abuse Material (CSAM) 
  in their iCloud Photos accounts

It seems like a needless waste of time do do all this as opposed to disabling iCloud for Photos...

Source: https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni...

Desktop: Arch Linux

Phone: Pinephone

At the end of this article: https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7e77y/the-dollar149-smartph...

"But even without those changes, this device could be enough to kickstart a Linux-driven mobile revolution."

On laptop I moved to Qubes a few years ago, on a ThinkPad X1 carbon which is an amazing machine. I keep a c2014 MacBook around for miscellaneous things (e.g. syncing Spotify local songs to my phone over local WiFi, which I have not figured out how to do in the Linux client).

For phone I’m very interested in /e/os and the one phone you can get new with it preinstalled, the Teracube 2 (wired has a Teracube review of the very similar previous model).

I am looking at photoprism running on a home server (intel nuc) synced via PhotoSync (can sync photos via sftp). It actually looks really cool and uses tensorflow to do some sort of AI photo sorting locally.

By the way, while there’s a learning curve to this stuff, it feels very empowering and educational once you’ve put in the work. It feels like the future. Compute and storage is cheap. I think hosting things on your own server is the inevitable future. Once you’re set up it just hums along. This stuff will eventually be sold in appliance form (see Helm email server for the model).

Phone: Google Pixel 5 plus CalyxOS at the moment. Probably will switch to pure LineageOS due to call recording support. The bootloader is locked so the phone is secure and does not call home. Highly recommend. Some apps and in-app purchases doesn't work well on microG, also there are some issues with paid apps. And Android UX sucks but it's a reasonable price to pay for privacy. In fact I've been suprised - with this phone I don't feel as bad as I expected.

I really hope that Pixel 6 will have better camera and bigger screen and also would be supported by Lineage.

PC: I have an AMD desktop with Gentoo and going to buy Purism laptop later.

Watch: I don't use them. Actually was going to buy next Apple Watch but...

Apple Pay: no good replacement, though contactless cards aren't THAT bad.

Apple Carplay: phone+organic maps.

Main reason I'm using apple devices is for their quick security updates. I don't trust Samsung phone because they even run ads on $1500 phone. I am thinking to go with Pixel phone.

I'll buy a Fairphone with pretty high probability next time. No more iPhones. On desktop I was always a Windows user, but recently switched to PopOS.

I try to use open source software where possible and after the endless stream of depressing news about working conditions and environmental impact of our juicy tech I'm ready to pay more for less to get (relatively) fair and open hardware too.

Edit: Considering Linux phones like Pinephone or Librem too, but they seem not ready to me yet and they emphasise much more on technical freedom and less on fair production.

I’ve been working on my pinephone. But it’s really underpowered imo.

I’m considering a Librem 5. Which has more cpu power and battery.

The appeal to me is really getting off any major tech platform. Further, you can disconnect the components via switches — iE unplug the microphone. That being said, I can’t even use Signal on them without some major configurations.

https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13728

I have also considered the “freedom phone”. But my understand is it’s just Graphene + process isolation on a slightly modified hardware. Until it’s heavily vetted I wouldn’t use it though.

And ugh yeah, that’s about it.

It should be obvious that anyone who says “I’m concerned about privacy, so I’m going to switch to using Google products!” is not a serious person.

If you’re actually going to switch to using open source hardware phones and whatnot, then good luck I guess. I can see where more progress in that area would lead to general improvements, so it’s not entirely tilting at windmills.

I’m testing how much I can move from services before switching devices and don’t have everything mapped out just yet.

- cloud backups: testing iMazing Wi-Fi daily backups to NAS. Tested a clean restore to an iPad that was perfect. The daily backups aren’t running consistently yet but likely has to do with power save settings.

- Photos: syncing with Synology Photos. Backup seems fine (40k of 65k pictures so far). The app leaves a lot to be desired vs Apple Photos.

Will test Calyx / Graphene on a Pixel at some point but not likely to pass the wife test.

I'm thinking of getting one of these: https://frame.work/

Any people here with experience with one?

I've been down this road long before CSAM, the gist is:

Use FOSS when possible, minimize all other internet-connected devices when FOSS is not available.

I actually still plan to continue using iPhone as a necessary evil until PinePhone, Librem, or similar are production ready (as my use cases demand). But I don't trust the device, my world doesn't revolve around the device, and that's kind of the only way to live with having devices running proprietary, untrustworthy code.

For those who want to keep using their Apple devices, I highly recommend Nextcloud as an iCloud Photos alternative. I've been running an instance of it on a little Pine64 for quite some time now without any issues.

Though I'll still the say the crux of the issue is that the majority of users _won't_ have iCloud Photos disabled, and thus have their privacy violated.

None. I am hoping that someone attacks me with a few dozen grayscale perceptual hash collisions so I can save them on my device, to iCloud, and hope it slips by Apple's checkers. And NCMEC's checkers, etc. Because I too want to retire as a king, and losing a few friends who can't really wrap their heads around a gray image attack ... well, no biggy, I'm kind of a loner to begin with.

XZ1 Compact with microG. I still have an iPad, though I see myself in the future upgrading to a the equivalents of the iPhone 12 mini and a Samsung Tab S7. (I prefer small phones, and there's no Android ones now)

Don't put your data in places where you can't export data (Apple Notes for instance), or ideally places that aren't cross-platform.

This allows me the freedom to move between OSes, and most importantly, have more choice in my products. Getting stuck in an ecosystem is exactly what Apple and Samsung want, and it's very anti-consumer in the end.

I've been using Pop!_OS on a Lenovo Thinkpad T480 for a year now, coming from a Macbook Air, and I couldn't be happier.

The thinkpad cost me less than half the price of a Macbook, and I was able to change its keyboard (for a QWERTY one) and add 8 GB of RAM in less than an hour (and for less than $100).

Pop!_OS is amazing. It feels close enough to MacOS that the adaptation period was almost non existent, and it's been running flawlessly for more than a year now.

1. I just setup dual booting on my 16" Macbook Pro!

Didn't think it was possible because of T2 but then found the "T2 Linux Community" here: https://t2linux.org/

They have a step by step guide for Ubuntu and a helpful Discord group to walk me through.

I dug into Purism Librem and System76 Laptops. Dual booting Ubuntu buys me some time.

2. I also disabled iCloud and started NextCloud on a third party host. It's pretty clunky, still getting that setup. In the open source world it seems like there's less opportunities to pay for quality. Take my money!!

Pinebook and pinephone, I hope. Debian and whatever pinephone is using. It's only the photos which are a bit annoying. But with a bit of js and my own server I'm fairly sure I can transition over to something fairly easily. I'll keep my icloud email address I think.

Is the CSAM an issue for macOS? That would be my only concern since I do not own an iPhone.

Honestly, as much as I go to extreme lengths to limit invasions of my privacy, short of going full Stallman, it would take a lot for me to chuck my M1 MacBook Air. I know people say they have a non-Apple laptop that is as good, but that has not been my experience. Every PC laptop I have owned has ended up being a pile of crap for one reason or another. Usually the hardware is flimsy, plastic gets warped and scratched, it gets slower over time, etc. I have never had such experiences with the Macbooks I have owned other than my keyboard giving out on my 2015 MBP a few months ago. This is coming from a former hardcore Linux user who used to look down on people with Macs.

(that said, I would love recommendations on comparable laptops for the day that may come where I ditch Apple)

I really hope that I can prevent or block CSAM on my current Macbook if it's being adopted on macOS.

I switched from my 2015 MBP to a System76 Darter Pro, and I've been very happy with it. (The MBP was dying, and the new MBPs had the execrable touchbar, and the broken keyboard.)

There are no good iPhone alternatives. I now don't trust either Google or Apple on privacy, for different reasons. As a practical matter, Apple is probably better for me, as I find it very unlikely that governments forcing Apple to do their bidding are going to be interested in me, personally.

I am relying on the Apple cloud, and I hate it. I have mp3 files for all my music, and I will soon stop relying on Apple for music completely. I take photos on my phone, and they go to the cloud. I think I'm stuck there, but again, I do have my own copies (via download to my wife's Mac). Ideally, I could get photos from my phone to my Linux laptop directly, but I don't know of a good way to do that.

Hardware-wise I've been in the Pixel, ThinkPad camp for a while.

There are decent custom ROMs for Pixel already mentioned, and the ThinkPad line even ships with full Linux support now so not too bad at all there.

As for cloud services, I'm still stuck on Google. I've been putting off switching because it's a lot of work.

I ditched my last Apple products in 2013 due to lack of control. I daily drive Linux (Fedora 34) on desktop and Android on my phone (Pixel 4). I use Plex and a home server to control my media.

I've been lifelong Apple user (webdev, sysadmin, power user) up until 2018. I switched to dual-boot Fedora/Xfce and Win10 on a Lenovo X1C 6th Gen. It took several months to get used to, but I did not look back even once. The user experience is not as polished, but it gets the job done. In hindsight I was irrationally concerned about features or apps which I thought I would miss.

One thing I'd really like is to find a semi-dumbphone I can use Signal on and just get rid of having a smartphone with me. I'm not sure if I'm going to drop Apple completely and this morning I was wondering how far I could get with an Apple Watch and something like the Nokia 8110.

If anyone has suggestions for a small, minimal phone I can still run Signal on I'd love to hear it.

How are you finding Manjaro for dev work? I set up Ubuntu 18 on a desktop build last year, it's decent but it's still finicky to be my daily driver, so I still use my MBP for work.

I think for a phone I may just drop back to a Nokia 3210 and buy a camera for family pictures. Whatsapp will be a loss, but hey, maybe it'll be nice to not have my phone as a distraction during the day.

I think you need an "Ask HN" in the title.

I've been using CalyxOS on a Pixel 4a 5G for like 4 months now and love it. Came from another stock Android phone though, not iOS. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask!

I used to be a massive Apple fan, all hardware in our house was Apple. About 3 years ago we started switching away, and now only have an iPad Pro left.

desktop: custom PC running Ubuntu MATE 20

laptop: Thinkpad running Ubuntu MATE 20

Phone: Android Moto E

Streaming Device: Roku 3

Car: Android Auto

watch: no watch

tablet: Amazon Fire

I find it interesting that the Moto E is the cheapest smartphone you can get in America. Comcast gave it to me free with my plan. Yet it's totally fine, meets all of my needs no problem. Only thing I did was add an SD card for more storage. Similarly with the Amazon Fire tablet, it was only $75 and easily meets all of my needs. Ignoring the privacy implications of Amazon/Google ran Android devices, Android OS is impressive.

- Laptop - https://starlabs.systems/pages/starbook + coreboot + NixOs

- Phone - Pixel 4a + CalyxOs

- Watch - https://www.withings.com/pl/en/steel-hr

I changed my phone to a Fairphone 3+ running LineageOS. I'm liking it so far. I think it's as ethical & private as I can get while still have a smartphone right now.

I also changed my photos to backup to Nextcloud, which I'm self-hosting.

I wrote about switching from Google Photos to Nextcloud here: https://blog.leavemealone.app/moving-from-google-photos-to-n...

I'm questioning whether I even need a phone at all so I'm considering making the switch to... a landline. I think I can give it a try for a month and see how it goes.

Linux laptop or desktop: https://linuxpreloaded.com/ or customize a desktop yourself

You can checkout compatibility of hardware components @ https://linux-hardware.org/

It's of course possible to keep your Macbook, do the environment some good (less waste) and run linux on your mac: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux

Phone: a phone that supports LineageOS ( https://download.lineageos.org/ ) or GrapheneOS ( https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support ). Neither are perfect:

- LineageOS still has some google config but at least it doesn't have Google Services (use microG for that https://lineage.microg.org/ )

- GrapheneOS only runs on Google Pixel devices so you will be putting money into Google's hands

been thinking about the same the last week+, and for phone I can't help but want to go back to a Nokia feature phone. Email has been off my phone for a year and a half, no notifications. Trying to quit WhatsApp as well so not having it is a feature. The models available now aren't quite there yet but I am hopeful. Really, my ideal would be:

  - Good/great camera, 8+ MP; Front facing optional. Dedicated shutter button/quick access from sleep
  - GPS and HERE maps
  - Simple, native "apps" - Phone, Alarm, Calendar, Contacts, threaded SMS/MMS, weather, podcasts, flashlight. Email optional
  - High quality screen (3", OLED, high PPI)
  - 4G connectivity, 5G optional
  - Tethering/Hotspot capability
  - USB-C
  - Candybar form factor with number pad would work, but would prefer an E71/72 reboot

Thats basically it. Given how inexpensive something like the just released 6310 is (~50 EUR), it would be nice to have a "high end" feature phone around the 250 EUR/$300 price point. Long battery a nice side benefit as well.

Not yet switching but until last week I wanted to buy the next Watch (none yet), next iphone (now at X) and next ARM MacBook Pro. I decided to wait another year and first move all cloud stuff to some private hardware.

Great discussion. I live in Apple's ecosystem, and this is even more compelling with our new Honda Pilot basically being an extension of our iPhones. I have been on three road trips in the last 8 weeks, and this feature was so nice!

I am still considering stepping back, switching to a Pixel 5 from the CalyxOS organization, rely on my wife's iPhone while on road trips, start using my GPU Linux laptop from System 76 as my main driver, and fall back on using ProtonMail with my email domain.

I did recently remove virtually everything from my iPhone except Freedom, text/email, Chess, Go, Music, podcast, and Safari. I think my phone should just be a phone, more or less.

I am not so disappointed with Apple's CSAM functionality as I am about their longer term trend. They are starting with something that has wide support, but who knows what is next.

I'm 10 years early to this party but:

Desktop: Debian + i3wm is where I landed and stayed...

If anything were to change in future it would be Debian, but I'd be taking my setup with me (few dot files), which is a nice capability to have.

This is easier if you are a developer (not an iOS developer ofc), because most work on the CLI is just so much easier on Linux. I tried The BSDs at first, various Linux distros, and ultimately settled on Debian after using Ubuntu for a while. This is an opinionated area, and no distro is perfect, but I settled on Debian due to it's ubiquity as a base for other distros and therefore familiarity and wealth of support and knowledge, but also because it's the less opinionated base you can add whatever you want to... I also like their focus on openness.

My recommendation to anyone who _likes_, (or liked) Apple desktop and UI: don't try to replace it or replicate it in Linux, you will be upset. Learn to love something else: control, and the permanence and stability it brings to your life. If you want a ready made full desktop environment they exist, KDE and GNOME, but in a way they are just another Apple, dictating and evolving how you do things with each update - It's probably easier when you first switch, but you may eventually find yourself moving towards something simpler and less shiny... less is more, they are just window decorations at the end of the day, most of it is bloat.

If you do any kind of media, video, audio, raster, vector work... I wont lie and pretend this is a comparable alternative, you will need probably need either WINE or Windows, unless you know exactly what you need and know of a well supported program for Linux, e.g blender is supposed to be a pretty good contender for the proprietary 3D packages these days. While I like Linux, I agree Inkscape and Gimp are trash compared to Photoshop... i don't even like adobe products but I've used both, and the former are an exercise in pain endurance - they are last resorts, don't expect them to replace.

I feel like I'm totally out of the loop on this. My understanding is that Apple scans for CSAM (as it legally is required to) when it uploads files to it's cloud storage. What's the problem and who exactly are you expecting to provide cloud storage and not do this?

GrapheneOS. Been using it since half a year and it exceeded my expectations by far. Maybe I was too pessimistic using an Android phone without Google play services but thanks to fdroid there are plenty of open alternatives for pretty much every app needed ... (At least in my case)

Computer - Thinkpads with Linux or BSD flavours - enough to run web apps, and a capable SSH client.

Phone - Nokia 225 (dumbphone) - enough to call 911 or my partner/mother/pizza shop.

I'm keeping my iPhone SE, but it's essentially going to stay in one or two rooms at home, only used for things that need a mobile device.

The key is adjusting your expectations. I don't get apps at easy reach anymore, but I don't need them and never should have had them in the first place. My personality is far too prone to addiction, and physical control is easier than self control. That it's going to have a positive impact on my privacy/security/safety is just a nice plus.

I would be concerned about what people think when I tell them that I'm going to extremes to avoid having my devices detect and report CSAM, even if I swear it's purely for privacy reasons.

I am not switching.

I already had a deep mistrust for "cloud" services irrespective of who the provider is. My position on "cloud services" meant I have never used any Apple cloud services.

I see no reason to switch away from what is otherwise a very high quality platform. This is perhaps especially the case on the phone side where the overall security and privacy in general is better than Android.

I used MacOS exclusively for 8 months before making my mind up. The initial plan was to use it for at least one year but after 8 months I was really fed up and went back to GNU/Linux. I expected it to be better but in the end I found it was not, at least not for me. Although Apple invests a lot of money and effort in the MacOS user interface development I found it way too restrictive compared to any DE or window manager I used in past on GNU/Linux. I am not Gnome nor KDE user but would pick any of these two over MacOS interface without second thoughts. Homebrew is useful and commendable but far worse than any of the major package managers on GNU/Linux. Macvim was fine, but it did not have features I relied on in Gvim. I never used Safari because compared to Firefox the interface was clunky. I do not know about current Safari status but back then it didn't have extensions. I wanted to switch many times over the 8 months and was relieved when I did. To me, personally, Apple products are overrated. MacOS? No. But thanks.

Desktop/Laptop: Already using Archlinux for many years

Phone: Pixel 4a (only regular sized smartphone available not from Apple)

Carplay? Never used.

Apply Pay? Never used.

Maps: Garmin, which works autonomous minus the GPS. Or OSMAND or OrganicMaps.

The problem with Pixel is, it is from Google therefore you don't have GNU/Linux but Google/Android. Which comes with a lot drawbacks, for example you need to switch on Miracast support in the bootloader.

I'm waiting for Macbook 16" announce and then I'll decide whether to move to Apple ecosystem or to stay at PC and migrate to android.

My PC future plans would be:

Smartphone: Google Pixel, optionally with AOSP, but I'm not sure.

Laptop: most powerful Dell Precision with Fedora Linux. It should have Nvidia GPU. I'll install Windows in KVM and with GPU passthrough I'll be able to play some games.

Desktop: I am currently on Windows 10. I have a lot of experience with Windows since Win 95, and more or less sure I can keep their invasive features in check via registry editing tools and also double check suspicious addresses on home router. Otherwise Windows is quite open OS without strict binaries signing rules.

I develop on PHP, Python, Kotlin and Go natively, using WSL for things like Ansible.

Phone: any recent Android with medium privacy settings on Google services. I allow location tags on Photos and location history on Maps, because it is quite useful. I tried to regulary change GAID, but untargeted ads became really awful, so I am keeping it for now.

Laptop: I don't always use it, but when I do - it is Lenovo X1 Carbon with Windows 10.

Fitness bracelet: cheap monochrome Xiaomi (v3, I think). I am interested in step count and sleep monitoring, it is good enough for me.

Linux has progressed a lot, but for productivity apps, it doesn’t come close to macOS.

What I want to see is a user-friendly productivity app suite as good as macOS for linux:

- Calendar - Mail - Preview

These apps need feature parity with the macOS, need to “just work” with sane defaults and need to be well thought out with an equivalent UX.

Don’t get me wrong, I ran Manjaro and Arch for a long time and I would love to go back to them as my daily workhorse, but the app support isnt nearly as good.

Even apps like Spotify bring my linux T480 thinkpad with 32GB ram to its knees because Spotify doesnt give a shit about Linux. So as a result I have to find shitty second class apps that dont have full features, are buggy or dont work. Then I end up spending more time trying to get my computer to run apps properly than actually use it for its intended purpose.

Surprised Elementary OS 6 wasn’t first mentioned for desktop

I don't know enough yet whether to care about the CSAM issue, but I recently switched away from apple for a more ergonomic-but-portable setup where I can use a computer without wearing eyeglasses and save my neck from looking down without dealing with secondary keyboards, second monitors, etc.

This led to finding a combination of:

- An intel tablet - specifically HP makes one called the Elite X2 G4 (now G8) which has a 3k2k 13" display. Running Ubuntu which isn't perfect but tolerable - I keep a list of workflows replacements (primarily from mac to linux) here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/148zTJUwfVv9xfDcpSoH3...

- A 'tiny tower stand', which allows one to prop the tablet close to the face. Other stands (e.g. roost) don't enable this. It's been sold out this year but hoping they come back.

- A nutype f1 keyboard (wired usb-c or wireless), and an apple trackpad (wired lightning or wireless). The combination still fits within the footprint of the tablet, eventually want to make a case for it for easy carry.

Again the motivation is finding something more ergonomic and portable enough to use at another desk. Do I recommend it? Depends on your intentions and time available. Mine are just around exploring ergonomics.

Does /e/ foundation ship stuff to US yet? Last time I checked they didn't. I see this now:

https://esolutions.shop/shop/e-os-teracube-2e/

Anyone used this thing?

With my phone I won’t accept any more updates, at least the ones I can resist, and I’ll switch to Android when there’s no other option. CSAM is a line crossed too far and I feel like Apple is telling me I’m just not holding it right again, and that makes me unhappy.

It’s difficult to move away from Apple if you want to keep all your projects/hobbies inside one computer. I can (barely) make Windows do all the things I need, but that’s not an improvement in any way. (Fwiw, aside from software dev I’m also a heavy user of audio software and AU/vst plugins. Thousands I spent on software doesn’t translate to Linux).

And as I was typing this, my iPhone popped up a warning that the websites mandated by my kid’s school have all been compromised and offered assistance to update the passwords on there. Good job, Apple (and we’ll see how image scanning saga unfolds… I might just switch to OneDrive for photos, but it’s a question if it’s any better in that regard)

I don’t know man. I feel like I’ve been spoiled by apple ecosystem by having watch, airpods, mac, and iphone.

Thinking about moving everything seems to be so much work on top of my daily job and side projects.

Unhappy with apple’s decision, but also feel like I’m stuck atm

I've never used Apple stuff, but my setup is this:

* Dell XPS 13 running Manjaro/GNOME3. When this XPS dies, I will use the Framework laptop instead.

* Fairphone 3 running /e/OS (degoogled android) with Aurora Store and Aurora Droid.

* Withings Scanwatch, which doesn't have much in the way of regular smartwatch functionality but does monitor my heart rate, provide ECGs and checks my blood oxygen saturation as well as pulse, steps etc.

* Contactless payments just through my bank card. Sometimes I try to remember cash is probably the safest and most ethical choice for payments, but I'm not good at this.

Phone: Mobile router with rj11 jack, hotspot, and SMS web interface.

Computer: RasPi 4 8GB + 7” screen with Ubuntu Mate in a SmartiPi case.

Car: put the computer onto the visor and flip the display, hook up accessories.

I’m still with iPhone but pretty close to that setup. Mainly I am thinking about emergencies where I want my SIM in my phone when I leave my car. A second SIM that supports WiFi calling is likely the final step, giving the new # to the iPhone and using WiFi only when possible, at home or in car.

Sounds complicated, no doubt. Tethering CarPuter to iPhone is a much easier approach. I’m a VanLifer.

I’ve bought a Google Pixel 4a today to do some testing with Graphene OS.

I already have my data in Nextcloud so that makes the switch easier but some things like WhatsApp are going to be harder and for that it appears the Matrix bridge is the thing.

What ever path I go down my partner is going to follow so it has to just work and take great photos. If the Pixel 4a as a test device works I’m excited about the Pixel 6 Pro.

On the desktop, just got the new Mac Mini and not looking to jump yet but Linux is a decent desktop OS. All I need is Firefox, a Terminal and Jetbrains to get the job done.

I always saw Apple stuff as toys, so I own several ipads and boughta Mini 12 iphone because I was impressed with the size. For computing, I use real computers running Windows 10 Pro or Linux (mostly Ubuntu) and I'm ready to leave Windows behind as soon as work no longer requires me to keep it.

Since that CSAM is not coming to Europe any time soon I guess I can ride that out and keep the iphones/ipads and slowly have a look around if there's an acceptable, dual sim phone that compares to the 12 Mini. Maybe my next phone will be a foldable...

I recently bought a Thinkpad T460p with 32GB RAM and run Debian on it. I use an iPhone because that seems to be the only kind of phone where I can expect security patches for more than two years.

Hard truth is Apple has really built its ecosystem brick by brick and is constantly getting stronger. And other companies don't even seem like they have their eyes on the game wrt ecosystem. They do some parts better than Apple but no one seems to be focussing on the big picture. Once someone is fully in the ecosystem (phone, iPad, Mac, watch, Apple TV and some iCloud services) it's really hard to find another ecosystem that works as well.. and that's not a good thing for the industry in general

Happily Linuxing on a Dell Precision 5550

Very surprisingly decent touchpad for a PC, lighter than my last MBP, same usbc/thunderbolt 3 ports & charger I've now become familiar with and have peripherals for littered around the house (plus — and this may seem dumb ̄— but something so small as the fold-out HDMI/USBA dongle included in the box just drives home that little bit further how actively user-hostile Apple are).

I'm looking for an alternative Android phone mostly because I'm annoyed by the lack of control over the computer I use the most. Any suggestions?

On desktop, Dell's "developer edition" (DE) XPS 13" is great, Linux ships by default, and it should shortly come with an OLED option (https://www.tomsguide.com/reviews/dell-xps-13-oled-review).

On the phone, the iPhone seems more secure and privacy conscious overall.

For mobile I'm using Sailfish OS on a Sony Xperia XA2 Plus. Both laptops are running Linux Mint 20.2. No issues with any of these.

I have retained an off-line MacOS on my Mac Mini for music production because, although Reaper runs well on Linux, I can't install all the licensed plugins I use. The alternative was Windows, but in my experience it is still below par for performance and reliability.

Also see these 2 previous discussions from the past week:

Phone-alternatives: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28164208 Laptop-alternatives: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28216287

My understanding is Apple is not scanning photos on the device, but scanning photos uploaded to their servers: i.e. iCloud. I also understand this is the norm for most (all?) cloud-hosted file and photo storage platforms. I can opt-out having my photos uploaded to iCloud (which I do, but not for security concerns).

Am I misunderstanding anything?

I've got a Pixel and a Dell XPS 13 Dev Edition. I really only use Signal, so I don't miss iMessage/FaceTime. I don't know if I'd say it's perfect, but everything seems to "just work" for the most part. I definitely have less issues with my setup than with my fiancés MacBook Air.

Linux is already, in my view, by far the best operating system! Complete freedom to do what you want, with high quality software.

So I continue to enjoy various wonderful Linux flavors!

I hope my iPhone deprecates faster than usual so that I can soon ditch it for a de-googled phone! (Or possibly a Linux/Pinephone, once batteries get good enough).

I've never had a MacBook but I feel the LG Gram line of notebooks is top-notch. I have a 17" version and it's light, fast, and has a long battery life. It has a full keyboard and is easily upgradeable. I run Arch Linux with GNOME desktop. All the hardware works on Linux except the fingerprint reader .

To be honest, I don't care that much. Google, Facebook, Microsoft, they all do the same thing or worse. I started using an iPhone because it had the best tech at the time and it was the most convenient. The privacy stuff is nice to have, but it's not a big deal to me.

I never used any Apple products or services to begin with, so I won't be changing anything. I've always disliked Apple and their locked-down, consumer-hostile, "walled garden" approach, so this is a big nothing-burger for me.

Honestly I'm planning on moving FROM android TO Apple...

I feel like that's still more secure than the other options / effort involved. I still think privacy wise Apple is the better play vs all non custom alternatives.

Is it useful to add my vote to the very many "none" posts already in the thread? I have to admit I was annoyed by the implied assumption that's in the wording of the title, which seems (to me) to imply that a sizable portion of HN is in the process of moving off Apple's products because of the CSAM issue.

I tend to hope that everyone else sees every issue the exact same way that I do, and can word leading questions like the OP did here in the hope of somehow pulling everyone along as though (in this case) switching is the only reasonable choice and the question boils down to which platform to choose, rather than whether switching is a rational decision in itself.

Otherwise all the other posters giving good reasons why not to switch have done a much better job than I have in explaining why not.

As of about a week and a half ago, I moved from a 2020 SE to a Nokia 8110 4G "Bananaphone" (the name totally fits) for my primary cellular device. I still have the SE because I've not found replacements for a few key things yet, but it's almost entirely shut off now. Amusingly, AT&T is shipping me a free Flip IV, because my Nokia isn't listed on the "We know it will work with the 3G networks turned down" device list. The tech support guy was quite amused, as was I, so I'll have a legitimate flip phone here in a day or two as well as the bananaphone.

Perks of the bright yellow "What on earth is that?" - it opens up conversations about why I'm moving off Apple.

The lack of KaiOS Signal is a problem, though I've seen some work towards it - perhaps this will drive more development towards the not-Apple, not-Android ecosystems.

I considered a Pixel with GrapheneOS, but Google's hardware reliability lately has left an awful lot to be desired, and I'm just tired of the smartphone concept anyway.

I've been playing casually with a PineBook Pro for the past year or so, and I'm getting that into duty to replace my MacBook Pro for in-house laptop use. There's a new firmware that makes the trackpad actually good, not the laggy, clunky, borderline usable thing that it shipped with, so that's been nice. I simply don't use that much computing power in the evenings, and the PBP accomplishes most of what I want. Unfortunately, again, it doesn't have things like Signal as "easy to install" options (AArch64 is worse than ARMv7/AArch32), so I should throw some time at that as well.

My office, which has a M1 Mac Mini I've done quite a bit of testing and work on, is going to suffer through going to a small ARM box as well - I'm going to put an ODroid N2+ in there, and see how it works. I'll have to drop back from the LG 5k to a 1440p display, as the ODroid can't drive the 5k, but... eh, whatever. Again, I just don't use the computers for an awful lot. I will lose some functionality with regards to video editing, but I simply don't do much of it, and I do have an x86 Windows/Linux PC in the house I can do that on if I need.

The one thing I've not found a great solution for yet is the iPad. I use it for PDF reading, for web browsing, etc. It's probably safe to use in that style, if I strip accounts off, but... even then, I'd like to get rid of it if I can find an alternative. That's going to be a longer project. I'm very interested in the PineNote announcement, as it would make a great PDF reader in theory, but see "a lot of development to make it work." They don't even promise it will run the display when shipped...

As for paying for things, I've got contactless credit cards that can largely replace Apple Pay for "wave something and go," I just have to separate them from the stack of cards first. Not a big deal.

There's a definite loss of function here, but I'm unwilling to state strongly that I'm opposed to all this, and then continue using Apple products as before.

And I've been looking to get away from the tech ecosystems for a while, so this is just a good kicker for me to do it.

I'll probably keep the 2015 MacBook Pro as a "I do still have some value to an Apple device, Apple having been part of my life for nearly 20 years now," but I'm going to strip stuff off and leave it mostly in archive mode.

How have switchers resolved video calls with extended family? FaceTime seems to be the standard now.

I'd have to convince everyone to create a Google account for Meet or similar free video calls.

Is there anything wrong with the dell xps developer edition? I don’t see it mentioned very often when Linux laptop conversations come up. Lenovo, system76 etc… but rarely the xps.

For anyone else who has experienced the frustration of trying to find a Linux replacement for the iPad, I highly recommend the Microsoft Surface.

I tried a variety of alternative tablets/touchscreen options, until finally I bought a used Surface Pro 3 for ~$100 on eBay and installed PopOS. Over the last year, it's been the best tablet I've ever owned (at least for my needs), including iPads.

There's a whole subreddit dedicated to running Linux on Surfaces, if anyone is interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/SurfaceLinux/

This is my plan:

Laptop: Framework laptop, if they start to sell it in the EU.

Phone: Currently an ASUS one (one of the very few, thats not made in Shenzen), but I'll switch to a Fairphone if it dies.

I have been idly looking around for something in the tablet space for dummies. I am not good at the times I must "wrangle" Linux. It is a personal failing.

ASUS Zenfone 8. One of the very few relatively small Android phones with 5G connectivity, good camera and a flagship CPU (Snapdragon 888) and not way too expensive.

This starts in iOS 15. What if I never upgrade, or wait for others to upgrade, they make outrage and then Apple issues an update that takes the CSAM feature out?

Check out samsung products - they're top of the line and many apple products have a Samsung counterpart that's as good or better?

Pine Phone and Pine Tab, and soon Pine Note. These devices use GNU/Linux and seem to perform well so far.

https://puri.sm/products

Genuine question: why not just use macOS without signing into iCloud?

Personally I use dropbox and my own private mail server

You are however aware of the fact that you could just stop using iCloud or just Photos service and move on?

I'm waiting out to see whether Apple buckles to pressure but if no:

Laptop: Framework with Linux

Phone: Pixel 5 with CalyxOS

Is using an alternative Photos app and using something like NextCloud an alternative?

Ironic, I just switched to the Apple iPhone ecosystem 2 years ago after a decade of using exclusively Android, to rid myself of Google and to get better made apps.

- Phone: There is no phones anymore that interest me from the Android ecosystem and iPhones satiate my desire to upgrade every year from getting updates and not turning to shit from use over time. Plus there isn't much more I'd want other than a TouchID option besides FaceID. After moving my (big) whole family to iPhones, we iMessage and FaceTime a lot. I can't re-teach my mother all over again to use something else.

- Watch: My first and only watch was a year ago. Android ones don't interest me. Looking at the Amazfit GTR 2e and that looks good, but if I had to, I'd probably consider the PineTime watch cause it's cheap and obviously not sucking my information or reliant on an app.

- Laptop: I had a MacBook Pro 15 2017 that I recently traded for a MacBook Air M1 that is working better in every way. I don't use laptops much at all but I like it as an Apple dev environment when needed.

- Desktop: I have a custom built Ryzen+Radeon PC. I recently switched from Windows 10 when rumors about Windows 11 leaked. I currently use Ubuntu 20.04 (GNOME) at home and KDE Neon (Ubuntu 20.04) at work.

Linux Desktop Rant: But let me just say that Linux is a fucking disaster on the desktop still.

GNOME (GTK specifically) doesn't have an icon/thumbnail view mode when selecting files (GTK File Chooser Module) and they have refused to fix this. Every GTK base DE has this issue (GNOME, XFCE, Budgie, Cinnamon, Pantheon, LXDE Switching to a different unique DE like KDE doesn't help much either cause apps BUNDLE GTK in them and force you to use the GTK File Chooser module

The most promising unique and usable distro (elementary OS) for the average user still has 3 major flaws: GTK based, Ubuntu dependent, and buggy releases. Elementary OS 6 still has a LightDM bug that makes it so that if you lock the screen or it goes to sleep, you can't get back into your desktop session unless you force reboot.

The app ecosystem is splintering and some of the new options are just as bad or worse than regular package managers. I despise Canonical's Snap stuff. Everything about Snap sucks to use. Makes apps 3x slower, spams my volumes list with loop devices, has flawed sandbox security, and apps can't respect my OS's theme so everything looks like shit.

I tried this weekend to get Arch (gave up due to complex issues) and Manjaro i3 (I also tried various other Ubuntu distros) setup on my work laptop this week only to have the issues with my installs. Kubuntu doesn't allow me to encrypt my drive at installation. Arch and Manjaro fail to find my NVMe drive UUID at boot via GRUB EFI so it can't even get to the decrypting LUKS which I have to do manually. And now I find out OpenWebStart doesn't even support anything not Ubuntu/Debian even for it's compiling. IDK what else to use for launching JavaWeb applets. I ended up on KDE Neon cause it's KDE and Ubuntu and allowed encrypting my drive at installation, so that works I guess but boy am I not happy with this compromise.

Oh and guess what, KDE Plasma doesn't work well on Wayland. I already had it freeze and lock up on Wayland within just an hour of using it and now I'm running it on Xorg.

It's all so tiring.

> "CSAM backdoor plans" Comparing hashes is not a backdoor.

for phone, I'll buy Sony Xperia 10 ii, and install Sailfish OS.

PC already on Pop!_OS

I feel sorry for anyone who was riding apple stock for their retirement.

- calyxos on pixel5

- pop_os linux on my pc

- idrive for backups/photos

- magic earth / organic maps for maps

- k9 email for gmail

- protonmail

- all backups to idrive

Desktop: Linux Mint

Notebook: ASUS Zenbook S 3300x2200 with Linux Mint

Phone: Sailfish OS

Tablet: none

Streaming: NUC with Linux Mint and Kodi

What if you dont use the camera at all on iphone?

Alternatively, what about just giving up the camera and pictures and getting a stand alone device for that? Not terribly convenient but neither are the other options.

Pen and paper.

Closing my eyes and hope the issue resolves itself

i switched to Ubuntu 10 years ago

Lol.

The last thing from Apple I had was a phone, I've switched to a Pinephone entirely.

That was a lot of work, I had to write my own power management service so I could get notifications during sleep without draining the battery excessively and there are still tons of bugs and little hacks I've written. If that scares you please just switch to a trackphone because smartphone software authors will continue taking advantage of you after you switch to something else.

Happy to see discussions like this - hope it will affect MBP prices!

None, I don't have CSAM on my phone and never will have so why should I care. If it helps reduce these crimes im all for it.

It would be hard to leave Apple. I'm at least waiting to see how this shakes out, and I'm aware of the fact that the other major commercial vendors (Microsoft, Google) are far worse than Apple on most of these issues.

Linux is still too high-maintenance for me, though I could be convinced. I am watching https://frame.work/ closely and considering grabbing one just to support that effort. The big flaw is use of Intel chips which are total shit compared to even Ryzens on power/performance.

The M1 makes leaving Apple even harder. The performance is great and the power efficiency makes a laptop feel like it has some kind of zero point infinite energy device in it. You can do a full day's work on an M1 running real apps like large builds, VMs, and IDEs and still have 1/3 battery remaining, and it's faster than a top-end Intel Mac.

There is absolutely nothing comparable to the M1 in the x64 PC ecosystem. A latest-generation Ryzen would be the closest you could get, but it's hard to find good Ryzen notebooks due to Intel's strong-arming of that space.

Good lord. Why is everyone so upset by this CSAM scanning? Google scans every email you send, Facebook tracks every gesture and post you click. What makes you think that apple hasn't been scanning, or at least had access to, all your stuff in the cloud anyways? The instant you trust your data with a third party, you forfeited your privacy. The whole CSAM thing isn't a revelation.

If you're upset by the thought of a third party entity looking at your stuff then stop using products by these companies. Use FOSS for your computer programs and OS's. Use a phone OS like graphene, /e/, or something else privacy oriented.

The only way to stop being a commodity is by sacrificing convenience and the only way to gain that convenience back is to build your own tools. Talk to the old timers here that have been using minimal OS's and building custom scripts for the past 20 years. They'll tell you that you get a level of speed, efficiency and customizability you can't get with name brand OS's.

The learning curve is worth it considering you build knowledge and skills not a lot of people today have. Not to mention you gain technological independence, which is worth its weight in gold.