How to grow after 10 years in the industry?

Lots of good advice around. My Personal story might have a few takeaways for you. Started as a sw developer in India, moved to US progressed as technical expert on the product. Moved back to India and became Manager. In 3 years as a manager realized how much I liked coding. I am at best an average developer, but the satisfaction I got after fixing a small defect was priceless. By this time I've had 15 years of "experience" in industry. I did my masters and now working as a full stack developer. Couldn't be happier.

Take a month off your job. Find out what you really like. You can read through all the replies let them brew, but the final answer will come from within. Trust your gut and take the risk.

May the force be with you !!!

You'll grow more as a producer[1] of know-how, rather than just a consumer of other's knowledge. People who _really_ know something can teach others through blogging, speaking. Or they can synthesize their knowledge into working projects that capture an aspect of the problem. The act of synthesizing and adding to a body of knowledge reinforces your own understanding, and forces you to stay up to date.

Instead of asking "where do I go to grow", think "what can I contribute?" "what can I teach?"... If money is also a priority, then find the intersection of that and what pays well (which luckily isn't that hard as a dev).

1 - By "producer" I mean an evangelizer, synthesizer, teacher, not just an "inventor" of brand new ideas

Sounds like you're already well on the way to "a new adventure with some real challenges" because you also mentioned your wife is pregnant. ;) But seriously, maybe wait till your 3rd little one is 2 or 3 before making any major career changes? I did a master's, it was well worth it for interesting parts of comp sci, and definitely opens some doors in terms of getting interviews. Not essential though. I did mine part-time. Not sure if its worth doing full-time as a more mature student.

I recently finished the OMSCS program through Georgia Tech. When I started I had a 6 month old, and when I finished, I had 3 year old and 1.5 year olds (program took 2.5 years). I have a pretty low requirements job, so I was able to get away with doing a considerable amount of it doing work hours, but there was a lot of late nights and weekends too. So, it is possible, but whatever you do make sure your wife is onboard and set expectations.

It has definitely helped me out getting job interviews. It seems like the only way to a considerably higher salary would be to either move to the US or work for a US company remotely. I am in the process of moving position for a 50% raise, so I would say it paid off for me. You have much more experience then I do, so if you are thinking about moving to the US maybe apply to a few jobs(even if you don't want them) and see what kind of offers you can get. If the offers are good enough you can make the move when you are ready, if they aren't what you are expecting maybe look into a masters.

1) Examine what it is you are really missing: you say you love your work and the team and it brings you joy. That is not so common. So maybe it is more about a new project or some lateral things that could be accomplished within the existing setup?

2) Not sure there is a (good) relationship between fit and salary. Some high salaries have a reason and those reasons might not be so pretty.

3) Masters. My experience is that folks opting for a masters later in their career tend to often have one of two things in mind: (a) some move towards executive/different career path, which then tends to mean MBA with the respective networking; or (b) some change in the "underlying", i.e. trying to add more skills that are somewhat different to the existing

I have a masters and I think it was a complete waste of time and money. It has not helped me at all at work nor with salary.

I haven't heard of someone being a VP of Engineering after just 5 years of SE and 65k after taxes after 10 years sounds a little low.

I think the main problem is that a few companies have very challenging technical work and are happy to pay really high salaries (think OpenAI specialists, a few teams at Google / Netflix pushing the boundaries forward), the rest need relatively trivial solutions and they will pay higher than average (think most people working at FANGs on stuff they're overqualified for) or average / lower than average (think most startups, small companies).

After a while, you won't grow technically in most companies and you won't advance the state of technology.

Some people just keep contributing the same stuff over and over until they die (1), some people specialise in some technically obscure niches and charge a premium for that (2), some people decide to become people managers (3) and eventually become CTO.

It doesn't seem like you're happy with (1), you already did (3), I would say you have too much people experience to go back and do (2).

A master's degree in something you like won't be particularly useful at your level, it could be an expensive gift to yourself.

If I were you I would just start my own business: you are technical, you are a manager; the next skill to learn could be business.

Other options include looking for a CTO role in an early stage startup, or doing the interview-algorithm-memorisation-game to join a FANG. Early stage startups and FANGs will likely not be very nice places to be in terms of politics though, so you may not be as happy as you're now.

Best of luck

My solution after 8 years in industry was to join an early stage startup as technical co-founder. It has been most challenging, difficult and satisfying experience by far compared to anything else I've done before. I feel i've grown a lot both professionally and personally.

What type of growth are you looking for? You say you are happy with your work and team, but you're also here asking for something more. What do you feel is missing?

Also, what hobbies do you have? Perhaps you need to find something fun to do when you're not working and not being a dad/husband.

Or maybe you need to change employment to get out of your comfort zone a bit and see what else is out there. I've found it's easy to stagnate when staying with the same company too long, though there are of course exceptions.

Gonna say something that might trigger you.

You’ll never move ahead working for someone else. And I just don’t mean money. I also mean satisfaction.

You have to consider productizing what you do to curb your dissatisfaction.

Yes, some people are fine working all their lives and enjoy where they are.

But it sounds like you want to go further.

Make a plan with your life that will buy you more freedom.

Freedom and time is worth more than money. But it comes at a high cost with up front work.

P.S. do the hard work now when the kids are little but spend quality time with them not quantity time. As your career grows you will have incredibly fulfilling times with them when they begin to understand the world. Because by then, you would have purchased more freedom.

You grow by knowing more without having to think first. That means that your first ideas are better ideas, and you arrive at solid solutions faster.

This applies in the small (writing a few lines of code) and in the large (designing an architecture).

What growth is expected for someone who has being VP of Engineering? That's as close as high as you can go, no? Or was it a small company with just you and a few others?

I enjoy growing my non-technical skills and learning how to work with people. Code is easy compared to the politics of a bureaucracy.

I can’t speak to the family aspect from personal experience.

Professionally it’s my experience that there is almost always something more challenging to attempt than what you are comfortable with, and that these challenges and the growth that comes with them can be carved up into very realistic, incremental, and achievable pieces.

Good luck!

> should I look for a new adventure with some real challenges?

Yes, at least always be open to it and looking for it. You need to meet new people who have an itch that you can scratch. People with deep pockets.

> should I stay and keep growing myself?

If you are happy with where you are and what you are doing, sure, but it sounds like you are ready to move on. You'll grow more with more experience at different companies / systems. You definitely need to learn to build system from scratch if you haven't already.

> am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit?

Yes, probably by about 25-100%, depending on market.

> should I pursue a master's degree?

Probably not. You learn way more on the streets. Not having a Bachelor's is sometimes a blocker to bigger things, but Master's, not so much. You get a much better education in the field.

First of all - If you are happy - everyone around is happy or content at least ( except teenagers - you cannot do it right for them - so don't try )

The thing with 'growth' is that tiny little man inside your head you were raised with - ignore him

think like a cave man - if the mammal(current stuff) still exist until I longer/resign, I'll will stay

If this mammal extinct(e.g. program language) - evolve

You have everything - which makes really (life)happy

Life is not your Job - Its your Life

If a nice opportunity looks around, peek into it, maybe its worth a change

choose wisely at this point

If you are sad everyone else is sad, maybe you lose everything because of sadness

To my person I work roughly 20 years in the industry - as a networking guy - raised & built networks you use

I did the unwisely way

Took a unwisely chosen because of indoctrinated emotions and lost everything

If you stay in between - make a clear mind first

Last year, I was in same situation as you. I don't have wife and kids per say. There are two things you could do - may be a tech co-founder in startup that would add jet fuel to your career. Jet fuel because either you will crash and burn or go to the next level. However I wouldn't recommend that to you as you have a family and it is difficult to do that with kids and wife.

The other thing I would say is, save up some money and invest in thing other than tech. In my situation, I wanted to own a restaurant, so I build a cafe in the Rishikesh, India. That gave me a side mission in life, I became more content with my career situation and pushed me to be better and happier.

If you could be the best in the world at something, what would it be? Let's ignore market for now. There's a lot of well paid jobs, and it's easier when you're the best option for it.

What do you love about your work now? 5 years as a VP of engineering is impressive for someone with a total of 10 years experience. Are you a great technical leader? Do you enjoy systems?

Maybe list down the things that you're happy with doing, and things that you're able to do which others hate doing.

heh. i am only recently moving into such vp-of-engineering role after 30+ years of doing everything softwarish that is not managerial-or-political, by any level/title. All the possible technical stuff plus mentoring, teaching, philosophy, methodology, cultures, "health"...

Why now? May be too late.. but managerial/political stuff has always kept me apart. esp. over-bureaucratizing the "process" towards people. The doubly-faced "you are not a cog but you are part of this machine"

Where can you go if you are already there, succesfully? Probably sideways, and much deeper. Growth doesn't need to be up. (what is "up" anyway?). It can be as size or area or volume.. or number of alternative worldviews/mindsets..

Ask yourself, what is carrer? "growth"? And, what is "interesting"? in your terms.. the answers might surprise you.

Degrees do not matter, except @ some bureaucratic places aka government. But the ways of learning, which you can learn while doing it, do matter.. And it's same with teaching/mentoring - what you learn by doing it, noone can ever tell you. Mind you, half might be 'seems i dont know enough of this to explain it to others'

have fun

> am I underpaid? I mean, will I be able to get a better salary if I find a better fit?

Definitely. I'm not sure where you're from, but if you're working for a US firm they should be paying you US wages. I could understand if you were just contracting out piece work, but a VP engineering salary should be double that minimum. The employment market is really hot right now, so just spend some time seeing what's out there.

Here is my 2 cents: 1. It looks like you have been a successful software engineer and were able to move up.

2. From the sound of it you hit the mastery portion of S learning curve in terms of technical ability. So no matter how much you "educate" yourself you will never hit the level of growth you experienced when you were younger. So staying current is the best part you can do in this section as that is how the tech world works.

3. There is a new skill set that you might still be in the early stages of and that is as a VP of Engineering/Managing people are getting the best of your team and being able to challenge yourself is this department. Technically no two companies are the same so this is a place where you can constantly challenge yourself. So changing the place you work at can lead to a lot of growth here, or possibly acting as a consultant for companies that don't need a "VP of Engineering" quiet yet.

3b. If being in management doesn't really interest you and you want to be an engineer, then working in another industry might keep you excited, like becoming a game programmer/iOT programmer, AI, Architecture, etc.

4. Could be changing careers all together because you don't feel challenged enough, you can use your current job to help fund your family and the learning for that new career.

5. Terms of Salary is all subjective to where you work and what the place you work. I technically take a 50k+ pay cut because I work for a small company. The current job gives me a lot of flexibility, less stress than I have ever had to deal with before. That piece of mind and relaxation is more important to me given some medical issues I deal with from time to time. So yes you can be underpaid, but is the great team and the place you work at worth it?

The end of the day these are my 2 cents on the matter, but what I will say at the end is to do what really makes you happy. Is it family, career, challenges, etc. Finding what truly makes you happy and doing that is the best career move you can make. I would say start with that :)

I struggle with this too. The best I can come up with is find a problem that one person can solve that would do the world some good and solve it, with software if I have to.

If you enjoy your work, do you really need to grow? You can always try to make things grow outside of work, like plants.

You will never get wealthy through employment, because lazy governments use tax on salaries as a proxy to tax big corporations. So you work hard and get very little in exchange.

Wealthy people live off passive income, dividends, capital gains and so on.

So if you want to take a jump, you need to become an expert on stock trading and start investing.

Then maybe after 10 or so years you could retire unless the government move goal posts again and tax the small guy more.

All good questions to ask!

First some context, there is no "win" in life. it is the journey that you will look back on and either be proud of or regret. And understanding that, understand that everyone's journey is different and so it is nearly impossible to compare yourself to others and their journeys and say with certainty your are doing 'better' or 'worse' than them. It is one of the few cases where it really is "all about you" :-)

So should you keep growing yourself? Absolutely. It is how you don't get bored and how you move to the next stage of the journey. Some of the choices you make will be less satisfying and being in the practice of always growing and learning you may find, as I have, that you don't feel 'trapped' by them, instead you just change direction.

Are you underpaid? Who knows? I have known people with the title "VP Engineering" who make literally three times what you are making as a base salary and have a bonus program besides. Not all of them liked their life. One in particular was constantly fighting depression and guilt over how little time they spent with their family and how their non-work relationships suffered. Their life had plenty of money but not enough joy. So it is a balance. My philosophy has always been if I'm making enough to cover my needs (current and projected), and I've got a life outside of work that is rewarding and enjoyable, then I don't need to change things (at least in compensation).

In my career more money has always come with more expectations and more responsibility, which manifests itself as stress when things are not going as they need to. I have turned down raises and promotions when I knew they wouldn't increase the quality of my life and would likely decrease it.

Should you pursue a Master's degree? If you have the resources and time, it helps with flexibility later. I have known folks who "grew up" in a company, started as an undergrad and were looking for a new job 20 years later. And their experience gave them a masters or PhD level of experience in their area of expertise, but without the certificate any new job was going to assume their expertise was over stated and there would be a 1 - 3 year 'ramp' period at the new job where the new employer got to internalize if they really were as expert as they thought/said.

From a technical perspective, if you're an engineer and get an MBa or business degree that makes you both more valuable and able to 'span' more of an organization. There is only so much you can accomplish as an individual, being able to bring a team together under a single vision gives you a huge boost in what you can get done. To do that you have to be able to talk to everyone in the concepts they understand so that you can clearly articulate a vision they can then help you execute.

Lastly, one trick that a college counselor taught me is to imagine you are doing your dream job or living your dream life. Now write a fictional history of that persons life, like someone reading an introduction of you before a TED talk. Start with the end point and work backwards in the history to where you are right now. It can give you ideas about what your next steps should be.

If you are happy, dont touch anything, would be my internet advice.

Your growth is attractive! For the first 5years, you worked as a Software Engineer. Assuming a good track record, you could have been a Senior or Staff engineer within that time frame. Then, how did you transition to VP within the next 5?

Master might keep you busy for 1-2 years

Country helps!

If you want to succeed in this industry. You have to constantly lie, cheat and manipulate. All the people I know who got promoted with big salaries had this in common.

You're severely underpaid. Yes, indeed pursue a master's degree. Definitely add an MBA also to your arsenal. Take risks. Diversify. Be ready to fail, to fall, and rise from ashes. Do you have second/ passive income to pay bills & rent irrespective of your paychecks ?