The message goes something like:
"Hey X, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing N things from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing ___. If there's anything I can help with please let me know."
To me, it just seems like disingenuous manager speak for "I've noticed that you're slumping, and really there are not other options, but let me know if you're planning on quitting or doing less".
Is there another interpretation? Is there a way to negotiate different or better terms at this point? How should she approach this?
The broader question is, how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that? It seems like everyone would inevitably just start performing worse over time, if they chose the performance indicator to be arbitrary and high. In software this would be the equivalent of just writing components or html for an extended period of time without any variety, which is soulcrushing.
“I’m finding this repetitive task combined with the isolation of quarantine is having a negative effect on my productivity. I’m interested in developing new skills to broaden or introduce some variety into my role, is there anything that we could do to make this happen?“
It’s turned from a question about someone’s productivity problems to a question about how much more can I do for the company. 9/10 a good manager will jump at the chance to avoid an awkward “why aren’t we getting the work done?” conversation and have a (much more productive) “let’s help each other out” conversation.
It is also very likely that no one has noticed the work is slowing down and it is just a normal sort of check in.
Really you should not let it get this far that you feel this negative about the work you are doing.
YMMV, & not my fault if you try this and lose the job anyway as loss of job is an expected outcome when you stop doing it. No one should get soulcrushed and discarded, but it does happen frequently.
Also, this only applies to the relatively privileged industry of ‘tech’ where you’re expensive to replace and finding anyone competent enough is an incredible chore.
More concerning to me is the "I always lose my job or quit." It sounds a lot like you're running into a pattern in your life which causes you to underperform. If it's emotional or mental, please consider seeking counseling. Brain chemistry can send a person on a roller coaster, and counselors really can help.
If the problem is simply that you are bored with the work, then could you move on sooner to a new job? Better to find new stuff than get bored so much it affects your work.
> how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time
Not everyone is that ambitious. Lots of people made a good life out of pulling the same levers for 30 years in a Ford plant. If you are ambitious, go somewhere that has room for it. If you find a happy little niche, there is also nothing wrong with being happy occupying it.
As much as it doesn’t feel like it, companies do not want to fire employees. It’s expensive to lose someone who knows the business, and expensive to hire someone.
Or maybe WFH has exposed that the work just isn’t worth doing and indicates it’s time to move on.
I prefer to know when somebody doesn't like some aspect of their job. Sometimes I can do something about it, sometimes I can't, but either way I can't do anything about it if I don't know what the problem is. There are people who are perfectly happy doing the same thing every day, in fact they prefer it. Sometimes those people have personal problems that are affecting their performance and maybe there's an opportunity to provide some short-term flexibility to help. If someone has gotten stuck with mundane work and they aren't a good fit for that kind of work, that's important to know.
For me, a message like that is never a prelude to a termination. That's pretty much the very last thing I want to do. It sucks. It might be necessary, but I'd rather avoid it. It becomes necessary when there is no other solution available and the organization can't just absorb the loss in productivity. Getting radio silence or a non-answer from the employee takes a whole lot of other solutions off the table.
But let's set all of that aside for a moment.
A more critical problem here IMO is that your friend is doing themselves a disservice. Being stuck doing something you hate for half your waking hours is a bad way to live. Sometimes you need a paycheck, but your friend should be trying to figure a way out of this situation ASAP. Talk to the manager, or start job hunting, or start making other decisions that allow them to not need that specific paycheck.
I actually want less variety. I never get consistent work. How can I be an expert if I don't have a steady type of work. I'm really struggling right now. A lot of that is because I know that anything I learn at work will be used once and then thrown away. What's the point of learning it at all?
For example, right now they want me to learn AWS Step Functions to automate our regression testing. The first thought I had was "there's nothing else I can see us using this for on our team". My second thought was "how will this work when the test data constantly changes and the tester's time is dominated by troubleshooting issues, mostly data issues".
I want strategy I can believe in and a role that allows me to grow into a respected expert. My only option is to switch jobs which is depressing (not a lot of good stuff out there for me based on my past). It sounds like this is anyone's best option when the underlying issue is dissatisfaction with the work.
Wow wow wow, no. I mean I guess it's always possible that anything could be disingenuous, but to me this sounds like a manager who genuinely wants to come to an understanding and figure out what they can do to make things better for everyone, you included.
A good manager understands that people can only be at their most productive when they're happy and working on things that play to their interests and strengths. Firing someone and hiring someone else is extremely expensive. Nine times out of ten they genuinely want to help. Let them!
> The broader question is, how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that?
Most companies I've worked at are happy to let someone shift to another area, for the exact reasons I outlined above (if you communicate with them that you're bored!). If you have specific knowledge that the company in question won't do that then, well, maybe it is time to move on. But why would you just assume they won't be open to it? At the very least raise the subject before quitting!
Especially during the pandemic, I've had people go through varying levels of productivity. Maybe it's depression, boredom, personal stuff, burnout, whatever. We're human beings.
I've been allow to institute mental health days - if the month doesn't have a (US) federal holiday, book a day off. If you're really burning out, let's see what we can do about that - also involves time off.
Depending on what area you're in (I'm in devops), it costs probably 6 months of your salary to replace you, plus it's hard, and all your knowledge leaves with you. Plus people remember when you back them up - it means a lot on a human level.
It's been done for me and I do my best to pass it on.
Good luck.
"Looks like you're not as productive lately? What's going on? This place (bay area) is small, everyone knows everyone. Your reputation will follow you."
A job is a means to an end -- nothing more. If you are one of the lucky few that truly enjoy their 9-5 then count your blessings. For the rest of us, we cannot rely on our career to live a fulfilling life. Depression and mental health are not to be taken lightly and often lead to declining work performance. Accept that a job is just that -- a job. Encourage your colleagues who may be down in the dumps to stimulate their spirits outside of work and hopefully the rest will follow.
I have worked for the company I am with for ~5 years, and I usually take a large chunk of time (2-3 weeks) off at the end of the year to recover and reset. Because of the nature of my work I am pretty busy the rest of the year to take more than a few days at a time for any vacation (read: I work while on vacation).
This year my client was particularly pushy and wanted a butt in a seat over the holidays, and because I was the newest on the contract I was selected to be the person who stayed. This bumped my year end reset into the next year (which almost didn't happen at all).
Come the end of May, I realized I was burned out, only by the way of my clients complaining, and not understanding why I couldn't sit down and give a damn about my work.
I realized I had to do something, or else the cycle would continue and I would end up without a job. I reached out to my manager and said what was going on. Told him I am burned out, I need to take a vacation, I need to get right. My manager took this news with grace, told me to tell my client I would be out sick the rest of the week, and to take PTO the following week.
YMMV, but I can tell you that if you are in a good company and they truly value you, you will get the support you need. Many managers are coming around to the idea that people burn out, and that we need time away from keyboards, phones, and having to worry about work, to truly recover.
If your manager isn't receptive to this, that is a good sign you need to take some time, and look for a new position as well. If you can afford the time, take a week or two between jobs (if you end up leaving), to recover and not just head into your new position with the same burn out you are currently experiencing.
I wish you luck, and hope you are able to get the help/rest you need.
> or if you've been spending more time doing ___
Like, are they referring to other work-related tasks that maybe they shouldn't be focusing on, or are they suggesting non-work stuff is going on (even if that is that case), cause that would seem like a huge red flag to gtfo asap.
If it lands them in unemployment it was likely inevitable in the short term anyway.
As soon as "that feeling" starts, best to keep up with the local job market and be ready to fire off job applications at a moments notice, especially if the money is needed.
As regards to maintaining output in mundane work, I think churn is just 'the cost of doing business'. There's always new as-yet-un-jaded graduates making their way into the jobs market.
Calling this "manager speak" feels a bit annoying to me as a (sometimes) manager, I for one, generally would like people to be happy and work on things they like. And I hope people indicate it if they aren't. Everybody goes through waves of increased and decreased motivation, as long as you are aware of it and try to learn from it, it's fine by me.
"if you've been spending more time doing ___"
Is the underlined blank something you aren't supposed to be doing?
For example, if the statement was:
"Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing new features from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing work to cut down our tech debt"
That could be an innocuous question with no hidden criticism. Just curiosity about who is doing what. I'd ask for clarification if that were the case:
"Yes, I've been working on tech debt items, as I can see that nobody else is. Is my intuition right, or would you rather I work on new features?"
If the work is repetitive and rote, a tech person should take initiative and automate it away!
There’s always human problems behind the tech problem - stop writing yet another CRUD api/microservice and find out the human issues and automate those away!
If I am your manager, my goal is to make you long run successful. That means if you are burning out, or are busy doing things that you don't need to worry about - it's my job to help you fix it.
What I very often see with people is the metaphorical trash on the floor problem. Being good employees, they pick up a piece of trash in the lobby. This is good. But over time, they may accidentally get sucked in doing janitorial work full time and ignoring their real job.
I see the manager's email as looking into this - what is going on with the employee, are they doing something wrong that's stressing them out and how can I help?
A lot of people in this thread tell you yo take the managers email at face value and I think they are right at least as the first path. Notice that you are probably reading this wrong as evidenced by your own outcomes - you always lose the job or quit which may be evidence that your ability to navigate this situation is poor. Your instinct to ask others (us) for advice is right and you should stick with it even if the advice feels counter intuitive to you.
There's also the question of how you find meaning in your work and I do think it's mainly up to us. If the company needs you to do X and you need the money and can't find another job, then part of your responsibility to yourself is to figure that out. For example, can you do X while learning how to do X more efficiently so you can do it in less time? Can you bond to your colleagues more? Is there truly no lateral movement in the company, etc?
My personal experience however is this - people who are genuinely interested in a wide range of experiences and roles already structured their career to maximize that exposure. If someone is mid-career and hasn't bothered to do it , chances are it's not their primary motivator. So likely it's not "the job" that's boring per se, it's the temptation to not work, to be outside in the sun.
By the way - have you tried the simplest approach? Take the laptop outside so you can work and enjoy the weather at the same time?
I am throwing a lot at the wall here but it's the same advice is give a friend who was "struggling" through this.
Either way, there isn’t much you can do if the burnout is real, other than being honest. Explain why you’re feeling burned out, perhaps even come up with suggestions to how it potentially could be mitigated. A good manager will try to accommodate you in some way. If they’ve been with the company for a long time, they might even have experience with dealing with burned out staff or have the option to shuffle some tasks around to give a tiny bit of variety. If he can’t and just lets you go, then the deadline just moved - if you were burning out, it would eventually have come to this anyway. Hard to hear, harder to experience but nothing to do but look for something new with more meat on it :)
I can relate to that. And my solution is simply to work outside very often.
But the conditions need to be right, distraction free. (and of course it depends on the kind of work she is doing)
I have a place outside, hidden from sight and noise by rocks and trees. I can only hear the river softly flowing down in the valley - this is just a perfect distraction free environment for me.
But I moved specifically to this place, because of those conditions. You say you life in a apartment? Maybe you can rent out a garden plot somewhere, where you can set up a nice place in the shade, so that she can at least spend some working hours outside and not feel trapped inside?
This might help in general, whether she stays with the current job, or not.
> how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that?
Actually, once you've established that you're capable you can usually ask for assignments / work that interests you more. This also requires additional communication. Even if there's nothing immediately available, your manager will keep it in mind when looking forward to the kinds of work you express interest in.
Once she gets back from her time off, she'll get to the more practical side of things. Companies retain employees for even tedious labor because of labor supply and demand forces. Those forces are strong enough in the direction of labor for certain technical vocations that labor has the advantage.
For others, the reverse is sometimes true. You may be seeing that play out in action right now.
This is essentially what I do, and I enjoy it! I like my work to be a bit boring so that I can save my energy and creativity for things outside of work. I convert designs into functional websites. Somebody recently likened my job to being a construction worker or general contractor. Maybe 2-3 times a year I get something challenging, and I either jump at the chance to learn something new (if it’s something interesting or for a client I like) or I dread it (if the documentation is unclear or the client is exceptionally difficult).
I've been on both sides of the table.
My advice isn't orthodox, but it's real.
The first question is, is your manager some kind of psychopath? If they are then just quit and move on. It's painful. Maybe it will work out so you should stay. They're really nice underneath... all that stuff. No. Just quit. It won't get better. They won't change. They won't suddenly care about you. You're done. Move on.
If they aren't a psychopath then just level with them. Be completely honest that you're burning out right now and you need a break, or a different role, or you don't know and you need help. They will either fire you immediately and you can move on, or they'll figure out a way to help you. From a managers point of view this is fantastic - a report is telling you what they need, or they need help. The worst employees are the ones that are just a continual problem. If you flag that you're a short-term problem, or a solvable problem or a problem that needs help this is 1,000x better than someone who's a problem every day.
A good manager is a human being. They truly want to help. They'll ignore or figure out a way around the corporate stuff. If they aren't a human being, just move on. If you are a continual problem, don't be mad if they move on from you.
Most managers, I think, have only had two types of people with "performance problems". Type 1: A real problem. Your cat died. Your parent died. You broke a leg. Your car crashed. You just don't like your role. All of these are ok. We're all human. Your human manager will support you through it and figure out leave or a new role or whatever else is required.
Then there's type 2: You stop coming in. It's not clear what's going on. You don't talk. Different problems every week - your ankle hurts then your dog got bitten by a snake. Then something else and then something else. Then something else. It's endless.
Managers... we just don't really know what to do. There's no clear problem. We try things to help you. We try more things. And more. And more. Then it's six months later and we're burnt out and we fire you. But we don't want to. We're still human. We've been there too.
So help everyone, be clear and up front. If your manager is kind they'll figure it out. If they're not then you're better off moving on.
The medium is also everything. Talk in person, talk over email, talk over chat. Make a phone call. Video. You don't know how people like to communicate. It's easy to take things out of context. Try to connect as much as you can.
But don't be afraid. Just level and see what happens. It might be messy and painful like any human interaction but at least you'll work through it.
Again - yes, there are psychopath managers. They're not confined to fast food restaurants. The sooner you figure out you have a psycho manager, the better. Just move on and pray for them, in the best way. Truly pray for them to be better because you should be grateful you don't live in the personal hell they seem to.
........
on this:
"Hey X, hope you're doing well. Just wanted to check in and see if you'll still be doing N things from here on out, or if you've been spending more time doing ___. If there's anything I can help with please let me know."
They're trying to connect with you and balance the corporate written communication balancing act. Be kind. Video call. Chat in person. Find a way to connect and be honest about what's going on and if they're a good person they will help, and if they're not a good person, leave.
Not everyone needs this, but in most companies you could just say what's wrong.
Eg. In Belgium, it wouldn't be a valid reason to fire someone and i don't think it's in the benefit of the employer.
Say what's wrong and try to get a solution.
If the company is bad and you don't trust them, look for another company :)
You can always go work at a park with wifi or something for variety.
Make sure it’s a good fit.
See a psychologist and/or psychiatrist. This is something you can work through. Whatever issue you’re dealing with, there’s people who are very experienced in helping you figure out what it is and how to start dealing with it.
For what it’s worth, you might have ADHD if you’re always quitting or being fired because of an inability to perform to your own abilities. Or you might have some other different issue. But life doesn’t have to be this way. For most people, it isn’t.
Many people are scared of seeing mental health professionals because they don’t want to be put on medication. Getting better doesn’t necessarily require medication, but it might be an option. Not all ADHD meds are stimulants. Some like guanfacine, for example, will just improve your executive function and emotional stability without much in the way of side effects. But no one is gonna put you on a chemical cocktail without your consent, and you are free to say you want to try non-medication options before even considering that route.
Life doesn’t have to be so hard for an intelligent and capable person. If you work through this you can be happier, more fulfilled, less stressed. That can literally mean extra years on your life. You don’t have to suffer alone.
This comment thread is great but beware. People without a mental health issue do not understand what it’s like to have one. They can usually only think about your experiences through analogy to their own normal struggles. Most mental health symptoms, even schizophrenia, exist in some de minimis way in most people. But normal people can’t recognize that the symptoms are so different in severity in people with a disorder that normal function cannot be willed. A normal person is really bored, procrastinates for a bit, and eventually gets it together. They certainly don’t lose job after job at great personal cost to themselves. But someone with ADHD might feel something almost like pain at the prospect of working on a boring task. They might spend hours trying to work on something but just can’t make it happen. Only the intense adrenaline of a new deadline, maybe the third or fourth new deadline for the same task after blowing past previous ones, can make them finally overcome their issues and get to work. That is no way to live, and you don’t have to live like that.
Finally, if losing this job would be a serious problem for you, be very careful what you tell anyone at work. You might want to talk to an employment lawyer. As plaintiffs’ lawyers, they will almost certainly charge you nothing for just a quick consult.
How an employee responds to that depends on many factors: The relationship employee and manager have, the trust between them, the motivation on employee side to be open and honest and look at mutually-beneficial alternatives, remain in that team/company, etc. It also depends on culture of the company, and hugely on just the person - what they want and how they want to approach it.
Not knowing any of those factors, I cannot suggest how you or your partner should approach it; however, how I would approach it, and how I hope my team members approach it is:
1. Be as open as comfortable, as detailed as productive about:
a) What you feel is your impacted performance, e.g. "I don't feel I'm creating code to my standard of quality" or "I've noticed it's become difficult for me to concentrate in afternoon meetings" or whatever it may be
b) Circumstances / causes you may be of that. Again, personal comfort and relationship/trust are a factor. I would feel comfortable talking to my manager "My newborn is keeping me up at night, and the 7am daily standup puts me between rock and hard place", or "My A/C is not working and I'm finding it hard to mentally focus when my office is 30C", all the way to something as longterm as "I don't mind remote work on daily or weekly basis, but i've noticed over last 12 months that I've lost some subtle motivation, internal vision of the goal and camaraderie" (fwiw, I've discussed these three with my manager last 6 months). Your relationship may be more formal/distant however, so you may be more comfortable being more generic or abstract. Note managers are highly constrained in HR and rules WHAT they can ask you; that doesn't mean they don't want to know/support - it just means burden is on you to volunteer that information. Here, e.g. Manager CAN NOT ask you if you have a medical problem and what it is; but you are allowed to volunteer it (NOTE: this is specific to my province in my country; check your local religation) and they are then allowed to support you with it.
2. Come prepared, if possible, with proposals and compromises. It's awesome if you come to manager not just with problem, but possible solution
"Would it be possible for me to skip 7am daily standup, to ensure I am rested and productive rest of the day?"
"I think I might be more productive on QA then on development for next few months as it would motivate me and engage different part of my brain"
"I cannot maintain the tempo of operations in the long term, but I think my ops experience could really make me a productive release manager / developer / whatever to support this team"
etc etc etc
3. Be positive, open, non-confrontational. Explore possibilities together. Give their proposals a chance; sleep on them if that's what it takes to remove initial negative gut-reaction.
... Hope this helps a bit, and good luck! :)
Or 4-day 30-hour week.
The 30 hours is important for America -- because of health insurance.
If none of that works, try to get 20 hrs/week part time, so you don't starve, go homeless, etc.
I doubt it's actually enough to fix burnout, but...worth a shot?
I wonder if there are any 9-5 jobs out there that are still interesting -- where you get to do more than just 'x'. I'm thinking - in a comfy corporate setting - the one with health insurance.
I guess some jobs are genuinely more interesting than others, but...getting one that you're never going to be seriously considered for -- don't know what the answer is for that.
I don't know if it was more Taylor or Ford or whoever, but Adam Smith did warn that capitalism would lead to humans who would naturally lose the desire to do braindead work, and become "as stupid and ignorant as it is possible for a human creature to become."
So from that POV, burnout shouldn't surprise.
I think managers are on the good/bad spectrum -- but that's totally missing the point.
Even if you're sexing your manager, you might get a rude awakening when your performance start's affecting your manager's/sex partner's career.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Take week vacation, or more, maybe you can do a week or two to recharge, unpaid, etc.
All the usual stuff applies and likely won't help - eating right, exercise, sleep, socializing, getting outside, enough B12, get blood work done if/while you can, see if you have deficiencies affecting energy levels.
Maybe meditation? I'm a believer, but don't do it.
Or, try to transfer within the company. Last time I tried that, it didn't work, I stayed too long, should have bounced, was a complete disaster, literally almost killed me, etc.
So that's probably my best advice -- try to be willing to consider doing those things which you won't consider doing to support yourself while you un-burn-out -- drive for uber, stocking grocery store shelves, etc.
One thing I realized now that I'm an old -- people go thru crazy stuff. Like, I'll say something pretty revealing about some stuff I went thru in life or work or whatever -- casual convo at the bar, American-style, whatever -- and someone will be like, "Oh yeah, me too, but [insert their 10x story here]."
I'm like, 'J** F** -- like how are you still here??' :-D
People at work have gone thru and are going thru that.
BUT...trusting that to your manager? Sometimes it's the only play you got, and usually, imo and experience, I would _not_ recommend playing that card.
Instead, you're fine, you're energized, you _love_ your job and always will and are energized for more work -- it's just that you "want new challenges".
I feel like it's super-easy to quit yourself out of a job, especially when you're low-energy/depressed/burned-out/intellectually-and-emotionally-defenseless when your manager or your manager's manager says, "So I hear you're not feeling motivated??"
It sounds like you already know this is a firing email.
The best thing is to reset your career. Graduate school is a very good way to do this. Get some wins, it will pep you up.
> how can a company expect to retain employees/contractors if the only work available is the same tedium over a long period of time, and no way to change that?
Getting fired sucks dude.