I work at FAANG and this is my third job. At second job I was fired, at first I was about to get PIP'd.
In my current job I have high and low phases. I don't feel respected at my job and it has had severe effects on my self esteem. I have been anxious/ depressed for around a decade-- I am taking anxiety medicines and planning to start therapy.
There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily. I have found I work on my side things with interest but I am not a completer. I complete around 80% of things and then leave them.
I am not sure I can keep working this way. Not having a good relationship with my manager (I never feel secured or that they have my back) has made me tired and don't know exactly what to do.
> I never feel secured or that they have my back
3 good things: (1) your biggest problem is yourself (which means it’s in your control, possible to change), (2) you’re at least partially aware of that, and (3) you’re obviously good enough to get hired at FAANG so probably not actually “below average”.
Of course, changing your mindset is hard… the first step is knowing it’s possible. The second step is, trying out all the well-known techniques (meditation, equanimity, gratitude, working out, abundance mentality, …) and seeing what works.
So my goal is to retire ASAP because I know retirement is the life I'll thrive under. You should aim for that in the long term and in the short term, find a new job. FAANG companies have horrible work cultures. There are plenty of software jobs that are laid back and easy-going, and finding a new job is also a chance at a better manager.
This reminds me of a quote about how MIT has a way of turning physicists into lawyers. What it means is that people who started school trying to be physicists, got overwhelmed with competition at MIT and end up reverting to law school after graduation because their confidence in physics was diminished. Where if they went to a regular school, their skills (and confidence) would have grown.
> I have high and low phases
> I have been anxious/ depressed for around a decade
> There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily
I have bipolar disorder so the above sentences caught my attention. The thing about bipolar is that it is hard to diagnose. I wasted 10's of thousands of dollars on in appropriate therapies like SSRI's and Ativan and just general talk therapy. The low phases often masquerade as anxiety depression and the high phases can look like borderline personality disorder or even schizophrenia.
Also, drug and alcohol abuse can make it impossible to get a correct diagnosis.
I got my life back and became productive once I was properly diagnosed and given a med that worked for me (Quetiapine) I also quit alcohol and drugs (except moderate amount of coffee)
I recommend seeing a psychiatrist and relating your moods and activities honestly and completely and see if bipolar rings true.
Also, you work at a FAANG, for any reasonable definition of success, you've made it. You wouldn't be where you are if you weren't good at what you do and vetted by lots of people. Can you get better? Have you done mistakes? Probably, but that doesn't mean you're bad.
This was the primary reason I got checked out for ADHD. Turns out I have ADHD.
Might be worth asking a doc for a checkup. I am not diagnosing, just suggesting to rule it out.
Another suggestion would be to stop placing so much importance on your job. Find other hobbies. Most people work to make a money, bonus points if you find it to be your passion but I don't think that's the norm. Accept that there will be days where you're just going through the motions.
A good therapist can help you figure this out, and give you better coping strategies.
It took me years to figure it out but I struggled to be consistently productive because of a mix of untreated insomnia, adhd and bipolar 2. What made the difference for me was really analyzing my symptoms, seeking out goal/skills-oriented therapist (a PsyD not a MFT), and not giving up after the first psych med or two didn't work.
I've seen people who really lack the awareness to know that they're underperforming, or the willpower to try to fix it and get help. Thankfully you don't seem to be one of those people.
Also, I'm going to echo everyone and say that you should probably get screened for ADHD. With ADHD it's very common for an inability to focus -> frustration that you can't get things done as fast as you should be -> depression/anxiety.
> There are phases where I work with high motivation but it fades easily. I have found I work on my side things with interest but I am not a completer. I complete around 80% of things and then leave them.
Probably describes most of HN so don't feel too bad about that haha.
It's not a magic solution, but considering you work at a FAANG you have sufficient $$$/insurance to pursue therapy/coaching.
Don't misunderstand. Just finding a good therapist/coach is work. You will probably have to "try" a few and they're not cheap. And then once you find a good fit the real work begins.
But, it can be a great investment. Think about it this way. Sounds like you are in your 20s or 30s. You have potentially 30+ years of employment left at $150K+ per year. That is potentially 4 or 5 million dollars, maybe more. So, when considering the costs of coaching/therapy, weigh it against this amount.
Remember that million-dollar athletes and even college and high school athletes have all kinds of coaches to help them perform. Why should YOU not deserve it?
(Side note: why don't companies invest in coaching for their expensive engineers? Considering the high cost of recruiting and retaining engineers, this seems like it would be a great competitive advantage...)
Whether you try coaching, therapy, or some other completely different route I wish you luck. Please know that you are not alone.
Please don't plan on starting therapy, get it started now! Also, get a full physical from your doctor - there could be underlying medical issues causing these problems. Seriously, I've known people with these kinds of issues and a combination of medical therapy (they had a vitamin D deficiency and their brain chemicals weren't in the right balance) and therapy completely turned their life around. It wasn't easy though, especially at the outset. If the problem is you have brain chemicals out of whack I'd love to tell you that they'd be able to easily fix it but they can't. What they're going to do is try different things and see what works. It can be frustrating and you may think your doctors are idiots during this process - but realize that's today's state-of-the-art.
Remember, you're worth the effort to get to the bottom of this and get it turned around. Get the help you need and good luck!
When you recognize a strong feeling within yourself, you can work with it to find a balance in the following way.
Find the 'negative' emotion. Now enter a meditative state. Call up the emotion into your awareness - use imagery, imagination, sensing, whatever helps. Once you have a hold on the emotion, amplify it - seek to feel it in your entire being. Whether its sadness, fear, not being appreciated - amplify the feeling until it fills every cell of your body. Do this for a few seconds only, until it feels like the feeling begins to change or subside. (It can take as few as 3 or 5 seconds, or much longer, depending). The goal is to feel the feeling as intensely as you can (without hurting yourself!). Doing this will shift it!
Then, seek to find the opposite feeling. Ask yourself, what is the opposite feeling? Feeling grateful for your job? What does that feel like? Imagine yourself feeling this feeling. Imagine a world-scenario that would trigger this feeling. Visualize yourself in a situation which triggers this opposite feeling. Then, amplify that feeling, and feel it in every cell of your body, for a few seconds.
This will completely shift your experience of the emotion and your viewpoint on the relevant issue/topic/area/domain in which the emotion is being triggered. It's a very effective technique.
Wishing you good things.
Life is too precious not to live it, not to explore what could be, esp when current path becomes unbearable.
But I am a 26 year old sales guy, who is in a similar boat (I wouldn't say I am depressed but have this deep intense feeling of "something is missing" I need to do more. I think I have had a mixed career, My first job I was PIP'd and I voluntarily left soon after. My second job I was the company's number 1 salesperson (Out of 60) and made a ton of money, I again soon left after- because "Something" was missing. My third job was so-so at best and again I felt something... On my 4th Job now, doing great by all respects, and yet I am interviewing for another job (Scratching my head on why).... The only rational explanation I have found is I love change... if you have savings and a good relationship with family/GF, I think a good idea might be to take some time off and spend sometime away from it all to think about what "really matters" and then come back and find your next path...
You could also accept that Faangs are full of slackers and coasters--stop tying your self-esteem to your work or your boss (who is actually your adversary, squeezing as much work from you for the lowest price). Do enough to be of interest to other teams there, have a few references and savings and just assume you will be let go, and focus on improving your life and your next opportunity.
Now that that's out of the way, I did think about it a lot in recent years, and I came to the conclusion things become unbearable when too many things are off at the same time. When I was younger the work was on its own motivating enough, but this is no longer the case because I don't do anything really interesting. Now when I come to work already unhappy, and on top of that know the only way to solve a problem is to dig through crappy code for three days, it becomes the straw that broke the camel's back.
Things I work on and try to advise my kids, even though it's hard for me is: don't worry too much and just do it (whatever it is). We get better insights into things when we do them, so we get better. I don't really have an inferiority complex, but I did waste a lot of time in the past polishing things because I was worried what people might think. I wanted it to be great! But this doesn't work because it takes too much time, and somebody will always find a reason to criticize because it's not how they would do it. So it's like a double nothing. I also notice this is quite prevalent in this "industry" (although it's quite a wide spectrum, I am no way near a FAANG). It's made worse by a lot of people who suffer abuse (being looked down upon etc) and then solve it by abusing other people in similar ways. There are a lot of people who are arrogant and scared at the same time.
Lastly, in my case at least, I'm just not really that interested in the job anymore, above all not the grind. But it's a respected and well paid profession, so it's difficult to let go. It also became kind of a part of my identity, so if I walk away, what is left of me?
I suggest finding a Psychologist and trying some therapy (CBT/DBT). If your already on anxiety medications, I'd be careful taking those. You should only take them when your anxiety is at the very highest in low doses. Benzos are often over-prescribed and can be abused and can lead to physical dependence. A Psychiatrist will try prescribing all sorts of medications if they diagnose you with depression or ADHD, and you should be skeptical. You can also try (with therapy) other more non-invasive treatments like getting good exercise (cardio), sunlight (vitamin-D). There are other things that are more experimental too like TMS, Ketamine, etc.
Sleep and diet hygiene (in addition to exercise) are always important.
After years of treatment-resistant depression and being prescribed all sorts of medications (SSRIs, even a low-dose anti-psychotic at one point), I did a bout round of TMS and it really helped me.
First thing I’d suggest if all three have been FAANG is to try a different type of company. There are plenty of other industries that need tech staff - think banks, consultancies, consumer goods, insurance, retail. Almost any type of company these days.
Try to find a good culture (as difficult as that is through the interview process!), a good manager, and build your confidence back.
Often friends and contacts that have worked somewhere are the best way to find out if a company culture is good. Take “Top places to work” surveys with a grain of salt.
Good luck!
There have been many discussions here recently about taking time off to rediscover your passion or just plain satisfaction. Going back over the decade, there were discussions here around people switching careers entirely (wood working, ski pro, ...)
If so, I get it, that's my tendency as well. The only method I found was to take breaks and think about it in a dissociative state, then I also try to live with boredom. I don't see boredom or frustration as enemies, they are like an itch I can't give in to, because scratching a bug bite makes it even itchier.
To practically improve this way, meditation gave me that extra dose of willpower to last through boredom. meditation simply teaches you to passively observe, it keeps your emotions in check, if you practice enough.
I would just stay until you get fired. You're aren't going to get paid more somewhere else, right? Maybe start looking into FIRE. That way you can quit sooner, or get to a point where you don't care if you're fired.
On a side note, how did you get almost PIP'd and then fired and still get hired by FAANG? I feel like if I get fired from my job that I won't be able to find another one unless I take an entry level position for even less pay.
I think a therapist/meds or even a coach could provide the best help for you. A therapist should be the ones to diagnose you, but this _ might_ be an attention disorder like ADD. I know really smart people that suffer from this, and I see in them a lot of starting new/interesting things with manic energy and not finishing. However it could also be a sign of other mental health issues, so definitely consult a professional.
It's important to ensure your mind/body feel there is light at the end of the tunnel, not just at the macro but micro (days, weeks) level too.
high five buddy!
Don't focus to get more work on your head. Try to find a spot in the team where dependency on you will be less. Don't stress yourself.
It will be hard, sleepless nights, panic attack in the morning If I wake up early, what I do, I oversleep and work in drowsiness. And then I open outlook, teams, meetings, panic attack starts. A clear head becomes a turbulent head and doesn't know what he is talking about.
I know I'm above average, you are also above average. It's mostly people that disturbs the mind.
What worked for me in the past - I wanted to get my life under my control. Moved nearby my office, setup a good routine, removed distractions, got into fitness, veggies, fruits, threw away mobile, I touch computer only at work. I stopped speaking or letting anyone to waste my time at office. I became a loner, but I was focussed. I got better, started a side project, never overdid anything and practiced meditation. My only goal was to keep mind occupied and do not loose thoughts.
It worked pretty well. And everyday routine was boosting my energy levels up and up. but one day It got ruined. Family and relatives missed me so I started spending and sacrificing my interests for them. Mind went back to same old same old dancing head phones.
I still miss and in fact I'm living in past and in my present reality I know for sure I'm really not present. I really have no clue how I'm even surviving work / life but I need to earn to provide for my mom and my sister. That's the only reason I have. But even that I'll forget.
The only reason I spoke this much is that, I feel the same. I was good in my school, I liked math and science. College was a new world. It started fine but something went upside down. Then I was excited about work, for first 3-4 years it was exciting and fun, then interests and motivation went down. Throughout my life I used to find reasons why I have memory loss, why I cant pay any attention, trying to find out answers or cures, and most of the time I'll be lost in a cooked up reality believing in some non-sense that keeps me happy at that moment but serves no purpose to survive in the world. Recently I have started thinking that's how the world is. Friends moved on,
Your TC will be cut in half (or worse), but your base might not suffer as much as you think, as long as you negotiate well.
If you find that you can't stand the low expectations and slow pace, you can always go back to tech. But it might help to spend a few years in a low-performance environment and find meaning outside of work.
Consider leaving FAANG behind. It may not be you, it could be them. If you want to stay in tech there are other companies that would salivate over your resume. Also, expectations could be lower performance-wise.
Try new things. I know it sounds simple, but doing the same thing over and over is not likely to help if things are not going well.
Does FAANG do something like this? I've seen smaller companies offer mental health support and I hear Google would promote meditation. The stress level in FAANG has to be pretty high, with most of it self-inflicted.
1. Strength training with dumb bells/machines. If you can't go to the gym, buy the dumbbells and do squats, etc.. Form is important.
2. If you're male, go on nofap. You may not believe it but go on nofap for a month and you will see the difference. If it works for you, do it permanently.
3. 8 hours of sleep.
These should automatically improve your focus/motivation and solve depression/anxiety.
1. Shuffling around credit between people and projects
2. "Getting by" enough to not be fired
3. Studying something of interest through the work
At competitive companies it's a lot of the first - everyone's looking for a way to take credit, which means there's a lot of performance anxiety and destructive power plays. Companies that are "coasting" see more of the second type, and this is roughly where you are in terms of mindset. It may be a dead end, but you will get paid for a while; of course this clashes if you are in a competitive team. But if the job involves an implict need to absorb stress or physical exertion, it can feel like plenty enough to get by.
But it's the third that is the only one that has some innate sense of contentment, and is always tied to those "dream jobs" and "dream projects" people seem to have, and the kind of drive that motivates high achieviment and immense technical ability. In a lot of cases it has to come from within; teams lacking leadership in this respect fall into coasting or bickering behavior, and society as a whole defaults to total indifference. So it can easily happen that you feel a purpose for a few years, then fall down for a while, then rediscover yourself. But you have to continuously have that purpose in mind to not get overly swept up in events.
It's almost certainly the case that you have something you want to study more deeply, and if you set yourself up to go down that path you would start to excel within months without feeling difficulty. But knowing it means knowing yourself and doing some deconstruction of the path you've followed so far. School-to-FAANG is a kind of life script, and all life scripts have a lack of "happily ever after" closure to them.
How do you do that deconstruction? There's no definite way, but it's a question that guides a lot of philosophy around virtue ethics and self development. So one way to go about this would be to get philosophical for a while, take a class, read some classics. Another is simply to push yourself a little to get out of your comfort zones and try out things you think you will struggle with. One of my favorite methods is simply to draw on the energy of high achievers in various fields and their biographies, interviews, etc. Live streams, by being so encompassing for long periods, can reveal a lot of underlying drive, attitude, etc. So I will often turn to gaming streams to see some of that.
Play more and work less to get your juices flowing again. Also, read about what people are working on, eventually someone will trigger you into passion mode.
Also (or instead, if you are not financially/emotionally ready to take the huge leap above), set aside time to practice finishing as a skill independent of project / area of endeavor. I recommend video games with achievements as they have a more objective finish point than most other things you could do for this. Also they are fun and will make you smarter. Start with short, easy ones that have no hidden or notoriously difficult trophies and just focus on building a record of 100% completions. You can then draw on this experience for confidence and determination to help you finish work and personal projects
I guess your first step is to get this sorted with specialists.
There is no point in asking what to do with your job when you don´t feel like working at all.
1 month ago discussion:
Advices for Burnout and Depression
Every one of these people has a different experience. Many of them feel the same as you do, and they think they know something that helps them. But what helps them, might not help you. Your goal is a breadth-first search -- try as many things as possible, and quickly discard the ones that don't work.
Most of the advice won't work. Okay? That's the advice I have for you, and in my opinion is the #1 thing you need to recognize. Your job here, is to find the one that will.
And the only way to do that, unfortunately, is to actually do the advice that actually works.
It took a long, long time for me to find out what that was for me. And what it was for me, probably isn't going to be that for others. It's prozac and adderall for me. But I also know people who are convinced adderall is helping them –– but they are fooling themselves, and the result is sometimes destructive. I've also heard of people that take prozac, and then bad things happen. I'm not sure what "bad things," but I know that there are people who take prozac, followed by bad things.
So if I said, "What works for me is prozac and adderall," and you ran off and did those, there's a chance that it could be true for you too. But there's a higher chance that one of them and something else might help you. There's also a chance that both might hurt you.
That's true for every single reply in this comment section. My goal here is to warn you, not to advise you.
The flip side of that is, there's very likely something here that will help you. I needed some help, for a long time. It wasn't until prozac, that I actually got it. Because I didn't know that a "magic solution" existed for me personally. I had to (thankfully) stumble across that.
So, try lots of things. Discard things that don't work. Repeat.
In my experience when the source of pain is removed, happiness, or at least relative contentment, ensues.
Find something to do, rather than someplace to work.
1) Definitely consider meds. They are not a true answer in a sense but they help you get back to homeostasis so you can rebuild yourself. Current regiment for me is Welbutrin 300mg (mood stabilizer, anxiety), Adderal 15mg XR (ADHD), Lamotrigine (bipolar).
2) Therapy is a recent change for me but I am finding it helpful. With my type A personality, I've decided that a cognitive behavioral therapist made sense to me as its more action oriented than just talking w/ someone. We setup tangible todos, monitor week to week, and spend time talking. One interesting thing in particular is working on coping methods on issues that don't have an immediate solution. Where I place my energy effectively makes a big difference.
3) As a manager, I have to say that a poor relationship w/ a manager is draining to say the least. A friend at Netflix recently made a major shift from a UI team to API over this. Have you looked into making a move internally or considered leaving? Being at FAANG, you have high potential to make a move at least horizontally.
4) It's helpful to identify triggers that give you feelings of depression or other bad feelings. It could be as simple as staying away from caffeine or lowering interactions with a particular person. Like your manager.
5) Easier said than done but this isn't an uncommon feeling for many. You're surrounded by talented people so imposter syndrome is not uncommon. I will bet 100% that you are better than you may realize.
6a) This one used to hurt to admit but not anymore. I am an average engineer at best. You start to realize later than it doesn't make as much of a difference as you'd think. Can you solve problems? Can you get to the finish line on your work and deliver consistently? Are you surrounded by people who can support you in growth? Your solutions don't have to be perfect as long as the support system and processes are there to create bumpers around you. Maybe you want to get to staff engineer but that is a decision and path you have to figure out. If you truly want to go deep, you're going to have to practice and grow. There is so many other options outside of that though.
6b) It can be tough to get to the finish line. Personally I've found that I need to prioritize and get my TODO list down to the most essential and dedicate my time to nothing but one activity at a time. With the addition of ADHD I bounce around a lot and fall into the same issue. Try to force your time into one activity in spurts and don't move onto until you get to the end. (Spurts are important so you don't burn out as you're already working to get to completion and it has been difficult.)
7) Take a break! Go burn some PTO. Get away from the computer.
My takeaway is that your environment is where this is most definitely stemming from. I highly suggest looking at a move. Do it for yourself. You shouldn't have to feel like this. Hope this helps in some way. I wish you the all the best. It can get better.
ps Don't let the stigma of mental health issues drive you away from getting help. The industry needs to be so much better about this.
Been doing it a decade, never going back.