HACKER Q&A
📣 jptboy

How do I learn more about entrepreneurship/startups?


I’m currently a fullstack dev at a big tech company in SV. I graduated college with a CS degree a few years ago and my friends and I want to potentially start a startup with are in the same boat. We understand that 90% of startups fail, but we want to try something new and we would be happy starting a self-sufficient small cash business.

I took an entrepreneurship class in college where we read the Lean Startup. My mental model of creating a startup is this. This could be completely wrong and probably is but it's the idea that I developed in my head in college. Steps could be out of order as well, and there might not be an order to these things.

1.Think of an idea/ find co-founders (starting a company with friends has risks)

2. Interview possible customers and see if this idea solves a great “pain” they are having. A “pain” for Patreons' customer would be that before Patreon existed it was hard to earn money from fans as a content creator.

3. See if enough people have this “pain” to even pursue the startup.

4. Make a financial model and figure out the business strategy and how the business will make money

5. Make an MVP/proof of concept and try to get customers that pay you on day 1

6. Grow/market and gain more customers??? No idea how this works

7. Secure funding or be self sufficient cash business? Pitch to VC/investor??? No idea about this

There is a lot of marketing, sales, financial modeling, and accounting that goes into this. My colleagues and I just know about tech (embedded/ systems, fullstack) and a little bit of entrepreneurship from the lean startup.

What's the most efficient resource to learn more about startups and these concepts? A buddy of mine from college whose startup recently got 200k in seed money told me to look at free videos/materials from incubators/accelerators. Are there any other books or resources Hacker News recommends? I’m probably wrong on a lot of what I think I know.


  👤 bumbada Accepted Answer ✓
Stop reading books, stop getting courses and start doing things.

Some people have tendencies to never learn from other people, and they make the same mistakes other people have done again and again.

Other people, like you (it is obvious), go the other way, they want to know everything and not fail ever. The way they do it is procrastinating, never getting in the arena or over the stage until they are 100% prepared. And they are never "prepared", because failing hurts emotionally.

You are like a skier that tries to avoid falling down so much he just can't learn.

I created my own business when I was a kid, it is not that hard, offer things or services people need or want. Someone with a CS degree can figure it out.

You need to get out in the real world and fail. Then you can read books and ask for advice. Now you will be able to calibrate all the info that you get from books and people in real scenarios. Without real world experience, most info is worthless.

Spend the minimum amount of time reading, you should be experiencing life and writing down those experiences. Writing every day is much better than reading every day. One in active, the other passive and looks like work but it is not.

Minimize passive things and activities in you life, like TV, until most of your life is active.

This man was a serial entrepreneur: https://steveblank.com/

Start getting more aggressive, learn from this man: https://www.john-carlton.com/

You look too "soft",a "wussy", learn resourcefulness in films from people that go to war. You look too weak for making a company and need to get stronger.

You need to develop some habits that make you stronger, like making decisions fast, dealing and handling the consequences. Get used to risk every day, manage it, minimize it.

You learn those things while doing and trying. Accept failure in your life, accept rejection by other people, accept the pain and over time you will master it.


👤 rwalling
If you want to learn the nuts and bolts of launching and growing a startup, we focus on doing that as a bootstrapped (or mostly bootstrapped) founders at https://microconf.com.

We've been around for a decade and we have in-person events, online events, an online Slack community with 2100+ founders, and around 300 videos at https://youtube.com/microconf that focus on the day to day decisions you have to make as a founder.

From ideation to validation to launch, growth, hiring, selling your startup, etc. Most of what we offer is free, and we support it by charging for tickets to our in-person events.


👤 recursive4
The best way to learn is to do because learning requires tight feedback loops.

You have more or less the correct idea with these steps, however they should be weighted (and continuously re-weighted as you progress).

I would add an additional step 0: commit to yourself that this is something you're going to see through. Do you want to start something because of a sense of FOMO or because you genuinely enjoy creating? Are you ready to quit your job and start, having the confidence in your tenacity? Importantly, your internal motivations will inform the amount of weight that should be put into each step.

For example, if you're building something to solve a problem that you yourself experience, steps 1 through 4 can be weighed at 0 and 5a (5 should be split into distinct parts) should be weighted at 1. Assuming the behaviors which give rise to your need are distributed, within the general population, on a bell curve and you fall somewhere within a standard deviation of the median, you are your average customer and don't need to prove the market ahead of time.

Overall, YC's advice to "build something people want" is spot on. Do that systematically and everything else is more likely to fall into place in spite of your weaknesses.


👤 lbotos
If you are a fullstack dev, I think you should learn a simple growth hack strategy that is helpful:

- Take your idea, build a simple UI (not the app at all, just the UI)

- Take that UI, and get a sign up modal on it

- Take that and run ads that point to it.

- See if you get enough conversions that justify you actually building the thing. What's that number for you? Dunno, but you'll learn quickly. And then you'll have a small mailing list of beta testers.

You can toil away and build a thing, or you can find an audience, and then build a thing that those people will pay for.

Everything will follow from that.

(or if you are going for a 'global scale' leveraged play -- you need to get users, cover the costs of the platform, and then get VC backing to figure out your monetization strategy)


👤 ozim
Sounds like you want to do a startup for having the startup.

You should watch "Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares", I am not joking.

People who fare the worst are the ones that want to have a restaurant because they want to have a restaurant for themselves or it is their childhood dream of some sorts.

If you have to think of an idea to setup business for it you are already at a losing position.

Go to create startup when you have an idea that you think is sooo good that you have to setup a business because otherwise you cannot go on with that idea. But don't just pursue finding that idea it should be something you can do better than other, something that you can provide as a service a lot easier than others could do.


👤 PragmaticPulp
> A buddy of mine from college whose startup recently got 200k in seed money told me to look at free videos/materials from incubators/accelerators.

Since this is your friend, I have a suggestion: Ask him how you can help with his startup for free. Obviously not huge tasks like building their entire backend or website, but any startup is bound to have loose ends that need more eyes. Maybe you can help test things or review copy or even work on bits of code here and there.

Getting exposure and proximity to a startup is the best way to learn how it works. The books and theory and videos are helpful, but nothing compares to actually seeing how messy and difficult these things are first hand. If your friend is going through the steps right now, having a front-row seat to see and help is perhaps the most valuable education you get possibly get. Doing little bits of free work for your friend is a small price to pay.

The steps you outlined sound great in theory, but in practice few successful startups come from people looking for random ideas, building a product, securing paying customers on day 1, and then collecting piles of investor money. It happens, but more commonly people gain industry experience first and then use that first-hand experience to solve problems they had in their own industry first and foremost. These startups aren't the Instagrams or Clubhouses of the world, but there are many startups solving real industry problems that you never see or hear about. Having that first-hand experience, or at least someone on your team with that first-hand industry experience, is crucially important.


👤 marto1
> 6. Grow/market and gain more customers??? No idea how this works

This is it. Forget everything else, this is the one that matters most for starting out. You can/will learn about most other things along the way.

For materials I'd start from Microconf's youtube channel.


👤 vegarab
Y Combinator's own StartupS chool (https://www.startupschool.org) is probably a good place to start.

👤 BobbyJo
Something I learned the hard way: You really need to be your own first customer. You need to solve a pain you have a deep understanding of, especially if you want investment from VCs. It's the only way you'll have the necessary credibility short of already having good traction or pre-existing relationships.

A 'good idea' isn't enough. Knowing and talking to lots of potential customers isn't enough. If you can't make big decisions with speed, clarity and confidence without outside input, you're dead.



👤 TameAntelope
A friend of my wife's in B-school once relayed the story about his time in the entrepreneur club there, and how it was just a bunch of people standing around talking about starting businesses.

He found it much more educational to start a business, and learn as he went.

So if you want to learn about startups, the fastest way is probably to start one.

My opinion on the second fastest way is to work at one; that's what I did/am doing as employee #1.


👤 pramodbiligiri
Your framework looks good enough and there’s lot of great advice on this thread already.

Have you considered narrowing down on a market segment? A segment could be an industry (banking, finance, e-commerce), or a delivery model (B2B SaaS, B2C SaaS, mobile apps) or a technology domain (ML, analytics, cryptocurrency, mobile). Depending on your skills and experience, you’re more likely to identify problems to be solved in a segment that you understand well.

Have you made stuff that people wanted, in the past? It could be a small app or library, or even a piece of writing that became popular because you anticipated what people needed and catered to it. If not, give that a try as it will force you to walk the customer discovery process in a concrete way.

The “org” and “business” parts should come much later if you’re a first time entrepreneur. Identifying a concrete customer pain point (even if small) and building a solution for it should be top of mind and occupying most of your mental bandwidth. Attention to other details should be only in service of that.


👤 aarongray
The grow / marketing step is the hardest part for technical folks and where most side projects fail in my experience. Building the product, figuring out if it makes sense financially, these kinds of things will probably be easy for you. Finding enough customers to make any meaningful amount of money is the killer. I would focus on answering that first.

👤 halfmatthalfcat
You will fail right out of the gate if you take #1 literally.

You do not *find*, you are *found* by an idea. Anything else and you're setting yourself for failure. I know it sounds esoteric but once you realize what it means to be found by an idea, you'll naturally start down the path of creating something cool.


👤 sky_rw
I have a somewhat contrarian perspective to your #1/2. Instead of starting with an idea, start with a market. Maybe even a problem in that market. Then go out and have as many conversations as possible with people in that market to really wrap your head around what problems they have and how they currently solve them. Only after that, start testing solutions to their problems to find marketable products or services. The 'idea first' mentality so often leads to confirmation bias.

Lastly, as a full-stack engineer who has made the transition into 'successful' full-time startup ceo, I advise to to focus less on the technology than on the sales and customer relationships. Tech skills will be your competitive edge, but personal relationships will be the foundation of the business.


👤 jkingsbery
Others have mentioned "learn by doing," which I think is absolutely necessary. At the same time though, it doesn't help if you start off doing it wrong, bringing assumptions about how a company works that are based on big-tech.

Having spent a decent chunk of my career at both start-ups and at a Big Tech company, there are lots of things that make sense to do at one that don't make sense at the other. As you make the move yourself (or, if you hire others, as you onboard people who are making that move), it's important to keep in mind how the risks are different between large companies and small companies. That probably doesn't answer your question directly looking for books or resources, but I think it's important to keep in mind as you consume books or resources.


👤 ghiculescu
Start your company with friends. Make something you all think will be cool. Starting a company with friends has risks, but so does anything worthwhile. It also has lots of upsides, like, you can trust them.

It sounds like you are trying to over optimise before stating. eg. worrying about what books to read, or about having a business plan and a financial model. These are distractions and they'll make you feel overwhelmed and not ready. I started my business with friends in college, it's still going 9 years on, and we did none of those things.

If you build something that's useful and you find people to pay for it, everything else will figure itself out in time.


👤 pbreit
I'd think less about "I want to start a startup" and more "I have a product idea that I think I can build, people will want and I can charge for it" and go from there.

If you want to learn about startups, best is to go work for one.


👤 cjblomqvist
Lots of great suggestions in other comments. An addition for a possible route; Join a startup as an early employee with proven founders. Looking back on my past 15 years of entrepreneurship, that had probably been a shortcut for me, not failing on as many simple things (even though I'd read, studied and tried lots of things, I still made in hindsight pretty "simple" mistakes).

Also; There are lots of different ways to start a startup. There's no "right way" (although a lot of generic thoughts that usually apply to most cases - ie see Blank)


👤 chrisgoman
Based on what you wrote here, you do not need to learn any more things by reading -- you need to start DOING. *EVERYBODY* will be happy with "starting a self-sufficient small cash business" but that is easier said then done and you will never get there until you do it. BTW, you may lose money also, that is entrepreneurship/startups so you are overthinking it. If you are risk-averse (aka you have to "learn more" before doing something) ... then entrepreneurship/startups may not be for you -- and that is OK

You are on the right path with the steps you outlined above but there is NO holy grail or "the path" (I'm sure you've read enough and all the paths are different) so everybody has 24 hours per day to do something so you just need to do "enough right things". The lean startup model is good because you do not have to wait for "funding" (may never come) and you can just start doing something.

You may have to fail a couple of times to get it right -- again, that is OK -- this is how entrepreneurship/startups. So the first thing you really need to get right is "Do I want to do this?" Entrepreneurship/startups is NOT a job where you get PAID to do X (and whether it works or not, you still get paid). This is a lot of ups-and-downs but mostly fun journey if you are ok with taking risks.

Good luck!


👤 ivos_android
You mentioned a sequence of steps, it's pretty good but I would always say start with the customer and their needs not your idea. Put the customer at the center.

As you probably know most businesses operate off of this structure. Customer wants a result so they use a mechanism(your idea or business). Focus on the finding a result that a customer wants that you can offer. Another way to look at it is customer, problem, solution, offer.

Also you don't have to raise capital if you don't want to. You could have customers pre-pay for your MVP before it's finished this also helps validate if people will buy your product/service.

Here are some resources. This consultant/coach has built multiple software companies. https://www.startfromzero.com/

https://www.eofire.com/

https://www.smartpassiveincome.com/podcasts/no-ideas-no-expe...


👤 cle
The overall steps are pretty good, but depending on your product and market they may be less or more important (or maybe completely irrelevant).

Honestly my advice would be to jump head-first into it, and learn as you go. Some up-front “theoretical” knowledge would be nice to avoid completely screwing up, and lots of other folks have linked to good reading material for that, but it’s a high risk and ambiguous environment where “best practices” don’t always apply. IMO your efforts should be focused obsessively on iteratively understanding your product market fit and your customers’ needs, rather than theorizing and trying to figure out up-front if existing advice applies to you or not, obsessing over competitors, etc. Those things can definitely help but should be constant feedback loops based on what you’ve done, and not super hypothetical.

Also prepare yourself for an emotional rollercoaster. That’s the hardest part in my experience, having the grit to keep going despite feeling awful or scared or incompetent (and all at the same time).


👤 SMAAART
> We understand that 90% of startups fail

Starting a startup is human activity, and you - the human - can have multiple activities, hence multiple start-ups (add to that pivoting). So while the 1st startup might fail, do it long enough and you'd be successful.

IMO the key is to work hard at MVP and iterate a lot.

Since you're here, have you thought of https://www.startupschool.org/ ?

As far as your point 1 to 7, not bad; I have a different approach but that's where we are all different. At the end of the day, if you build something that people want and are willing to pay (MVP/Lean Startup concepts) the money (investment) will follow.

Now, going from the garage stage to "#6. Grow/market and gain more customers??? " it's a different skillset; by the time you are there, you'll know more about your product offering, your audience, yourself and you'll have co-founders, early employees and investors to help you out.


👤 jimmyechan
Might want to check out some of pg's essays:

- How to start a startup: http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html

- Do things that don't scale: http://paulgraham.com/ds.html


👤 ThomPete
Create a small simple product/service, try everything you know and read about to see if you can make it successful.

If you succeeds try and sell the company sell or expand the business.

If not move on to another product, rinse and repeat.

It's not different than any other thing in this world. Start small, use your experience to gradually build bigger and bigger.


👤 collin128
#6 - our first 10 customers came from customer development interviews, then our next 10 were referrals from them, etc... (did this twice).

If you're not getting referrals then you may not be solving the problem or the problem isn't that valuable.

Once you have 10-20 customers from outside your network it's an early indication of product market fit.

Next, hire a full time marketing leader.

Over simplifying a little, here's a more product focused answer from a few weeks ago (the other answers in the thread were excellent): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27059370


👤 shoto_io
What you need is a "seller". You seem to be a "builder" type. Most successful businesses have a "seller" and "builder". Find someone with very strong marketing skills and tell him you build.

👤 the_arun

👤 jasfi
I'm planning a web app to help people with this. If you're interested in getting updates follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/jasonfi

👤 bradstewart
Get somebody who can sell. All of the points above where you say you have "no idea" are sales. Selling to customers, selling to investors.

Startups are more about sales than tech (most of the time).


👤 goatcode
Fail a bunch of times.

👤 petersonh
Have you checked out Indie Hackers?

https://www.indiehackers.com/


👤 mindcrime
Are there any other books or resources Hacker News recommends? I’m probably wrong on a lot of what I think I know.

Reading / studying The Lean Startup is good, but I recommend going back to the origin of the whole movement, and read The Four Steps to the Epiphany by @sgblank. It really is an amazing book that walks through the process of starting a business, and explains the "Customer Development" process in excruciating detail. If you take nothing away from it, it will (hopefully) be the idea that a startup is all about search. Not "search" as in "web search" but "search" as in searching for a business model, market, distribution channels, promotional activities, etc. that work. Especially note the iterative aspect, and how the choice to "pivot" should occur in response to specific indicators, and isn't just some random whim that prompts a change of focus.

Another book I like is The Art of the Start by Guy Kawasaki. You might find it worth a read.

I also recommend Alan Kay's video series on "How to Invent the Future" which can be found on Youtube.

1.Think of an idea/ find co-founders (starting a company with friends has risks) 7. Secure funding or be self sufficient cash business? Pitch to VC/investor??? No idea about this

That's a reasonable approximation of the idea, but again, note that iterations are part of the process. And it's a little bit more structured than that. Here's an example of what I mean:

Where you say "See if enough people have this “pain” to even pursue the startup." I would argue that that's incomplete. The question isn't only "do enough people have this pain" but also

1. Does the "thing" I'm proposing to build solve the pain?

2. If it does, does the customer value solving that pain enough to pay money for the solution?

3. How much will they pay?

4. Given the answer to (3) above, and my cost of developing and distributing the solution, can this be done profitably?

And that's before you get into the other questions you're trying to answer during the CD process like:

What channels do my customers learn about solutions like this from?

Should this be a purely self-serve / transactional sales model on a SaaS model with credit card payments, or is this a high-touch, direct-sales kind of thing?

What's the distribution channel that works for this "thing" and these customers? Maybe I need to sell through a VAR or System Integrator instead of direct.

Blah, etc. etc...


👤 nelsonic
YCombinator YouTube is a great place to learn: https://www.youtube.com/c/ycombinator/videos?view=0&sort=p&f...

👤 asdev
know your strengths, and find a partner to cover your weaknesses. then just start building and do-ing

👤 Protostome
you become one.. no class book or mentor can give you the real experience