How can I stay gainfully employed when I just want to “coast” as a SWE?

I've been noticing this too. Everyone wants to hire an ambitious go-getter who aspires to become Top Hotdog Ultra Tech Lead or CEO someday. I just want to make the websites go until I retire. I'm not looking to become a millionaire or retire early. I look over at my friends who became Mechanical Engineers. They have better lives. They have time for their families. They generally work 9-5 like Mad Men. I wonder what went wrong in our industry where that isn't possible.

I think the solution is to give in and become the monster. Become hyper-ambitious like everyone else and try to become CTO of a midsize startup by the time you're 40 or whatever. Or "drop out" and retrain as a mechanical engineer.

Look at traditional firms, banks, public, utilities. IBM, GE, BofA, state/federal.

Skill in niche areas where everyone else is at retirement age (mainframe integration stacks/web). Everything else is chasing flavor-of-the-month and you’ll work 60 hours just to keep a resume current. Expect to have to lead a team or move into architecture at some point.

Traditional firms will blow smoke about innovation, tell them you want to work on an MS or MBA at nightschool or something attractive to an interviewer and then stall until you figure out the org and find a place to camp.

At least in the Bay Area, there are plenty of jobs like this, even outside banks and such.

Many companies that's been around for 20 years have bazillion pieces of unexciting software they need to support and maintain. They still need full time employees to keep them running.

Want an example? Adobe Sign. Here is a product that they can never stop supporting. The software doesn't need more features, but they still need security updates and maintenance.

Just pick a big, old technology company and browse the job listings. Look for "old school tech", like Java EE. Just add it on your resume and say you worked with it a long time ago. Boom, an interview.

edit: Scripting languages like PHP or Ruby will also have lots of legacy software around them. But Java software being "enterprise-y", tend to die off less frequently, and people there seem treated better than legacy PHP programmers.

edit2: In a large company, there will be boring, maintenance areas, and exciting areas. Try to interview with boring teams, since that is your goal.

Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Adobe in any way. It's just an example I know outside of my own work. We have examples too, but that would be too revealing.

Become a software QA test automation guru. The technology change is slower, and the expectations and problems are more predictable. In the testing world, your skills will stand out more. You won't be expected to reinvent the world, just to keep things working reliably. You'll be compared to other folks who punch the clock. Don't get me wrong, I have a deep of love automation, and QA, but culturally, you will find proportionately more who treat coding as a job rather than a passion in that role, but you'll still get paid for your abilities.

Old-timer here (I started on COBOL). I like programming; and I like 9-5. I suck at management. I tried running my own business, but I sucked at that too. I'm not a bad programmer, but I'm certainly not elite.

You want 9-5, and you don't want a boss, so permatemping seems to be one of your few choices. I was never that keen on having a boss; but I liked getting a reliable salary.

I have learned and adopted several programming systems (languages, if you like) over the years. One by one they were abandoned by their manufacturer, and I had to learn something new. I reckon it takes at least 6 months to get good at a new language.

By the time I was about 50, I noticed a trend for novel frameworks and languages to pop up with increasing frequency - more than one every 6 months. I found this increasingly teedious. By age about 60, I was no longer motivated to learn these new tricks, because they weren't going to be any use to me for more than a couple of years.

So: I concur with other commenters about taking up a job as a maintenance programmer on a codebase written in something unfashionable. PHP has always been unfashionable, and there's loads of PHP that isn't going anywhere and needs maintaining. You have PHP skills; consider Drupal. Plugging modules together to make Drupal websites is not challenging; but if you learn Drupal internals, you can be better than most Drupal "developers", and get jobs maintaining Drupal systems. Unfortunately, it takes time to get that level of Drupal competence.

Your "blue-collar" attitude is out-of-sync with modern software development. Nowadays developers are expected to be able to sell, teach, invent, write clearly, all the while avoiding antagonising people, as well as develop software.

Perhaps you could find a partner, with similar levels of ambition to your own, but with talents that complement yours, and set up shop together as a web-design agency. You need a production pipeline that enables you to build sites quickly and reliably. Your partner needs to have sales skills (it doesn't sound as if you do).

You don't want a boss; so I guess getting a job as a paid hack in a small web-development outfit is out of the question. But not all bosses are awful. And in a small firm, you might find that your experience makes a big difference to them, and that you are valued.

You sound a bit depressed. If that's true, I'm sorry. Things will improve. Good times and bad times are both temporary.

The only employment I know of where you can "coast" - have a decent life without working too hard - are the skilled trades. They're in demand (not enough workers), but they don't really change. Think Plumbing, Electrical, etc.

If you go the hard labor route you will break your body eventually and need that retirement or pension. So plan ahead.

If you go the management route you're in good shape for employment and retirement (people don't really change), but you usually have to start by being good at whatever you're managing.

You have chosen a career with high rates of change and disruption, but you're hoping to avoid changing and being disrupted. This is not a winning solution. You may be able to survive for a few years in a lagging employer (large boring corporations, government agencies, certain non-technical family businesses). But eventually, the disruption will come for you too, and you'll find that your cushy job has disappeared and you've been replaced by a $10/mo SaaS.

You need to change something. You can upgrade your mindset to work in a high-churn industry or you can shift your skills and expectations to a low churn industry. But I guarantee it won't get any easier as you get older.

One time I got an offer to be some small company's (it wasn't a tech company) tech guy that would maintain their PHP website and probably do tech support for employee's PCs. I was really hating my work back then, but if I had taken that offer it would've been a career dead-end, a relaxing job but nothing challenging or exiciting, and I would've probably been too lazy to move since I'm not very ambitious either.

Are you in the US? The Europe/UK work culture might suit you better.

Also a weird tip is change jobs every 2 to 3 years. Companies tend to get less cushy and more process oriented over time. Find the company that isn’t measuring time on tasks etc.

Salesforce.com, NetSuite, SAP or another CRM/ERP specialistion. You're pretty much engineering for business people. You'll go to conferences, make bank (for the time being at least), be given formal training and live a pretty decent 9-5 with lots of job prospects. And being older, you'll be preferred as you've got more corporate/business/people experience.

You sound like me there buddy. Blue collar upbringing and got into tech. The culture shock is weird and off putting. Never seem to fit in either I take it? You have the leg up on me with that whole college thing.

I cant advocate for sticking around salarymen. Never worked for me. Maybe for you with some changes, but that's beyond me.

My advice, quit "freelancing" and start "contracting". Pretty much, start a firm. It's a bigger mental shift than you may expect. This is how you get the bigger projects and big career gains. You find a lot of interesting and good relationships in the business that way. Also, there are a lot more blue collar types who own/run mid to large companies than you might imagine. I was surprised for sure, I can say that much at least.

If you dont want to take that big of a step, try partnering with complimentary firms as a contractor. I used to work with 2 different design firms along with a few small clients of my own. Approach them casually about what you can offer and if a project arises, you'll be glad to give a quote.

Last thing that worked for me, but I didnt pursue as much as I should have was independent products. Build your own software or some product to sell. It does become a job in it's own right, but it's on your terms, not someone elses.

Essentially, I dont think you'll be happy trying to identify as a salaryman programmer, which is what the industry is forcing you into. Your job doesn't define you, which is good, but you're in the wrong positioning if you think working for someone else will agree with your philosophy. You need to start striking out on your own and do you're own thing to find any form of life work balance.

What also helps, do dev outside of the tech industry. Buddy and I got into concrete and I'm the tech and research side of the company. I'm happy with what I do and know very well I'd be miserable in the tech industry, because I already tried it.

Work as a contractor. Go to dice.com and upload your resume. I have never felt more solidarity with the workers. We fuck around all day, smoke breaks, ping pong, etc. It’s a solid 90k/year minimum. Yes it’s temp, doesn’t have long term potential, but if you’re a US citizen they don’t have the same control over you. If you get fired, there’s a million more contract roles. These contracting companies are often exploiting legal realities where hiring US citizens lets them get more visas. There is even the concept of “sitting on the bench” while they try to place you in a company. My friends have literally “sat on the bench” (ie, stay at home, do nothing, and get full pay) for 6-12 consecutive months.

Get a job with big company, government or a government contractor. The key is to look for places where it’s a career, not a job. You’ll make a little less cash, but usually get better benefits or pension depending on where you are.

The risk of these jobs is you still need to focus on your craft, and the temptation to slag off is real. If you take this path, be the expert at your thing, teach others, etc.

It sounds like you are looking for a 9 to 5 job, which are quite plentiful in the SE industry. As others have said, look at governments and established larger companies.

Re: your comment about places looking for ambition and a “story”. Honestly I would recommend you fake it till you get in. Many HR departments in large organizations try find people that meet a certain stereotype but their decisions are often completely removed from the team you would be placed in. This means that you can project an ambitious career personality but once you get in you can start coasting. I would encourage you to try reframe your career and achievements into a narrative that suits what HR is looking for.

There are plenty of jobs like that, and many of these create actual value. You might want to consider some jobs in Europe, as they have awesome work life balance or target something outside the big cities.

Look for anything that requires certification. For example, there's an interesting career track where you can get a Huawei gold certification and then travel all around the world assembling UI for billion dollar companies that just want to show video on demand. It's very routine work, and most ambitious people don't like it because growth is linear. But it pays bloody well.

I'm sure Google etc have similar tracks for people who want to set up or sell Google Maps and the like.

Find a company where the other engineers are doing the same.

You’ll basically be fighting fires and not doing anything truly useful and/or intellectually challenging though. If you are an average engineer, you might even seem like a rockstar there.

Alternatively, go work in Europe, where coasting is basically a given in any non high growth startup.

Sounds like you’re looking for a government job, or a government contractor job. The bar in that domain is fairly low and the benefits and work/life balance are good, but it usually comes with certain lifestyle expectations (no drugs, in some cases passing a rigorous background check for security clearance).

take a look at state/federal government jobs. im not saying there arent plenty of people working in government who are climbing the ladder and moving up, just that there are plenty of people who are coasting the way you describe. i live in the dmv area, and know many of them in both directions.

Look into salesforce.com certification and jobs. Those roles are very close to what you’re describing.

If you want something, you have to work for it. There's a certain degree of coasting you can get at jobs, but you need to do the upfront work of studying certain technologies and preparing for a certain position.

You don't need military grade discipline, but you need some.

Better to hammer then coast imo. You build up knowledge that lets you coast later, and also street cred so your extended team knows you can do a good job. But you just take the foot off the gas and then crank for 2-3 hours at a time and that’s it.

Have you considered getting a software job at a bank or insurance company?

I was thinking writing title in my linkedIn profile "Not 10x developer just plain old average John Doe developer". I agree with your sentiment here

One word: Academia

Government. I hated it. You'll love it.

Get a government software job.

There are a few things at play, and they are important.

The first is technology is a moving target. Contrasting it with let's say house painting, or plumbing. Painting today is the same job it was 5 years ago, and the same job it was 10 years ago. If you were great a painting a house then, you'll still be great a painting a house now. If a corporate company hires you to paint their new construction, you'll provide consistent value. No real expectation of growth.

The tech industry on the other hand, is constantly changing. If you're valuable at what you do now, if you learn nothing new, in 5 years without growth you'll be less valuable. Technology will have moved on, your skills will be less relevant. Sometimes it's in important ways (there are new more efficient ways of doing things and you didn't learn them so you're less productive on relative terms), other times in unimportant ways (a new fad came along that is no better than the previous fad, but you don't know it). Unfortunately almost nobody in tech really knows what is a valuable better technology, and what is just a fad until many years have gone by, so the (faulty) assumption is that most are valuable and so people should learn them.

The other part of this problem, is that at most companies (and definitely at FAANGs) someone fresh out of school for their first year at a company is essentially a net negative for the company. The work you do (value you provide) is for the most part worth less than sum of the money you make, the bugs you introduce, the time from other people you need for help. Maybe is 6mos maybe it's 12, but overall it's net negative. Companies know this and accept it because as you learn and gain skills you eventually become "worth" the investment.

The other problem is an issue in the industry. There is a ton of money to be made in it, so there is somewhat of a prolonged gold rush. As a result of the money to be made, and potential . If you're a 10% better plumber, you get the pipes unclogged 10% faster and not much difference. If you're 10% better programmer, you deliver your software sooner, take over the market and the company earns 10x the money. This essentially means people overwork themselves for effectively no reason, but the culture hasn't caught on to it.

But there is a flip side of this. So many people came up in this new industry, in this environment that they don't realize they aren't being rewarded for those extra hours. If every employee works 60hrs per week instead of 40, salaries don't go up by 50%, you just split the same pie, while making the company more money.

Finally, as the industry matures, it will. Because software is such a growing industry, every year more people graduate into it than the year before. So the industry is still very bottom heavy by age ranges. People just out of school, with little obligations and excited spent way more time working long hours and being willing to sacrifice life for work. By the time get some years in he industry, start having family and kids they realize they aren't getting the tradeoff they want and can scale back a bit.

But fundamentally it's this. A career in technology (unlike other professions) requires keeping up with technology. You absolutely can do it, given the fact you've stayed in the tech world now for so many years shows that you're capable of it. The question is do you want to continue with it? It doesn't mean you have to be super-ambitious, but it does mean you need to keep up with the moving landscape.

My advice would be this: let's say you have 10 years experience a freelancing. But overall development you're likely equal with someone who has been developing skills and is mid-career (ex 3-5 years).

Try applying for jobs requiring 3-5 years experience only, and be straightforward. Say you' had been freelancing and stopped focusing on skill development. There were some areas where you feel you haven't developed as well as you'd like to. So for this job you think there are some aspects you'll be overqualified for, others you'll be right on target, but you're ok with that as you want to use it to round out your skillset, and get back to growing and developing.

And then do that. Good luck!

Find another field where you're happier. Chasing money isn't worth it.

OK I'll bite,

Sigh....

I wrote this and have reread it multiple times, I know it wont be a popular comment but it still needs to be said as "Get your head out of ass" is too simple of a response. So here goes...

You have never had a full-time job, and don't consider yourself very ambitious. You haven't saved anything for retirement and You just want to coast through life? Like Your Dad did? Maybe ask him?

I don't have many ideas other than keep doing what your doing or get a tent and move to a park, or crime until You get locked up. I understand that some states have three strike laws so there's that.

On a more positive note, if You are currently just part time freelancing then You probably have some spare time to try out other ventures until You find one that works, or just keep trying to get more likes and shares for your social media and a higher ranking in what ever mmorpg your currently winning at instead of winning at LIFE, which is the ultimate RTS game.

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