I’m sitting here in my bedroom looking at a book I’ve been meaning to finish for months, but it’s complex enough that when I start working on the next chapter, I get a quarter of the way through it and have to put it down, because I just dont “get it” when I feel this way.
Across from me is my desk, with a computer where somewhere on it, is a half built personal website I was using as a way to teach myself web development. But when I open it up and start working on it, I feel like I’m missing that spark that makes the right connections to learn new things like JavaScript objects and how they work.
I have Duolingo on my phone, which I complete in spurts lasting 2 or 3 days then I drop for maybe a week or so, even though I know it’s only “10 minutes a day”. If I do it now, I won’t remember most of it tomorrow.
My job isn’t particularly demanding. It’s average. I don’t work more than maybe 8-9 hours a day on stuff that I understand most of but still have a chance to learn new things. My point is it’s not like it’s a brutal work culture at all.
I even exercise mid day or after work (depending on how busy I am) which is proportioned to give one energy, not take it away.
But yet at the end of the day, I’m just beat.
How do you find the motivation to do the things you genuinely enjoy, when you’re too wiped out to do them?
Is this normal?
1. Work on your hobbies _before_ your actual work (or when you feel rested the most).
Don't spend all of your "prime time" in your job. In the morning, when I am rested and focused, I dedicate the first one or two hours of the day to work on my things. Of course this pushes my schedule and I finish work later, but at the end it feels like an accomplished day. There's no feeling of guilt because you "only worked on your job". This of course only applies if you have a flexible job.
2. You cannot do everything at once.
I had very similar goals as you in the beginning of the year. I was trying to write posts for my blog, learn my partner's language, study for the Terraform associate exam, and exercise daily. All combined with a moderately demanding job. We simply cannot have that many things in our buffer. Try to focus on what's more urgent or important for you. Do one or two things at a time.
For a person to do something, there are two components: 1) motivation, and 2) activation. Activation is how "easy" it is to get going. Activation has an aspect of mental state to it, and an aspect of engineering (e.g. many dark design patterns work by reducing the activation needed to do what the designer wants you to).
People with ADHD need much more activation than the usual person to get going. So, a common refrain is "I must be lazy, because I can't bring myself to do the things I care about". Once an ADHD person is over the activation hump though, they face a different challenge: stopping. Stopping in a timely fashion is necessary for good health (need to sleep, and eat), and consistent progress (doing a little bit every day is much better than "a lot" one day in two months).
But, whether you have ADHD or not, don't discount the impact of the $$$ spent engineering various services so that they require as little activation as possible. I'm not yet sure what the solution to this is, but I think being aware of the activation/motivation distinction is a good first step to eventually reaching a solution.
I think there's been some research that professional/thinking jobs can be as taxing on someone as hard labor like construction. Your brain needs time to relax, decompress, and wander. You have a stable job and free time after work to do whatever you want. This is part of being human - your hierarchy of needs is mostly complete, I assume.
Set all of those things aside for now (book, duolingo, web-dev, etc.) Just chill. Don't treat hobbies or recreational activities like work. The interest in them will come back to you naturally. If it doesn't then were you really that interested? Or was there some observation of others falsely creating a desire?
If one of your interests is career related (web-dev), seek out time during your work day to further your career. Sneak it in if your employer won't allow it.
I mean I understand you but sometimes not every seconds needs to be inside "utility function". Again you need strip out every assumption, belief about life that society has inscribed on your mind. Trust me, you will feel the same once you become Google CEO too. There is no "this is enough" point in future.
- Work on things that interest you. Sounds simple, but a lot of people screw this one up. They'll work on things they think they're supposed to be working on, or they'll brainstorm the most lucrative ideas they can think of and work on those. For most people, this kills motivation. Give yourself a treat and work on that thing you're curious about but that other people think is a waste of time.
- Drink a sugary beverage. This one runs counter to all modern dietary advice, but was my secret technique for a good number of years. Next time you have an idea you want to work on but it feels impossible to focus, try downing a can of soda. Thank me later.
- Create a productivity playlist. This was my other secret technique. This can be as simple as a single album that you leave on repeat while you work. Doesn't matter if it has lyrics or whatever. Just needs to be something that your brain is extremely familiar with. If you do this often enough, listening to that music can help you get back in the zone when you're out of it.
- Finally, go easy on yourself. Peaks and troughs are common. If you're in a trough, give yourself space to relax and do nothing, and have faith that the motivation will return one day soon.
1. I think it's normal yeah. Social media and advertising make us think everyone else is a super achiever but that's mainly nonsense. Us modern humans are over-stimulated mentally to an extent that would have been unrecognisable to our ancestors. We're not adapted to be thinking, talking, reading, studying, watching things all day. It would be exhausting to not sit down all day right? The mind isn't so different. Find ways to enjoy doing nothing. Could be meditation, gentle slow yoga, listening to some quiet music, nothing too mentally taxing. Your mind needs time to idle and reset, it's almost like your mind's 'garbage collection" kicks in and clears out the junk. It can't be processing all the time. Take time for being, it's incredibly restorative.
2. I'm a big believer in hobbies. As a father of two very young children my time is limited to I rely on the little and often approach. Don't knock the power of small daily incremental practice. I've made good progress with programming and piano in this way from very little time.
3. Doing non "thinking" hobbies is also important to me. I'm a bit addicted to over-thinking (like many of us I suspect) and something like piano is a counterforce to that. Find fun hobbies that you do for the pure intrinsic joy.
4. Assuming like many of us you're a covid home worker, don't knock the massive effect this has had. All of my colleagues seem to be feeling burnout to one degree or another. Again self care and self compassion are key here.
5. Check in with your doctor. You might have a deficiency, maybe you have a bit of low lying depression or something like that. Very common in both cases but it's good to seek help just to eliminate these things.
- Go to bed early and get enough sleep [For me this is the most important point]
- Drink enough water
- Eat a balanced diet
- Cut back on processed sugar
- Cut back on caffeine (or completely stop)
- Exercise, but don't overdo it if you want to save some energy for projects
- Block yourself from wasting time on social media
- Limit your consumption of "news"
- Cut out TV
- Lastly, if you haven't taken time off work in a while, take a week or so off
Step 2:
- Reevaluate
The website and the book have successfully distracted you from the TV for a while. Now they're making you feel bad. That's not the function of a hobby. Maybe it's time to find something else.
If you’re productive for 8-9 hours a day, you’re effectively working more that full time, and that’s where your energy goes away.
Are you able to do some of your project work at work. Included in this is building an internal web based application for your customers/users, automating things. I built things at work and home while learning the Java Spring Framework for example.
I also worked on stuff during my commute on the bus to and from work.
I find I have to stop working on a computer by 9pm or I won't sleep that night.
There's heaps of things I can't get done in a day or put off as I'm too tired. Trying to reduce TV consumption and social media consumption can help!
That is the problem right here. Stop beating yourself up. Everybody is lazy. All these people having sideprojects make 90% of a months progress on 1 weekend or a single day they have off from work.
For me it helped to spend less time on HN.
Regarding hobbies: They should be fun first and foremost. Don't focus on the progress. Focus on having an easy and relaxing time.
Self-improvement is not a hobby.
I mean building websites might be a hobby.
Just not when it is "to teach myself web development."
There's nothing wrong with learning in your spare time in lieu of a hobby. Indeed it's good. Even better if you recognize that's what you are doing. And best when you realize that there is no rush. No deadline.
Getting older improves pattern matching. Sometimes you will read voraciously. Other times there will be GTA-V and the South Park back catalog...so to speak.
You've got the rest of your life to finish that book. Hopefully it's Knuth. But TikTok is ok in the now.
Good luck.
It's also taxing. I am one of these people. I don't have responsibilities in my life outside of work, so I have infinite time to do what I want. That also means I have less time to do what others want, which makes making friends outside of programming and other demanding careers difficult. Additionally, it requires a myriad of maturity processes; you will have to learn to flip a switch of perspective between work code and hobby code so as to maintain a healthy separation. Hobby code should be fun at the end of the day, or it's not a hobby anymore.
I've learned to decompress hard rather than gradually. I'll go ride my bike and push myself for an hour, I'll soak in the tub, and then pick up my journal that has all the notes from my hobby code in it.
I do not buy into extended work activities any more. I lead development teams, but I started cutting out all extracurricular activities at work so as to reserve my time for me. Understand that even with people at work you are bound by a contract, by all means fulfill that contract but don't give things to a profit machine for free. This significantly cut down the energy-spending-spin-cycle I found myself in at work. I'm a person that's happy to help people to learn and grow, but if I make myself too available I spread myself so thin that I make no room for me.
Hope this helps.
Currently, i've been working on a side project for months now, but i remember it took me years to get started. The essence of how i did start was to take a weekend, bang out a basic proof of concept that had occurred to me, then over time add to it, even in small ways. fix a bug here, add a view there, model data this way, etc.
It's less about energy and more about motivation. Some people would say discipline, but if you're exhausted, you're exhausted, and to push harder would only damage your resolve (IMO). It's an emotional energy thing more than physical energy, so in combination with other suggestions on here (like do it in the morning not the evening), take some time (off or the weekend, etc) to get momentum on a hobby or project (dev env setup takes at minimum a day in many cases), and then put in tiny steps or amounts of energy over time.
You'll be surprised how far you can go once you're moving.
1. Acknowledge that passive media consumption is actually not that interesting to me and just turn off the TV. Or when watching TV sometimes look at tutorials etc for the technologies you are trying to learn. If you find a good teacher this can be very entertaining too.
2. Have 2 Projects - 1 is permanent and the thing you actually want to achieve. The other is dynamic, meaning you can just switch to something else if you feel like exploring a new technology.
3. Give talks on some basic topics. Expectations are not high, but you are forced to learn it so that you can prepare the talk in time. Also this is very rewarding and efforts are very predictable.
People find/make time for the things they want to do (for their hobbies). Hobbies are typically enjoyed, if you’re not enjoying things, try something else?
I have a dozen books I’m “currently reading.” Sometimes I finish three or four books while still only 20 pages into another. Reading also compounds (the more you read, the more you can read—and understand).
Maybe a good audio book for you would be Atomic Habits. Maybe you can start with doing something you enjoy for just 10-20minutes a day, consistently. Consistency compounds.
If you could pick something to do after work that is not TV, and that you WOULD feel like getting up and doing, what would that be? Maybe a game of tennis with a friend?
I rarely have motivation to do stuff after work. I tend to just push myself to do stuff, which ends up sucking the fun out of it. I think it mostly stems from being discontent with my job - I see people with higher pay, interesting problems, respect, etc. I feel like I'm just treading water and have no career options, but am required to support my family. I figure I'll have a major cardiovascular event in the next decade and it won't be my problem anymore - persist until you don't exist.
After a long period of depression a few years ago, I started running. I had never done this before. The first few runs I would have negative, depressing self talk, like how I am failing to live up to my potential and will probably continue to fail because life is hard and what's the point. Then after a few weeks I began to have self respect. The self talk was positive. Then after a few months the self talk turned to rage. An angry father figure archetype in my head yelling at me for every mistake.
While running one day, I realized: the self talk doesn't matter. All that matters is that I don't quit.
It doesn't matter how you feel, it matters what you do.
It doesn't matter that you don't want to get up earlier, it just matters if you do it.
It doesn't matter if your not motivated if you just don't quit.
For me, I put myself through painful things because not doing that is more painful. I hold myself to a high standard and am hard on myself when I don't achieve my goals. Bright light. Dark shadow.
Over the past decade of this, I have bounced between the poles of this spectrum: highly motivated, working a lot, and irritable, arrogant... Unmotivated, weak, tired, bored, kind... At this point I have learned to navigate and manipulate my emotional state such that I am stable over a long term.
The place where you are in, to me, has one clear solution: rage. Internally focused anger has always brought me out of depression. It is not something I choose, it arises slowly over long periods of failure. Many people who fail for a long time will let their anger spill out into the world, wasting their only chance to change themselves. Instead, you must keep the target of your rage on yourself, the part of you that has failed and will continue to fail.
Your better than him, aren't you?
If you are serious with your inquiry, you will examine yourself and seek the truth - to understand why you are not driven to pursue the things you say you want to pursue. And a solution will emerge.
As for the one who has true desire, there is no choice but to pursue the thing he desires and to do them as if life dependent on them; as if there was no tomorrow.
I don't recommend going without healthy amounts of sleep or pushing oneself beyond healthy capacity. Yes, we grow by stretching and pushing, that's not quite what I mean. I have CFS now and one of my top few ideas as to the cause was pushing too hard for years without enough sleep (seems like many famous people got less sleep, so I was determined; but the cause of CFS is really still unknown).
If motivation is really the issue, there are other HN threads with that in their title. (at least on duckduckgo one can do a title search for a site, I believe.)
And sometimes ... I have had to learn the hard rule that we have to be patient, we just can't do all that we want to do in the timeframe we want (hence the prioritization by purpose etc, per above). But I believe life does not end at death and we can continue to learn, grow, and progress, which helps tremendously for me to not worry about the things I can't do right now.
All the best to you!
For other hobbies (roleplaying games and board games mostly) I do manage to make time, but they require some planning and commitment that they didn't need when I was younger.
Computer games go through cycles where they feel pointless and then become more interesting in. The game I once started writing over a decade ago hasn't been worked on for years.
You should question if you really are enjoying those things or rather pretend to. If you were really enjoying them you wouldn’t ask how to get started doing them (which is procrastination) but would do anyway.
My solution would be to take some real rest (i.e. a nap and no TV) before doing anything else.
Little by little, one at a time, I reduced my upkeep expenses, until I could reduce my paid work, first to part-time, then to nothing!
These days, I live completely off my personal work. Doing it the fregan way, I accept no direct financial contribution, and instead accept housing, Internet access, web hosting, etc. from supporters.
I can't say it was a comfortable transition, but I've made other transitions in my life before, and those were not easy either. I had some guidance, which I didn't always follow well, and I was still able to do it.
I would recommend this route to anyone with a clear goal in mind and predisposed to spiritual, meditative, minimal, ascetic, and slow lifestyle.
It is possible and even likely that you are using up all of your focus time each day on your day job.
Also, for a lot of people, this quantity reduced a lot over the last few months or half year: it’s been a long and stressful and uncertain year, full of unexpected sacrifices for everyone in society, to varying degrees. It’s okay to feel exhausted and drained given the circumstances of the pandemic.
PS: duolingo isn’t a good way to learn a language even if you somehow manage to be super-diligent about using it.
First, think about what exactly you want to do and why it's important to you. Dedicate real time to think about it without distractions.
Example can be, you want to learn French. Imagine you never learn French in your lifetime, is it ok? Why not? Try to approach motivation from many angles to understand is it yours or you want to do it because of some sort of advertisement (social media, YouTube and so on).
Second, think about you daytime. What you spend you time on and how much energy each action takes. Then ask yourself, what you can do to dedicate your focus on thinks that really matter to you?
It's all about taking time, asking right questions to yourself, questioning established routines/thinking patterns.
Read the book or just read up on the cue, routine, reward loop and how it can be hacked to change habits or form new ones. The author also goes into detail about how to build up your willpower, which will also help immensely.
You've probably formed habits that have been reinforced over time that are detrimental to your goal of working on hobbies. This book can help change that.
It's not that fun to read a complicated, dense book.
It's not that fun to learn a language, in fact it's one of the hardest things for your brain.
It's not that fun to make a personal web site that's basically going to end up being a LinkedIn profile.
For me, I do have a side hobby. I built a tool to make grids of peoples' photos into posters that I sell on Etsy, things like people's photos of them visiting each national park. It's a weird hobby but the fact that I'm actually selling something was a big motivator for me. I love making sales -- even though I've done less than $100 total so far.
I switched to consulting work so I could dedicate a week a month to work on non paying open source work that makes me happy.
http://mindingourway.com/guilt/ helped me to discover my intrinsic motivation. But you might end up doing something else instead of your original hobby.
The next step is a bad one - you actually have to turn the television off, it won't do it for you.
I think also you may be a bit overwhelmed by all the things you feel you should be doing, to the point you don't want to do any of them. So try to forget about them for a while.
Take walks in your neighborhood. Try to notice something that has changed, or is still the same.
In a few weeks maybe the mood will strike to have a cup of tea, and do some reading. Maybe not, maybe next week you'll learn something new.
As for me I spotted that magnesium intake boost my energy. Checked blood before and it was not low and with taking supplements it's not high, but I feel difference in my mood, anxiety and energy.
Also don't forget to talk with your doctor. Good luck!
The Pomodoro Technique is super helpful when you need to get some momentum and just plow through stuff. Also check out the book Mini Habits by Stephen Guise. It is a great technique for building momentum.
See if you can shift your workouts to the morning. You'll start the day refreshed and the workday is natural recover time. After work you will have time and energy and even take a nap if you please.
The definition of a hobby is something that you do because it's fun, not for some self improvement goal. You don't seem to enjoy exercising either from how you describe it.
Drop all and try some fun activities instead, until you find one that you actually like. That should clean up your brain.
Also your 'personal website' project seems lame. Build a SaaS startup and get customers - providing a potentially useful service will give you purpose more than a website that doesn't matter if anyone visits.
The first month I spent gaming, but now my projects advance more quickly. At least one whole day can be dedicated to my projects. Also, a day off a week is 52 days of holiday a year.
If you are able to, I recommend it wholeheartedly.
The thing that worked most for me was not forcing myself to do something just because I think I should do it. Theres loads of things I want to do, read books, work on side projects, learn something new and play games.
Accepting that I just don't have the energy to do all the things I want to do and to forgive myself for the guilt of not doing them. The minute I started (started - I'm not there yet!) I found I was actually doing more of those things because I'd taken the pressure off.
I've basically decided to do what I feel like when I have spare time and to not seek perfection. Working on a side project recently and releasing it (to my mind unfinished) was a challenge but because of that that project exists and isn't on my list anymore. It had been on there for over two years.
I also go to a lot of effort to prepare the tasks for myself for if the mood strikes but I don't have that initial setup energy. I might not want to read a book now but I can decide which book or game will come next when that time comes. It reduces the cognitive load and decision fatigue.
Same with learning something new I have a list of things to learn and timeboxing in a small topic to an hour lets me complete the task and feel some accomplishment. Theres also that thing where if you leave a task unfinished you're more motivated to finish it another time - but that just makes me get up at 2am and go finish it..your mileage may vary.
Another good thing to do is use an app like toggle to track where your hours go. I found I only really get 4 really good hours of concentration in a day so I optimise my day to do those 4 exceptional hours of work and then the other 4 I spend preparing for the next 4 hours of focus work. If I force myself to spend 8 hours working I just don't do a good enough job and I end up burnt out.
I very rarely find myself watching tv anymore I realised how much stress it was adding to my life. During lockdown I've stopped watching new series and instead stick to the same few series that I know don't have any of those stressful cliffhangers which will make me watch for hours on end. I also only watch tv if I'm certain my brain is mush but I'm not sleepy. If I'm sleepy I will go to bed, maybe I'll put on an audiobook but mostly I just (aim to) go to sleep.
also - write everything down - have a list of everythingggg and review it often. your brain is for thinking and doing not storing information!
Work less. 5h of work a day should be enough to produce the same outcome.
I say I'll work on this thing for just 30mins... It gives me a quick out because after 30mins I can say at LEAST I did 30mins... which you figure will compound over time.
But normally, I tend to say 30mins and end up spending +1hrs..
so yea.. lie to yourself a bit
Give your job second best, give yourself your freshest morning hours.
Go to bed early.
I experimented with every known sleeping pattern, every known diet, every known exercise regimen, every known pattern of time-management, etc.
Or, at least it sure felt like that to me...
In the end, none of those things solved the problem -- though I tried very very hard to make each of them work...
You see, what it all boils down to is simply this:
"A man cannot have two masters".
Your work is one master, your hobbies are the other, if they are not aligned, if you are not doing what you'd like to be doing at work, then you are being ripped apart by two masters; two things which compete for your time...
If work de-energizes you, and your hobbies energize you, then you need to change jobs and bosses -- such that you can do what you want to do, and not what you feel is a drag.
This may mean taking a significant pay cut, to get a job where you can do things closer to what you'd like to be doing, closer to your hobbies...
If that's an issue for you, then I don't want to hear any more -- you've already consigned yourself to a prison cell, and if you say "I don't want to take a pay cut" -- then that way of thinking basically locks the door on your prison cell -- and throws away the key. (The key to solving this problem, incidentally, is to get out a piece of paper, and, with respect to change, write down the things you are inflexible about (for many people this will be salary), and write down the things you are flexible about, then, while looking at this set of two lists, and using the things you are flexible about, you'll be able to figure out a better solution than what you've got going currently. The key is flexibility!)
The best solution, is a job where your interests align to exactly what that employer wants.
The second best solution is getting your current employer to cut your hours, for example, if you could meet all of your financial obligations by working say, only a 4 or 5 hour day, then this would add a ton of time and energy to you when you get home (or you could use the extra time for an afternoon catnap for more energy, or what-have-you).
If your employer can't or won't do that -- then you need a different, more-flexible employer...
Salary be damned...
Or you can stay locked-in and burned-out for the rest of your life, until your 401K matures...
Your choice...
Look, I've been there, so I completely sympathize, but you have to understand something, and that is that your experience in life now is the result of your choices and only your choices.
If you want something different in life, if you want change, then:
Make a different choice...