HACKER Q&A
📣 cphoover

Trade Organization for Software Engineers?


My stress levels have increase 100x tonight. I've spent the last 30 minutes trying to change my account password on teladoc.com, so my partner and I could join our couples therapy session.

After going through the password reset flow, the website says "your password has been successfully changed". Then after going to login I get "your password is not recognized"... needless to say we ended up missing our appointment tonight which has me feeling frustrated and defeated.

I'm a software developer by trade and understand systems can have failures from time to time, for certain peripheral services this may be acceptable. However, Certain mission-critical services should always be made available and made redundant if possible. It's inexcusable for example that access to healthcare should be prevented by a software glitch like the one I encountered.

My experience as a developer for 10+ years and user for longer, is that these types of UX issues are pernicious and all too common, especially within web applications.

I can't help but wonder if some of the problem with user experience is a result of the caliber of the "developers" working on these systems, and what kind of compromises they deliver and deem acceptable to appease the wishes of their engineering managers.

I wonder if this problem could be at least partially ameliorated through the creation of a software engineering trade group. Such a group could handle certifications to make sure developers are worthy of building such dire, mission-critical applications. They could create standards that must be met in order to keep a license or certification.

When a plumber installs a water heater, it has to be "up-to-code", engineers in other disciplines often must be licensed or certified to work in their respective fields, why is this different for Software Engineers?


  👤 gregjor Accepted Answer ✓
Because software development, unlike plumbing, does not have an agreed-upon set of core skills or best practices. We don’t know how to measure software quality or reliability. We struggle with the hiring process. We can’t define or measure programmer productivity.

These problems are old and well-known. Multiple attempts at certifications and core skills have fallen flat, partly because demand outstrips supply, partly because the languages and tools move so fast.

That said, we’ve probably all had the experience of the car that won’t start, the electrical outlet that doesn’t work, the door that sticks in the frame. Shit happens and it’s not necessarily because of widespread incompetence. Be careful extrapolating from a small sample. I’ve been in the software dev business for 40+ years. I’m amazed that our code works as well as it does, because I know what it probably looks like.

Programming is hard. While I agree somewhat that programming, and web development in particular, has attracted a lot of people with questionable skills and little experience, I don’t have a solution.

For the specific problem you described, a password manager eliminates most of those problems.


👤 trinovantes
AFAIK in Ontario, it's illegal to use "engineer" in your job title without a professional engineering license, including software engineer. Most people don't bother getting it because it's unnecessary for most dev jobs and I doubt it's actively enforced unless there's an incident that resulted in loss of life.

👤 SCUSKU
Before the pandemic uprooted in person gatherings, I was enjoying camaraderie via IEEE meetings. Even though IEEE is technically focused on electrical engineering, I have found that almost all EE's can code, and that many of them transition into SDE's. This might be one potential avenue?

👤 KlarkWhite
If I understand correctly, then you are looking for a trade organization of software engineers? Maybe I can help you with that. Do you do this for the opportunity to share your skills or find the right specialist? Then (https://engre.co/) should help with this. To be honest, I did not use their services much on my own, but I communicated with those who did it. So take it to use. All the best!