HACKER Q&A
📣 burned_out

Am I experiencing burn-out or just getting too old


I am currently at a place where thinking about doing anything on the computer is making me anxious. Over the last two months I’ve worked for maybe 5 days in total (recovering from Covid, taking vacation days). I am at a senior dev position with the highest salary amongst devs, yet lately I do not contribute and it is very noticeable. I have zero will or passion to work. Am I getting too old (44)? Am I experiencing burn out? What is the way out?


  👤 mathattack Accepted Answer ✓
Burnout hits everyone differently. For me the biggest sign of burnout is Sunday night anxiety. I need new challenges (and recognition from those I respect) to get over it. Everyone is different though.

Specific to your case, don’t underestimate the impact of COVID. It’s natural to question things when you go through a life altering disease. And you’re supposed to be exhausted.

If you have a good boss with whom you have mutual respect, talk to them. Don’t wait for them to ask. If not, quietly look into your Employee Assistance Program. You don’t want to get stuck while you are getting over this.

You’ve put in 20+ good years into your career and got sucker punched by a disease. This is not your fault!!!


👤 mancerayder
Do you have a family? Can you stay with this company, but work remotely in a different place in your country or another one? Either a satellite office or an AirBNB for a month next to a forest, mountain or ocean?

I say that because a change of scenery will jumpstart hope and creativity.

I understand the sentiment though. It might also be worth looking for a new job. I find personally that job positions rot like fruit, and I hate staying somewhere more than 2 or 3 years. I can't understand people who stay in the same role for 5 years or a decade, and find that satisfying.

Try a change is my prognosis. You will get better insight into your feelings.


👤 throwawayboise
I'm roughly 10 years older than you. Experiencing a lot of the same things. WFH has made it worse. I have no supervision, and no work assignments. I've done little more than keep up with email since March. I get paid salary so I'm not complaining. Spent about a month playing with a new web framework. Got bored with it. Yet another way to do things that I've been doing for 20 years. Yawn.

Started going to the gym about a year ago. I go every other day and rarely miss. It gets me out of the house. Can't say it's fun but it's something to do and I like the effects on my body.

I'm losing faith that rationality and normal will return. We seem to double down on insanity instead of pulling back to some optimal minimum. I'm forseeing a future where every flu season is going to be 6 months at home and masks and all the rest of it. I'm astounded that so many people are so accepting of it all and seem to like being told what they can and can't do and where they can and can't go like they are 5 years old.


👤 sjg007
I'd recommend that you find a therapist to discuss your burn out. It sounds like an acute episode so seeing a professional could help. They can help you ask the right questions and stop the fly wheel. It sounds like you are engaging in some self reflection too which they can help with and you've reached out here so again I'd say a therapist will help you. It certainly helped me.

Another good resource is the Feeling Good podcast by David Burns and his book Feeling Great. It takes longer to work through it. I found that my burn out left me so tired it was hard to read! I was able to listen though.

https://feelinggood.com/2019/12/16/171-ask-david-burnout-phy...

This last point is going to sound counter intuitive but my burn out was the best thing that happened to me.


👤 jarmitage
Do some basic orientation: take the PHQ-9 (depression), the GAD-7 (anxiety), and the Maslach Burnout Inventory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslach_Burnout_Inventory)

Then try mindful self-compassion: https://www.compassionintherapy.com/daily-challenge/day1

If you're still concerned you should speak to a professional. Good luck.


👤 donclark
I have heard of brain fog and other related issues coming from COVID - that would be my first guess. I am 51, no covid, exercise daily, wife, 1yr old and 9yr old. No burnout here. Do you have music or other things that can help inspire/motivate you?

👤 eyelidlessness
This could be a combination of several possible things:

- Yes it sounds potentially like burnout. You’re recovering from a major illness which can make even minor work effort feel overwhelming. Give yourself some grace here!

- Covid also has cognitive effects on some, even after recovery. It’s possible you’re feeling fatigued or impaired, even imperceptibly, which could make you feel more anxious about your capability to contribute. Again, give yourself some grace, and try to pay attention to whether this might be a factor.

- As others have mentioned, potential contributing mental health issues like depression and general anxiety (these can form a feedback loop with burnout as well). Do consider looking into identifying and treating any mental illness you’re experiencing.

- You may be generally unhappy with your career regardless of title or compensation. You’re allowed to feel that way! Not every “good job” is necessarily a good fit.

- This time has felt isolating for most people, especially anyone who’s been sick. This isolated feeling can lead to or amplify any of the above. If you’re able, try to make extra space for whatever kind of social you feel comfortable with.

Most of all, just don’t be too hard on yourself. You’re doing the best you can, and seeking outside advice is a great step.


👤 sam_lowry_
Dude, I am like you. 44yo, working at a unicorn, most devs are younger than me, but my salary is higher. I had a good chat with the boss who is a good old pal, and we figured that I am a bad fit for ivory tower kind of work and that I have to go to professional services to feel happier.

👤 gedy
More likely burnout, I started burning out easier and getting signs of anxiety in mid forties. Vacations didn't seem to help, but 3 month leave of absence and staying away from computer work and hobbies and getting outdoors instead sure did.

👤 shrimpx
It’s probably burnout. I felt the same after grad school. I couldn’t look at my computer for a year. I spent half that time traveling and the other half getting into visual art. I begrudgingly took a job because I was broke, and gradually got into a groove and found my passion again. About 10 years after that I hit another burnout wall due to an extremely demanding job.

I suspect it’s not age. I have a friend who is in his late 70s and he cranks out quality open source code using keen knowledge of the latest frameworks and community trends. He’s continued inspiration for me.

My advice would be to detach and take plenty of time off, and explore things unrelated to computing.


👤 shoo
Jennifer Senior's article about burnout is worth reading: https://nymag.com/news/features/24757/

Reading through that article was one of the things that helped me frame things when I noticed I was starting to feel symptoms of burnout a couple of years ago -- one line that really struck a chord for my situation was "level of caring couldn’t be sustained in the absence of results".

I caught my burnout fairly early, what helped me was (1) switching to part-time work for a month or so (mix of taking annual leave & some time in lieu for overtime, my boss was understanding when i had a frank discussion that stress from work was negatively impacting my mental health and i needed to triage that immediately) and then (2) switching away from the project and role that had been stressing me out to a new project and a role with less responsibility. Initially I found it difficult to talk about this and start taking actions to change the situation, but once I started taking action to change the situation things gradually started to improve. In hindsight it would have been better to talk through the problem and then take action to change the situation earlier.

I had gotten my head into a bad place after mentally assuming responsibility for the outcome of a work project in an environment where I had very limited control over the outcome. I was stressing myself out thinking about about work outside of the hours I was paid to work. When I was recovering, my mental model when thinking about the situation was that I'd constructed some black box in my mind full of work-project-related-concerns, and that when I wasn't working I'd habitually start thinking about stuff inside the box and then the box would start radiating stress and ruining my day.


👤 stevenalowe
Post-Covid cognitive issues are a thing; suggest seeing a neurologist, especially if the ennui extends outside of work

👤 BGthaOG
Humbly and in hopes it may be helpful in whatever way, I put forward a (translation of a) Quranic verse that came to mind when reading your post (since you are 44 years old). Happy to expand on my thoughts if you would like me to, but for now here is the verse:

[46:15] We enjoined the human being to honor his parents. His mother bore him arduously, gave birth to him arduously, and took intimate care of him for thirty months. When he reaches maturity, and reaches the age of forty, he should say, "My Lord, direct me to appreciate the blessings You have bestowed upon me and upon my parents, and to do the righteous works that please You. Let my children be righteous as well. I have repented to You; I am a submitter."

Edit: translation by Rashad Khalifa


👤 blastonico
Thank you for bringing this topic. I'm 40, in Brazil, senior soft. eng, experiencing the same thing (but I haven't Covid). I'm basically in a spiral of bad feelings, but guilty for not doing a good job is the worst.

👤 ActorNightly
So aside from the standard "go get yourself checked out because of Covid, go see a therapist" advice, I highly recommend shrooms. With a good dose, its like a reset for the brain, which is more important as you get older and your neural pathways get solidified into strong patterns of thinking, leaving you less able to deal with changing circumstances.

I trip once a year, and its been instrumental for my mental health. One of the things that it helped me figure out is that I actually do better under stress, so now I often create artifical stress in my life to get me to do things.


👤 devfrend
Just read everything in this thread. Have nothing worthwhile to add other than having created a Gitter chatroom dealing with developer burnout / happiness where like minded devs can hang there together - this is the link in case you want to be part of this group (think Developer Anonymous) https://gitter.im/DevUnwind/community

👤 chrismcb
Don't rule covid out. While you may be experiencing burnout. Right now I'd chalk it up to after affects if covid. I had fairly mild covid and took an experimental treatment (which I may or may not have gotten) and it still took me over a month to feel myself as far as programming goes. You say you have no pryob for work, what are you doing? If it isn't much, you could just still be recovering

👤 the_wheel
I'm also a senior dev and have suffered from burnout in the past. Building tangible things and learning the skills necessary to do it has helped.

Something like this: https://github.com/IBM/MicroscoPy

What you're describing sounds like it could be more than burnout though. I would also try to find someone to talk to.


👤 sloaken
I agree with core-questions, it is burn out. When I had it, similiar symptoms, I took 4 months vacation to go bike riding. After which I was fine again.

I hope you can find a way to relax and re-energize. You said you took a vacation, how long? I find for it to really help it needs to be a MINIMUM of 3 weeks. 1 week to ramp down, one week to actually relax, last week for me is always ramping up again.


👤 shadykiller
What do you do when you aren’t productive? Is there anything else you enjoy outside work where you feel productive?

👤 me_me_me
Oh god, this reads like I wrote it myself.

The worst thing is every day I feel worse because I don't feel like I am contributing. And that keeps adding to the feeling of anxiety.

I started staying late trying to catchup on work, but that I think made things worse since it fucked with my down time.

Agh... how do I dig myself out?


👤 core-questions
Yes, you're experiencing burnout. At this point, you've probably also damaged your relationship with the team; perhaps not irreperably but it will take some humility and some hard work if you want to catch back up.

Maybe it's time to look for a different role? You may get a salary cut in the process, you may not, but either way for your mental health it's worthwhile. Maybe you need to move into a role as a product owner, or coordinator, or even get involved with training.

Regardless of what you do, the time is nigh to take control of your life and find yourself a role that you can feel like you're positively able to contribute to without having to do the parts of the work that are causing you anxiety right now.


👤 amelius
Could also be the psychological effect of lock-down, social distancing et cetera. Perhaps this will go away naturally when the pandemic is over and life goes back to normal.