How would you convince your friends and family to switch from WhatsApp?

Steps, I've taken in order.

0. Removing myself from all active WhatsApp groups.

1. Setting the WhatsApp status to 'Message me on Signal or Email me' and not responding to non-important messages till they message on Signal or Email me.

2. When someone asks if we can continue our conversation on WhatsApp, politely informing them that I don't use WhatsApp and asking them to message on Signal.

3. Setting a Tasker auto reply for WhatsApp, informing the sender that I'm not available on WhatsApp and they have to message me on Signal or Email me.

3.a. Updated the reply message with 'My WhatsApp account will be deleted on Feb 8 for not accepting new T&C' and has set the status as such too.

4.Setting Signal as the default SMS client (Can invite people easily via SMS, perhaps added protection against SMS exploits).

I have stopped communicating with friends and family who try communicating via insecure apps. I send a response saying I will only read Signal or similar messages from them.

Some think this is a hardline, but my security is important to me, and true friends and family need to respect that.

It's kind of like how my sister is vegan, so when she comes over for dinner, I cook vegan dishes for her. I respect and accommodate her lifestyle choices, and she does likewise by communicating with me via my preferred medium. Conversely, for example, I no longer talk to one cousin because he ignored requests to use a safe messaging app, and that is OK too.

I’ve changed my profile photo to a photo of Signal next to its logo along with a short message asking people to contact me on that medium. That way Facebook gets dirty data (an incorrect profile photo). I recon that people pay more attention to profile photos than status messages too.

Then to win whatever argument they fire at me I reply with something like “Thanks for your insight Dave but I’m not asking you to quit WhatsApp. I’m just asking you to use Signal for our group chat and to keep in touch with me. You are welcome to use WhatsApp to keep in touch with others. I’ve done my research, I know what they are doing at a technical level and have decided to stop using WhatsApp.” A statement like this opens up very few avenues for argument because you are not directly accusing the other person of being ignorant. So they will not usually feel the need to defend themselves. You are merely informing them of your preference. They may feel the need to remind you of their argument and the best way to reply to that is to paraphrase their argument accurately even if you don’t agree with it. I know it’s mean and manipulative but arguing about privacy is just a waste of time IMO. Some people get it, some just don’t. Leave it be.

Nobody will give a damn about the privacy changes. You've got to convince them based on other features like stickers, video playback and other "exciting" things.

In my country (Mexico) it'll be pretty much impossible, everyone uses WA/Messenger (both FB owned) many businesses/stores have support via those channels (and that support is almost always faster than calling them) Also my appartament building has a WA group where people notifies important stuff. And to add insult to perjury most data plans include WA/Messenger/FB free. I tried years ago (2014-15) to stay telegram only and eventually I had to give up.

edit: typo

I just did it with my family, who use FB and know at a high level why FB is bad. Here's what I said:

"WhatsApp is now sucking all of your convos (including baby photos, etc.) into Facebook with their recent policy update. We're switching our family group chat to Signal".

My mom, who's nearly 70 did it almost instantaneously.

EDIT: My parents began to understand why FB is bad by reading books and watching documentaries. Those spooked them about how harmful it is for kids. So the "think of the children" might be a good motivator too.

I started using Telegram a couple of years ago to prevent my "online status" on Whatsapp being visible to everyone.

Just start using both, and convince a few close family members (spouse/parents) to start using the app. People cannot be forced into using a new product. On the other hand, they will automatically use the better product if their network is on both.

Now my parents and partner are comfortable with both Whatsapp and Telegram. They use Whatsapp more heavily than I do, but they can comfortably use both. Since Telegram is better (from a product perspective), they also use Telegram when talking to each other.

IMO we can't tear down network effects easily, especially when the negative consequences of using one of the products is seemingly non consequential. We just have to move brick by brick.

I stopped worrying about convincing. I joined other platforms to help others see I'm available (signal and telegram). more and more people are joining them too, so its good that you are there so others see you as well.

as for the rest, I let them handle the inconvenience of having to call/email me stuff... sometimes they dont, and thats fine, I just dont bother. if its important, people find a way.

Simple: You wont get computer help from me anymore if you try message me on WhatsApp. Install the messenger i tell you to install.

You convince them in the same way you'd convince them of anything they're unsure of or against.

Give them a reason that they care enough about and make it painless enough and they may follow. Listen to their concerns and try to find ways to address them or to find workable compromises. Remember that you are placing an additional imposition on them. Asking them to switch services for you is asking them a favour. Each person (or social group) has their own motivations, perspective and other attributes which means that the tactic to win over each person (/group) should be different.

I'd caution against a hardline stance, I've lost friends (acquaintances?) who went down that path to what I'd consider a paranoid extent (going sms or email or "obscure" services only). It just became too hard to keep them in the loop when organising eg group events, so they started to get excluded. Their behavior just didn't make sense considering their (presumably low) threat profile, and they'd made the barriers to contact too high in comparison to the social value they brought.

In my case, these people were socially inept (selfish?) and felt that how we communicated was solely their choice, which is kind of true in a way, but the other person has the choice of whether they continue to try to engage.

I'm not saying that you need to entirely embrace these services as a necessary evil, but it's not a binary choice either. You can be easier to reach on the services that you want to use, and only rarely catch up on whatsapp from a sandbox machine. You can encourage people and help set them up on the services that you want to use. You can advocate for privacy awareness within the groups you're in. You can refuse to share more secret things like passwords on the less privacy-aware networks. All of these things will contribute to avoiding less privacy-oriented services.

It's a transition, and a social process.

My family hates WhatsApp as there are no Telegram stickers there. So it was easy.

So I guess, I'd show them animated stickers. WhatsApp feels archaic tbh

For me it was very straightforward.

I simply told my family I was closing my Facebook/IG account and said I'd be pleased to use an alternative platform if they'd join me. The result was that one of my sons set up a Slack chat and everyone moved there.

I can't speak directly to whatsapp but I got more than a few family members and friends to install Signal by saying "I use Signal for my messaging, you can still reach me by txt but I can't promise I'll respond in a reasonable timeframe as I may not see the message.”

Granted there was a white lie in there since I use Signal as my default app for sms too. Nonetheless it did the trick.

Family is easy. They have a necessity to keep in touch with me, so they'll use whatever I tell them to.

Friends is the one that's hard. In my case it's WeChat not WhatsApp. I only use WeChat because a huge fraction of my friends use only WeChat and nothing else. Considering the stronghold WeChat has in China now it's almost impossible to get anyone to switch at least until something else in China can compete with it.

I have a separate phone just for WeChat because of the number of egregious privacy violations it appears to execute on my phone.

I think I started with my wife to test it out myself.

Then the younger ones. Started discussing it with my siblings, pointed out a number of ways in which Telegram was better, asked them if they really wanted to play into the hands of Facebook (this was before WhatsApp got E2E-encryption I think).

Same with my wifes family. With them they suddenly just jumped at it and switched one afternoon.

My family however took over a year I think until suddenly my until then deeply sceptical sister told everyone that she'd leave WhatsApp and those who wanted to be along should join her on Telegram. And I said nothing and was just happy.

Before and in between those two events everyone else changed:

- church groups

- sports groups

- all kinds of groups for planning and organizating all kinds of stuff

Some needed a little nudge, others went all by themselves.

At some point Telegram became so much better as to be contagious: I heard a number of people not wanting to leave WhatsApp but after they started to use Telegram nobody ever wanted to go back.

Long story short:

Start with close friends. Start it as an experiment. Start with the young ones, let them nag their parents and coaches and everyone to change :-)

(For those who don't know what I'm talking about: Telegram is extremely much more user friendly and powerful compared to WhatsApp in the same way WhatsApp was extremely much more user friendly and powerful than sms.)

(serious) can someone explain to me how widespread WhatsApp is in your social circles? I'm unaware of a single individual that I know using WhatsApp and I only used it for a brief window of a few weeks when I (in Indiana) and a guy in Australia attempted to do a podcast together over a decade ago.

Is this big with folks outside of the United States? Is it something that is largely used in the tech community? My friends and I just use run of the mill SMS/MMS with whatever app, or use Facebook Messenger even when we have each other's numbers, or will indiscriminately switch between the two.

My wife's family almost exclusively uses Marco Polo and iMessage.

I'd just stop using it. I don't feel compelled to use something to be part of a group, but that's just me.

It's very interesting that this is the 4th Anti-Whatsapp post on HN in the past 2 days.

These posts seem to get a higher than normal amount of engagement also. weird.

You can’t. You won’t. Don’t stress out trying. Minimise what you send. Use alternatives where you can. You won’t persuade 60 parents in your kids classes what’s app group to switch over. They’ll all have FB already and frankly don’t care, won’t care and feel the privacy sacrifice is worth the utility. Accept that some people are happy being the product. Like some people vote Red and other vote Blue.

I went cold turkey.

I live abroad, in one of my trips back home, I installed Telegram in my parent's phones and showed them how they can call me (mom started spamming me with stickers immediately), asked each friend that I met in person to do the same. They all did except one friend. I posted on facebook that i'm quitting it and left my contact info. Some got in touch, many didn't. Life went on.

If you're good enough friends with someone, and asshole enough, you can simply say that X is the only app you use, and they'll follow.

A single intolerant person can have a huge influence on a group of people that doesn't care to much. Of course, this will earn you a lot of eyerolls, and some friends may decide that not talking to you is easier.

While I don't use nor know anyone on WhatsApp, I have a few friends that use FB Messenger (which I don't have on my phone) for most of their communication.

Sometimes I get an email along the lines of "X sent you a message on FB Messenger". When I do, I'll jump on the computer, chat a bit, and then remind them "I don't use FB on my phone, so if I'm not near a computer reach me @ XXX-XXX-XXXX or name@example.com". Everyone I'm in contact with has at least a phone number or email address.

Now, I'm 35 so not really in the age group that has 10 group chats, each with 10 people, that have all been going on for many years. You might be in a demographic where that happens more often.

Even so, consider this even though it's not exactly what WhatsApp gives you; it might be useful/healthy to reject the FOMO and half-disconnect (still keeping yourself available, but on fewer services).

My phone is in DnD mode for several years now, so messaging is the best option to connect to me. When exchanging contacts I always mention that best reaction time is via Telegram because I have it on the phone and on all PCs. I only checking WhatsApp when I am on the phone.

This strategy worked super well for me:

1. Keep WhatsApp (for now)

2. Whenever people send you a WhatsApp do this: reply on iMessage if they’re in the iOS world. If they’re in the Android party tell them to switch to Signal

Works like a charm. Thus, I am continuously depopulating WhatsApp to the point where I can safely delete it.

I switched a few years ago from WhatsApp to Signal. I was kind of the one and only person in my Signal contacts then. Most people didn't understand why I left WhatsApp and convincing didn't really help. By the time more and more people started to use Signal too so today I miss no one. I think the topic behind it is way deeper than the technical stuff or which app to use. Use what you are confident of. Important people will use whatever is available to stay in touch with you, because communication is not about technology but about relationship. Thats why there is no point in convincing people to switch the app. That happens by time, or not.

I'm manager of about 100 independent people in Germany, where almost nobody uses Facebook. Maybe 5 of them.

We are currently organizing via 5-7 WhatsApp groups, and in a couple of months we need to switch, by my estimate. This is only India, but the rest will follow, and the change is not acceptable at all.

So I'm preparing now a slow switch to Signal, which seems to be most acceptable here. So far nobody took the initial bite, so I'll have to prepare a longer massmail. Telegram not, this stores all messages centrally.

It will be longer process, esp. since our groups are Corona affected and we are doing nothing. But in about 2 months I hope to have everybody switched over.

Convince them that "everyone" is using your new alternative. Nobody cares about privacy, security, etc. 80% of people just want to fit in with the rest of the 80%. If they think that their tribe is moving from WhatsApp to CoolNewDoodad then they'll switch.

Trust me, I've explained to people how Zoom has had a history of poor security and ties to the CCP and they basically shrug their shoulders. They don't care about that. What they do care about is being cool and belonging. It's the same reason all the old people who used to scoff at social media are now on Facebook.

Well. I taught my mom to use wats app just a year back. If I just uninstall and say they changed color she will be fine. There is just one group called "My Family". My sister and dad can easily migrate. Office and friends are easy as well. Now that everybody has turned on that auto delete. Only very old messages are those and who goes back and reads those.

If whatapp provides api to track people in the group. I will think on staying. Ofcourse with user content. Last seen in this location every 15mins. Old dad problem blackmailing one day I might get lost...

I started switching people over 3-4 years ago. My strategy was to wait for people to need help with their phone, then casually install it there (with their permission) after I had fixed whatever was wrong with it. I've found that people are more receptive to a 'new thing' after they get a little dopamine hit from something getting 'fixed'.

Obviously, that's a little different now with distancing & public safety measures...

Tell them Elon Musk says use Signal. Adds the 'cool' factor that is very important in these kind of negotiations. People like the SpaceX guy. Has already worked for me, although I don't know how long it will last.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1347165127036977153

I don't know why everyone is so adamant that it's never going to happen, it seems an incredibly defeatist mindset to take. The best way I can think of is to make people want to speak to you and then only be available on Signal.

If installing a messaging application is an insurmountable barrier to their desire to communicate with you, I'm not sure how solid a relationship there was in the first place.

I didn't try to convince anyone. I deleted it and people started to reach out on Signal, Telegram and Threema. A friend of mine did the same 4 years earlier and it worked out.

This probably doesn't just work for everyone, in every country. But look, people still use phones and these things actually have a phone feature. You might not be as cut off without Whatsapp as you think.

The whole countries (Central, Latin americas) depends on these and they can't care less about privacy.

It's a non starter in certain regions.

Do what they did to move people away from email: Spam them ;)

worst case you manage to sell a few cases of enlargement pills ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯

Be an endlessly fascinating and brilliant friend/relative but refuse to communicate with them via WhatsApp.

What about using Facebook Messenger? I switched to that and have to say I’ve been quite pleased with it.

I already did. Simply text and continue the conversation on text messages. Now everyone reaches back to me over text. I messaged everyone for 2 weeks that I am deleting WhatsApp account so there is plenty of time for them to absorb.

Now that Signal offers group voice and video chats, it can replace booth WhatsApp and Skype. As I am my familys tech guy I think I can manage to move our groups to Signal within the next few weeks.

Pretty much impossible here in India. Whatsapp is so popular here. They are responsible for almost all personal messages sent, and play a huge role for small businesses here.

what I've found to be super helpful when communicating the importance of privacy to my less tech savvy friends and family, is communicating that I don't want to participate in services that ask me to sacrifice the details of my inner life, especially to companies that I feel are disrupting the health of society, and that is what I feel they are asking me to do when they prefer to use platforms supported by surveillance models, like Facebook and Google.

I wouldn't have to, no one I know uses WhatsApp. My friends and family all communicate with me via calls and text messages. I don't have facebook, twitter, etc.

By refusing to use it.

There's no convincing because I only know a few people who use WhatsApp. Most everyone uses iMessage or regular SMS, or if not then Facebook Messenger.

My cousin switched to Signal last year and she just sent a message saying she was switching to Signal. It's the only reason I installed Signal.

If they care about you, they'll create an account in Telegram/Signal/whatever just to be in contact with you.

i don't know how to do it but my parents and a good friend switched to conversations[0] because this is what I prefer.

I guess people are willing to switch if they care about you a lot. in other words, most won't.

[0] https://conversations.im/

1. Make myself important

2. Remove myself from Whatsapp

3. People will have incentive to reach me by using whatever app I am using

I am still stuck at 1.

Nobody in my friends or family uses WhatsApp already, so it's pretty trivial for me I guess.

Could a competitor with a subscription based business model sneak in and grab market share?

Who controls pictures of the grandkids, controls the eyeballs.

No. In my country (Mexico) that's not practical.

I migrated my family to Signal when we had our first kid. We live pretty far from our home town and see family ~2 times a year.

I created a signal group. Invited the entire family to it. Used it to keep everyone up-to-date during delivery. Now that group is where I share photos/videos of my kids growing up, and where we organize our trips back home. Nobody has complained.

tl;dr: procreate and use your children to align incentives.

I value contacts with my family and friends more than protecting what's left of my privacy from Facebook.

So I will accept the terms of use without reading them like anyone else, continue to vote for politicians that do laws to protect my privacy, such as the GDPR, and continue to fight the privacy abuses at my own scale.

By stopping to use it.

TL;DR

1. Tell people "use other apps".

2.

3. Post on HN : "I'm lonely. My social life went to crap and I feel my mental health is collapsing"

I tried asking my parents to switch to Signal, but it did not fly. They are in their 70s and are used to WhatsApp. They don't care about privacy.

My Mom yelled at me for endorsing Signal to her. She said: "All my friends are on WhatsApp. I don't want to install another app just because of one person."

Outlier here. Never used Facebook. Never used WhatsApp. Family communicates with me by email, or SMS.

Telegram has nice stickers.

You don't, because this is an asinine reason to switch. Facebook acquired WhatsApp 6 years ago.

I don't use any messenger apps, but I work in AdTech. Just curious, what exactly are you trying to hide? What kind of information is being shared by WhatsApp?