Earning 100k EUR in Berlin?

Anyone saying that this isn't possible in Berlin is stuck in 2010. Today there are most certainly well funded startups paying 100k for top senior engineers and/or managers, but that is in the top 10% of salaries in this field.

Beyond startups, there are 1. some smaller, but crazy profitable software companies (think dozens of M in annual revenue with less than 50 staff and a handful of owners) that will also pay this type of salary and 2. some larger companies (think Zalando).

Compared to US and esp Bay Area salaries (which ofc can be multiples of that) one needs to bear in mind massively cheaper costs of living (while often providing higher standards) - day care for kids for example is 100% free (as in tax funded) in Berlin.

That being said, the pandemic is certainly taking its toll as many companies have gone into a hiring freeze.

At the same time, the decline of SF and the remote work trend will likely mean an increase in intl salaries (due to Big Tech hiring remotely) and a decrease in SF salaries.

For a plain senior software engineer position (no matter if you have 8 years of experience or 20), I would say no. The glass ceiling is at around 80K for the vast majority of tech companies in Berlin and Germany (excluding the top 5% of companies).

But if you get into management, I think 100K is doable for a senior position. Other alternative is to be a Principal Engineer (or Head of Engineering).

Yes you can. I am in my 30s, I live in Berlin, I make 100k+ EUR in base salary. This does not include my equity package. I am a mid-level engineer and I don't lead a team. I have seen a few offers in that range. In my experience they are for companies that have the HQ in SF (with offices in Berlin). These are often large companies (300+ people) with a product that has reached product market fit, have good funding, high growth rates, brand names, late stage/pre-IPO startups, tech public companies, etc. Basically any company that is used to paying high salaries for engineers. These are companies that deliberately aim to be in the top percentiles of compensation in any market. These aren't companies that claim to pay "competitive salaries". Naturally there aren't many of such companies (that is why they are in the top percentile) but you can find them if you look around. They are always hiring. The recruiting processes may be a bit more challenging but they are not rocket science.

It sucks that people keep using gross salary instead of net because it really makes a difference.

Lets take an example, with a yearly salary of £100,000 / $122,247 / €109,654... (all same amount)

In the UK you would take home £66,533 / $89,412 / €73,088. (£2k less if you are in Scotland due to 1% higher tax rate)

In Germany, you would take home £52,911 / €58,117 / $71,102.

In Austin TX, you would take home £68,704 / €75,451 / $92,330

In California, you would take home £62,600 / €68,748 / $84,127.

Location really matters for salary and living in Austin for example nets you £15793 more a year as a stark contrast to Germany but comparing Cali to UK is less impressive with the same salary. But avg Cali devs salaries are a lot higher ($131,425 [0] vs $57,930 [1])

As for the question, in my opinion the glass ceiling for software developer is just much lower in European countries and people will try to defend their European country with very valid healthcare arguments and having more rights with holidays and such. If I could I would move over to America in a heartbeat due to many factors from products being much cheaper, being the forefront of tech, culture, lower average taxes across the country and about double the average software developer salary from a UK perspective to me.

Side note but... Earning £6k (net) less a year due to taxes can be the difference of £159,405 over 15 years in a index fund at 7% depositing £500 a month (6k a year).

I used https://salaryaftertax.com/ for the salaries feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in any of the locations.

[0] https://www.indeed.com/career/software-engineer/salaries/CA

[1] https://www.indeed.co.uk/career/software-engineer/salaries/E...

London, not Berlin, but a better comparison than USA:

I know several London Engineers in the £80k-£120k bracket. I know as many Engineers at other companies in the £40-£60k range. I don't know any in between.

Whats the difference? Not much in terms of 'years experience', but I know two things: throwing a poorly specified problem at any of the first group will get me a solution; at the second will probably not. Everyone in a company pretty much gets comped at the same category. There is no 50->100k Engineering path besides switching

Go freelance is my answer to stagnant European salaries. I make around double what I’d make as perm doing the same jobs, with long term contracts that usually last about as long as I’d stay in a perm position anyway. (I’m in the Netherlands but I think it’s pretty comparable)

Anything enterprise-related and in high demand (Scala, Big Data, modern devops, probably also just competent and modern Java) pays 700-1000 EUR per day in the contracting market for the senior skill level. Assuming 5 weeks off and 10 days of national holidays, that translates to 157k-225k EUR. However, Ruby is practically not used in enterprise setting, and Python is mostly usually used for specialized jobs (automated testing or data science, both of which require more knowledge than just backend Python). Out of the technologies you mentioned, Javascript seems like a surest way to high-paying contracts, you just need to get good at React or whatever else is in demand currently.

One thing to keep in mind as well is that the disposable income after cost of living (and the quality of life) may actually be lower on 100k in some parts of the US than on 60k in Berlin. I'd certainly much rather live in Berlin on 60k than in SF on 100k.

It definitely is, especially in the more well funded startups. I have several friends that earn that much and I've also paid engineers in Berlin that much (all of them very good seniors, tho). Salaries have gone up a lot in the last few years, but you have to change jobs and shop around a bit

Yes but not as an employee. I'm a freelance python developer in Brussels, Belgium with just over 10 years exp and 32 years of age. The jump from employee to freelance wasn't easy but I sure wish I'd done it sooner. Short term and urgent contracts are worth a lot more than long term (2weeks versus 6months). You need to know your worth. I always calculate "how much time/costs" will you save as a result of my software: I want a fair piece of that. I focus on those shorter contracts. This year brought me almost twice what you're looking for (before tax). And a good accountant friend helps me keep as much as I legally can. Next year, I'm hoping to finally hit the 250k mark. As an employee just 2 years ago, I was amongst the "high paid employees", bringing in 55k net a year as a comparison. I suggest you look into doing the same with either becoming independent or starting a 1 person company. Contact an accountant ASAP to get the best advice on which structures best fit for you.

Find a remote job with a US company. You will have to compromise your working hours (work at night), but you can go beyond €100k easily. Our company (seed stage startup) has an open position for a remote senior software engineer for €100k+.

This is where you read "Rich dad, poor dad" and realise you don't get rich by being an employee.

Stop thinking about how you can earn and focus on how you can add value to others.

You've got to step outside of the comfort zone of a salary and take on the responsibility of managing to deliver real revenues to others. When you improve someone's life, they'll pay you to keep doing that.

I'm a mid-level engineer as well. I'd say only a few lucky people make €100k in Europe, and most of these people are not working for EU companies. If you are aiming for >80k this continent is a dead-end at the moment, I live in an average EU country and my salary is ridiculously low, 80k puts you in C-level territory.

You could go into freelancing. For normal developer gigs in Germany you'll usually get 70-80€/hour. Contracts are often for 6 months and will get extended in 6 months steps. Depending on how much you work you can make 150k+. Still not comparable to SV salaries, but better than being a permanent employee in Germany.

Going freelance is likely the right answer in Europe. Many companies are happy to pay 400+ EUR daily for a qualified developer, on longer term engagements.

The last pure engineering gig I did (specialised mobile work while trying to figure out what to do next) a few years ago was for a german multinational company and paid around 700/day. Remote work from home (Belgium, low CoL). That was a long running engagement for about a year.

They were happy to extend pretty much indefinitely but I ultimately started a new entrepreneurial project. At ~220 billable days that amounted to ~155k/year gross.

Just adding some numbers for reference: I'm a Swedish developer, senior, and with over 5 years logged with my current employer. I earn €52000 per year before taxes, netting €3200 per month after all taxes are paid.

I think the there are two important things that aren't being mentioned:

First; in Europe, you don't pay for free healthcare with your taxes. It's free, after all. There's nothing stopping you from prioritizing QoL over money and _still_ getting all the benefits of the generous European welfare state.

And second; I don't want to be in the shoes of European IT companies if (when?) the US implements Medicare for all. If top talent is willing to move from Europe to the US for higher salaries right _now_, what do you think will happen when Europe no longer has its biggest advantage - public healthcare?

EDIT:

I forgot to mention something important about #1 - that because of this, it's disingenuous to say that you "pay" for free healthcare with higher taxes. You don't. It's just that the cost of funding falls on your shoulders.

What I don't see here mentioned enough is that OPs comparison is apples to oranges. US and EU are day and night in terms of taxing and social system. In the US you have next to no income tax, much less public transport and social services. For this, in EU, you earn 50-70% of what you can read about in Valley blogs, but you get all this, and you don't have to think about it. I think it's a way, way better system, and I gladly earn less in return. (Note: In US maybe you get some of the above on a company benefit at FAANG-ish level, but then you depend on your employer for it).

I'm not sure what the Ruby market in Berlin looks like, or what counts as a complex project. But earning 100k and more as a freelancer is absolutely doable with mobile apps, cloud stuff, or dev ops. The downside is that if you charge €100/h, you'll probably attract the sort of project where an outsourcing experiment failed catastrophically, and the deadline is tight enough that management stopped counting beans and wants an expert.

Swiss salaries on the German-speaking side for senior engineers are in the 120k-160k bracket (Zürich area, depending on skills and domain). Speaking German natively will also score you above a lot of the local developers (expats from many non-German speaking countries). Taxes are much lower and quality of life is great, but also more expensive. PM me if interested and I can hook you up with local recruiters. Remote work might be possible.

N26, Klarna, Contentful, GetYourGuide, Ebay and some others I cannot remember have engineers who make more than 100k, not all their engineers, but senior engineers. Mid-level, depending on how they define it, earn between 70k and 90k per year.

If you want salaries close to US ones with lower taxes, go to Zurich, but that's a different story.

I don't know about Berlin, but outside of finance in CH, basically you need to look for US companies to have that kind of money in Europe.

You have Yelp in Hamburg, Uber in Amsterdam, Datadog in Paris etc. which are paying this kind of money to experienced developers (Uber in particular pays well north of 100k to experienced backenders).

I'm really surprised where all those high numbers come from. The startups in Berlin that I know are very "thrifty" - no offense. They try to convince you with fringe benefits like free beer, Club Mate and a PlayStation in the lobby - but not a salary over 75k.

The EU and US have vastly different top end salaries. Best bet would be to compare countries like Ireland, UK, Netherlands, France, Belgium, Nordics, etc.

In Amsterdam the top end was around €80-90k, then it's the management path (principle engineer, head of engineering, etc.)

I don't understand how come after all these years there is no rule when discussing salaries in terms of gross vs net.

Net Berlin 60k EUR is probably more than 100k USD gross.

And as far as I'm aware, 100k USD gross is median salary in the US.

Net Berlin 100k EUR is probably around gross 200k USD in the US.

The short answer is that I would be shocked to the point of disbelief to hear that a mid-level developer in the EU makes €100k, which is about $123k. In the US - which has higher salaries than the EU across the board in tech - the median salary is barely $101-102k. 20% above the median is rare in the US, let alone the EU.

Where are the places you'll make $125k+ in the US? A) Silicon Valley and NYC, which are huge outliers in terms of COL; B) HFT; C) Very senior/staff/principal engineers or architects at large tech-centric firms, and you're going to need a lot of domain expertise

I think it's pretty hard to find something comparable to the above in the EU.

It’s possible. Check out remote companies.

I am working for GitLab, am based in Germany and know that it is possible for Ruby Engineers (our compensation calculator was public until recently, and I think sharing a general range that is public info due to public git history is fine). There are other remote companies who pay similarly well (or even Valley / NY salaries).

If remote is not your thing, I know that even in Jena engineers can earn a 6 figure salaries, so there are surely jobs in Berlin as well.

If you are an Ruby engineer with 10 years experience, many companies will consider senior as well, don’t sell yourself short

You could consider move into contracting, if that is something that suits your mentality.

I think you could make 600EUR/day with your experience. Do that for 200 days a year and you hit 120K. That leaves 20K for expenses related to freelancing, like sick days - and you have buffer time between contracts.

Check out freelancer.com and check out which companies are used to hire contracters in your area. I know some in Denmark and Norway, but don't know how it works in

It is not as safe and "cozy" as being a full-time employee - but you can definitely make more.

There are many major cities in the US where the salary you describe wouldn’t be out of the norm. Particularly in rust belt cities like Detroit or the Midwest.

You’re describing a $73.2k salary for a mid tier rails developer in Berlin.

It’s hard to think of a comparable city to Berlin in the US. I think highly of Berlin, it has a great startup scene and a reasonable cost of living compared to other German cities I know of. But it is also somewhat of a recovering “rust belt city” that keeps costs low to fuel this growth.

Let's ask some questions first.

Are you willing to give up your cosy holiday plans?

Are you willing to give up your (at work) privacy?

Are you willing to work overtime without compensation or complains?

Are you willing to work for a company that might drop dead in 2 months?

For short: are you willing and able to take a risk? If yes, then it is not hard. But knowing my (Western European) colleagues, the most likely answer is no.

Do not underestimate the value of stability and predictability.

My salary is $160k USD and I live in Berlin. I work remotely for an early-stage startup in SF. I still earn less than what I would if I was in SF but obviously it's amazing from a DE stand-point.

My previous job was a German company based here in Berlin and I was on 100k EUR (as Head of Product). Any Enterprise B2B SaaS is where I'd recommend looking tbh.

If you switch to contracting and build up your business you can eventually surpass that in Berlin. I’ve never tried as I prefer to work less and have been somewhere picky about what I take, I think if you just stuck your head down and took every gig you could do pretty well.

I would not anticipate that you would see such a dramatic increase in your salary unless you are moving between employers or can bring an offer from a different employer as leverage.

If you are not satisfied with your compensation, it might not hurt to do a little window shopping.

As a contractor ruby developer in London, you could make £650 per day. And now that many jobs are remote-only, it might not matter if you're in Berlin

30 in Paris, finance, 80k€ fixed salary + 10-20k€ bonus.

I make 140k as a network automation Engineer for a company in Ireland (though main office is in US).

It's possible.

Remote work is a good bet. Especially Rails programmers can fetch quite a bit.

I think for more then 80k, you need to be a bit more competitive.

https://www.levels.fyi/Salaries/Software-Engineer/Germany/ Seems like some US based companies offer quiet high salaries in Germany as well.

Not really, no. Tends to cap out at 80k here.

Yes, it is.

As a european in the same salary bracket this is just depressing. Europe is a dead end for highly motivated ambitious individuals.

You are not getting anywhere close to the upper middle class life...

I have a friend who's 30 and will do 100k in web dev in full remote very soon. Works if you know how to market yourself mostly