HACKER Q&A
📣 ndanmand

Advice for first-time dog owners?


Dear all,

I am an academic, looking to adopt a dog.

My girlfriend and I (mid 30's) are seriously considering adopting a dog (8 weeks old); Preferably a Bernese Mountain Dog or Golden Retriever. We both come from families with dogs. However, taking responsibility for a dog will be a first-timer for the both of us.

We want to develop the necessary skills for training a family dog. I tend to study rather intensively when entering new fields (whether work or hobby). However, it feels like much dog-advice and books are based on assumptions and individuals' bits of advice, rather than broadly credited theories?

I was hoping that the HN community - which I do appreciate very much - can suggest resources that inspired/inspires you for training (and living with) a "good boy/girl"?


  👤 kace91 Accepted Answer ✓
Most important bit of advice you need: there are many many schools of training out there (referring both to books/resources and professional trainers) that base their advice in outdated, unscientific and frankly abusive dominance theories.

Long story short, every time you hear or read things like "alpha male", "becoming leader of the pack", or similar, walk away.

Despite the theories having been rebuked for decades, thousand of authoritative sources still parrot them because for some reason it resonates with some trainers and dog owners. It's sad, but there are fields in life where, if you want to educate yourself, filtering the bad advice and not trusting your sources is 90% of the work (Raising a dog is one of those fields, weight training and nutrition are others for example).

All you need for good training is positive rewards and punishing bad behavior with lack of attention "·(ie. If the dog is too excited and stars o jumping around you physically turn around and refuse to acknowledge him/her until they calm).

Have fun with your new friend! :)


👤 talkingtab
Here's a theory for you.

- Dogs are just like people except that their ability to understand things is limited. Not as limited as you might think, because I have seen dogs who were keenly aware of exactly what they can get away with. Some dogs, like some people are indeed stupid, and my advice is to get a dog that is a smart as you are but no smarter. But you have to explain things to dogs in a way they can understand.

- Dogs have a pecking order and as the owner you will establish where you are in that order - as seen by the dog. Some dogs assume people are superior, but many of them know better until proven otherwise. So you need to be aware of when your dog challenges you. This is not an opportunity to be mean, this is an opportunity to show you are a kind yet firm leader.

- Dogs want you to like them. Not to see them as pets but to like them, so make sure you establish the pecking order in a way that you can still be friends. And keep a sense of humor.

- Dogs are instinctual. Do not expect a lab to ignore a thrown tennis ball, or an open container of food. If your dog ate all the dog food that is not a "bad" dog that is a mistake you made. Bad Human, Bad! This goes for breeds of dogs that have traits and especially working dogs. They will try to work.

- Be a responsible person and understand the health issues your dog may have. Many dogs have health issues because of breeding so know this and check it. Also, if you are unsure you want or can keep a dog, borrow one for a week. Better yet borrow two different ones. Just as we don't return babies once they are born, you should not return your dog - unless it is better for the dog.

- Finally teach your dog to lie down when you say "down" and point to the ground. Your dog should allow anyone, even a four year old human to give it this command. At any time in any circumstances. You will be pleased you have done this.


👤 personlurking
Training and socialization are top priorities. It seems obvious but, as I've met unruly dogs, it must not be that obvious to all. Short of those two things, look for videos, forums and communities in general that are specifically for your dog type. Learn about the breed-specific temperment.

And something else to think about: consider getting two of [insert pet]. Sure, you can bring your only dog to the dog park, take it on a walk in the morning and play with it at night, but what about the rest of the time, sitting alone either in the yard or in the house? Dogs get separation anxiety and need a lot of engagement. A normal house is essentially a dog-sized cage, akin to that of a bird. Providing a companion can be life-changing for your pet.


👤 bravura
A dog is a serious responsibility. I always advise first time pet owners to have a child and see how that goes first.

👤 bbotond
I'm the same and I was sad to discover that there aren't any good science-based resources on dog training. What you'll find are books and videos based on the author's personal experience. You'll find pieces of advice from respected authors that directly contradict each other.

What I realized after adopting my dog is that dogs are much smarter than we think in a lot of ways. They adapt to your habits and lifestyle very quickly and they go out of their way to please you. Their emotions are much more complex than we think. If you develop a good relationship with your dog (and with this, almost no advice can help, it has to happen naturally), everything else follows naturally. No book learning will help you with that - it certainly didn't help me, even though I read tons of books and watched many videos before getting my dog.

Dog training is a lot like parenting in that respect.

EDIT: after thinking a bit, I realized I can give two pieces of advice that I think are very important.

(1) Early socialization. This should be your no. 1 priority. Go to puppy classes, go out of your way to meet as many different dogs and people as possible. Go to different places like parks, public transport, coffee shops, etc.

(2) Something I realized that while positive training is very popular these days (for good reasons), there are some cases when you MUST be firm with your dog. You can't explain to a dog why going off the sidewalk without permission is extremely dangerous. The only way I could train my dog not to was to shout at him at the exact moment he tried it, and praise him a lot when he turned around. Now he is off-leash 99% of the time and 100% reliable. I never ever beat him though - the only negative reinforcement I needed was a very quick and loud scolding.


👤 hmate9
1) Take your dog to dog school. Take him, not leave him in doggy day care. Your dog will learn to socialise at a young age (very important) and you will learn how to handle and train your dog.

2) Zak George On YouTube has great content for beginners

3) Frequent and short training sessions are better than infrequent and long ones

4) Enjoy it. Millions of people have dogs, it’s not extremely difficult to do. If you have the time to give your dog affection, exercise and mental stimulation you will be an excellent dog owner.

5) Seriously. Dog school.


👤 ApolloRising
If you prefer intense study: https://leerburg.com/

Get the golden, it will be easier to socialize and easier to train than most other breeds for first timers. You probably know this but dogs are not kids, babies, toys, they need clear boundaries and structure and exercise. If you can't do all 3 on your own, don't get one.

The harder part is decide who is the sole owner of the dog. A bad breakup can cause a lot of issues later with who is responsible for the dog. Figure this out up front to save a lot of headache later. One of you is the owner, both of you can also be a caregiver and pay for expenses. Co-owner is a big no no if anything does go wrong.


👤 hashmush
Get a breed that fits you, your country's kennel club should have lots of information.

Don't listen to Cesar Millan, his methods are outdated (like 50 years behind current science IIUC). Focus on positive reinforcement, you want to have fun with your dog, not dominate it.

Do things in different environments to make your dog comfortable and have confidence (e.g. go to both city centers and the forest). Also, if you have time for it, pick up an activity like agility (super fun, we do it a lot) or nose work. It helps both you, your dog and strengthens your bond.

There is definitely science behind training and dog behavior, but I can only give you pointers in Swedish unfortunately.


👤 fooblat
I would say make sure to look into the needs of the exact breed you intend to adopt and make sure that fits with your lifestyle. For example some dogs needs 1+ hours solid exercise everyday or they get very destructive in your house.

👤 aegis4244
Dog whisperer videos. If you have kids, have the kids give tons of tummy rubs. Seriously.

Dogs only really argue about who is the boss. If you are on your back with your feet in the air having your belly rubbed- you are not the boss. This matters because the boss dog can do anything it wants. Including bite your kid. Make sure the dog knows the kid is actually a boss dog.


👤 epanchin
Working dogs are a bit like teenagers, they get bored and destructive unless they’ve got purpose and kept busy.

Retrievers are easier. Feed them, show them love and take them on walks and they’re happy.

If you spend a entire day working your retriever will lie next to you. The Burmese will find a block of cheese somewhere and either eat it or bury it in the garden to eat later.


👤 aegis4244
Get the golden, or even better,get a black lab from the pound. Great dogs. Smart. Easy to teach. Great family dogs. Also, once they go into a pound, they don't come out. Everyone chooses a 'pretty: dog with an interesting color coat. Don't pick the prettiest dog. Someone else will. Pick a smart trainable black lab.

👤 lordnacho
I got a dog last year, a lab. To start with, you want one with a temperament that suits you. My dog is very mellow, no aggression at all. Make sure you get to see the puppy with its mother. That will also tell you if the seller is legit.

You have to have time to train it. Both for the practical stuff like not pooping inside, but also behaviour so the dog does what you want.

Try some different foods, toys and leads. It's interesting how one variety works while the others don't. Eg I got a front leader for the leash and she's much easier to walk. Similar with food, some things she likes for whatever reason.

I also found that dog manuals are like baby manuals. Lots of unsubstantiated advice. Who knows whether anyone has tested it. All you can do is think whether it seems likely that there's been enough observations that someone with no statistical knowledge would get the right conclusions anyway.


👤 merelysounds
Both this book and the youtube channel has been very helpful for us: https://www.dogtrainingrevolution.com/

I like how it focuses on positive training and how it explains important concepts in detail.

The author has also launched a series where he shows how he’s training a puppy from 8 weeks into adulthood: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIot0mHLemQ

Here is another channel with helpful tips, this particular video has been very useful to me: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht8ncX4Kq7M

It shows a sensible and organised approach to toys; it helped me plan what toys to get and how to explain the rules of play.


👤 simonblack
Where you live makes a big difference as to what breed of dog you get.

If you are not able to 'work' the dog, never get a 'working dog' like a shepherd. They will be bored out of their brain with nothing to do and will be naughty and destructive.

If you can't exercise the dog and you live in a small apartment, a large dog will feel cooped-up.

We live in an apartment, we've had one miniature poodle till he died and now, after five years, have another.

She is an 'inside' dog, and has been trained not to soil the place. She goes out for a 'poo walk' every morning about 6-7 am, and has a 'wee pad' on the balcony. She literally is a member of the family rather than a pet.


👤 brudgers
Are you adopting a dog or buying one? There are plenty of homes for Bernese Mountain Dogs and Golden Retrievers. Less glamours mutts are counting days before euthanization.

Which is my advice. Know your motivations. Analyze your ability to accept a dog as they are versus demanding they meet your expectations. Every dog will go running with you. Will enjoy cream cheese at breakfast. Will curl up on the bed. Will try to eat a dead seagull on the beach.

Good luck.


👤 gigatexal
Not sure about the Bernese breeds but the Golden Retriever breed is easily teachable in my experience. I have had success with consistent short lessons before meals and after they have had time to play as they seem to have less energy then and are better able to focus. Good luck!

👤 sokoloff
Dog training classes (for non-specialty dogs) are almost entirely about training the human to be consistent.

My experience (dog count of one as an adult, after reading a dozen training books and doing two dog basic obedience courses [about 8 sessions each]) matches that. Our dog knows what she can get away with with different family members and I’ve inadvertently taught her to “politely beg” for snacks in certain circumstances that I will try not to repeat for any later dogs.

Make them feel secure, be consistent, be wary of over-treating and being too varied in training. “Come”, “Comehere”, “Get over here” might as well be three different commands. One trainer said dogs don’t generalize well. They might quickly learn “when he says that and I’m in the kitchen and he’s holding a bowl, I should sit” much faster than “when he says that and we’re outside and a squirrel is running around, I should sit” much faster than “anytime he says that, I should sit”. (It’s really fun watching them puzzle it out and I could tell when my dog was really trying vs just being disengaged.)

What would I do the same: crate train. love my dog and make her feel protected and provided for. Do basic obedience training. Lots of short training sessions. 10 3-minute sessions a day is not wrong. 1 hour-long session is. Ensure that if she ignores a command she knows that I consistently enforce that what I want happens. (If she ignores a come command for example, I will always march to her and make her come to where I was standing when I issued it. My spouse does not [despite being overall more consistent]. Our dog knows this and acts accordingly.)

What would I do differently? Fewer treats during non-training times. Teach the kids to give the same consistent commands. (Dog pre-dates kids in our house, so this was not possible.)

Our dog is 15 pounds and we decided to let her on the furniture (inc bed) and we’d do that again for a dog under 20 pounds. With a larger dog, don’t let the puppy dog on the furniture if you don’t want the adult dog on it.

100% agree on the suggestion to pre-determine dog ownership and not have it be 50/50, we’ll figure it out, YOLO.

I would 100% crate train. The amount of consistency it provides helps incredibly, not just for potty-training (but it’s incredibly helpful for that, of course). It’s not doggy jail (unless you use it to punish, in which case just don’t get a dog). Our dog would happily go to her crate when overwhelmed by kid visitors and though we later took the crate away, we put the same little padded mats in several spots around the house for her, including one in a closet that she likes to use while we’re working or during thunderstorms.

I hesitate to recommend specific books as I read a stack of them and probably got something from all of the first four or five.


👤 hprotagonist
a good dog is a tired dog, writes wes siler, and he’s not wrong.

https://www.outsideonline.com/2177341/theres-no-such-thing-g...

Most of his columns are sensible.

I’ve met one sane jack russell terrier in my life: that dog had 50 acres and 25 head of sheep to occupy himself with every day and he was the sweetest dog ever after he’d gotten his daily work done.


👤 sys_64738
In particular, make sure the dog is trained to not run or jump at people. Nobody wants a monster dog attacking them so do training right.

👤 flyinglizard
Many principles of training neural networks apply to dogs, so maybe take up on TensorFlow.

👤 ndanmand
We appreciate all your comments - Thank you!