HACKER Q&A
📣 bluedays

Feeling grossly incompetent working in opensource. What do I do?


While in college I worked three times as hard as any other student and I felt more prepared than any other student in the school. I built toy languages, and compilers while others were working on understanding basic data types. Now I am here working on an OpenSource project and I have come to realize that the multiple layers of abstraction that exists has made it impossible to change even one line of code without it effecting the entire codebase. I have spent the last three weeks attempting to understand all the moving parts, and feel just as lost as when I was brought into the project. No matter how much documentation and how much code I read I come no closer to making any changes in the codebase whatsoever. I still have two more years of college left, and I am starting to wonder if I have what it takes to become a programmer. Any suggestions would be helpful. thanks.


  👤 tomcam Accepted Answer ✓
You are doing everything right. Assuming you enjoy the project or product you are working on, just keep at it.

You are lucky enough to be experiencing what it’s like to be part of a real software project. It is not at all unusual to be in this position for weeks or even months depending on the complexity of the code base.

If you somehow manage to continue until graduation, you will have invaluable experience that virtually no other job candidates at your level will have. It will be a massive advantage over your competitors, and when you are asked about your experience you’ll have specific and credible stories to draw on when you talk about how you solved problems.

At the very least, congratulations on sticking to this for as long as you have. This stuff is hard. That’s why they pay us a lot of money for it.


👤 baby
Large codebases can do this to you, but it’s all about finding manageable tasks for you to start understanding the codebase. As the saying goes: change it to understand it.

👤 smt88
> multiple layers of abstraction that exists has made it impossible to change even one line of code without it effecting the entire codebase

Either you have misunderstood the meaning of "abstraction", or the code base has what people call "leaky" abstractions.

The point of abstraction is to create stable internal APIs, irrespective of implementation details. The entire point of abstraction is to create the separation that your code base seems to be lacking.

> No matter how much documentation and how much code I read I come no closer to making any changes in the codebase whatsoever

This approach is necessary, but you won't really understand the code until you start debugging. Can you tell us more about the stack (and, ideally, the project itself) so that we can give you better tips? Sometimes understanding code is a lot easier with the right tools (IDE, debugger, etc.)

> I am starting to wonder if I have what it takes to become a programmer

I'm sure you can do it, but it's also important to figure out if you want to. If you work on multiple code bases, including your own, and you don't enjoy it, or the frustration you're feeling now is not healthy for you, then this might not be the right career for you.

A lot of being a programmer is banging your head against a wall for many hours longer than a typical person would be willing to, until you finally get past an obstacle. Sometimes the obstacle is bad documentation, often it's bad configuration, other times it's a bug.

If the fun parts are not worth the not-fun parts for you, then that sounds like an unpleasant career path.


👤 robocat
You wrote “This is exactly my personality type, and my wife makes fun of me for you. Once I get my teeth into something I basically don't stop until I got it. It's actually created problems for me in other career fields, but it's seen as an asset for programmers. So I know on a personality level I have what it takes” in another comment.

This is a virtue and a fault. After some successes and some failures, you are likely to learn to be more wise when choosing which problem to deep dive into. The wrong deep dive will damage you.

It also takes time to learn that cowboy duct-tape solutions are sometimes correct: this is best learnt by being in a team with someone who is productive in that manner (the downsides of it are obvious to engineer types; learning the positives of hacks is harder for engineers; judging when to apply fast solutions needs a good engineer). If you can only do anal retentive engineering, then your skills are still super valuable, but perhaps try to veer towards projects where beauty and correctness are valued.

For many engineers, I think it is worthwhile to learn the dark side: how to deliver a quick and dirty compromise that meets a need e.g. most web development. I personally find this difficult: google “yak shaving”. Some engineers never learn how to make good compromises, and they sometimes end up stuck in a dead end.

“but yeah... Just get the impression I'm not smart enough for this.“

Keep your humility, use it to connect with clients and users. They feel it 10x.

Finally I’ll add that the best developers I’ve ever worked with have been technically mediocre. Their other skills have made them great - abilities to concentrate on the right things and not worry about being technical goddesses or gods. I have worked with technically great people, that just do a shit job because they can’t get on with others or they produce something that only they can understand.


👤 Jugurtha
Running `git log --reverse` on any overwhelming mature project will give you commits in reverse from "Initial commit" to "Updated README.md" to "Add utils".

Do `git show COMMIT_HASH` for the first ones and you'll see the genesis.

You're looking at the result of thousands of commits, each one having required countless hours of thinking and coding. This can be overwhelming.

Here[0] are some tips that help getting to know a codebase. Some may be irrelevant.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19924100


👤 UglyToad
As everyone has already mentioned it's natural to feel like this and it's just a case of practice.

A concrete suggestion that came to mind is isolate the simplest unit of functionality the project implements and try to implement it yourself fromsscratch using the existing code as a reference; stripping out all the error handling, edge cases etc.

The feasibility of this depends on the project but it can be a useful way to understand both the basics and the rest of the code that seems like spaghetti which is probably due to error handling, edge cases, etc. As an example I implemented part (a simple passwordless connection and select statement) of a database connection library from scratch in c# and it really helped me understand the existing solution better.


👤 calebkaiser
Other people have already given a lot of great advice, so I'll just add this bit:

Working on someone else's codebase—especially if it's an open source project with many different contributors over a long period of time—is its own distinct thing that has to be learned. Everyone has to learn how to do it, regardless of where their abilities as a programmer are. If you are adept (as it sounds like you are) at building your own software, then it can feel like the rug has been pulled out from under you ("Am I actually any good at this?") when you try to contribute and simply can't grok what's going on, but if you persist, you will pick it up. Don't take your struggles now as a reflection of your abilities.


👤 PeterEFox
Ask for some mentoring from the other participants. Try to focus on one objective that you feel you can own. Now communicate your ambition, progress and problems to others. Collaboration is the key.

👤 burntoutfire
If the project is large and old (I hope you're not picking up LLVM or, god help you, GCC?), it can take months to years to feel comfortable within (parts of) its codebase.

👤 seemslegit
The best way to tell whether its more about you or the project is to try several comparable ones, some of the biggest and oldest open source projects are practically impenetrable to outside contributors without years or decades of familiarity, this is a problem since the future of such projects is either to be abandoned as their core retires or become entirely dominated by corporations who sponsor the time for people to get on board.

👤 ryanthedev
Everything is an abstraction. Everything is a protocol.

Keep expanding your knowledge.

Read the new pragmatic programmer.

It took me about 5 years to get over my imposter syndrome.

Dont get hung up over one project. I have written a lot of bad code and a lot of clever code. Both in the same project.

Being a good dev is a lot like being a good doctor. Study and practice, sometimes you will get it right, sometimes you won't.


👤 jwhitlark
Pain is weakness leaving the body, Feeling stupid is ignorance leaving the mind.

Embrace it. School is designed to give you set pieces that can be understood in isolation, the outside world rairly has that luxury. You won't truly improve without discomfort, though the particulars will be personal and multidimensional.

The end skill is solving problems in the wider world.


👤 bitxbitxbitcoin
Read up on the imposter syndrome. The fact that you're actively trying to work on open source means you're already ahead of the pack. I'd say keep trying and engage with others that are active on the same projects and you'll eventually be able to fill in the gaps.

tldr; don't give up.


👤 potta_coffee
Three weeks is not enough time. I've worked on code bases that took me 3 - 6 months to feel like I had enough understanding to start doing substantial work. You should give yourself permission to take the time you need to get a handle on everything.

👤 Dowwie
If you're working on a code base that is this sensitive to change, I recommend you find another project to spend your time on. Choose your battles wisely. Not every hill is worth dying on.

👤 bluedays
Thank you for to everyone who commented on here. The response was more than I anticipated.