HACKER Q&A
📣 obviousreasons

Manager listening to my calls, dropping references in open meetings


Hello Hacker News,

I wanted to share a situation I am in and ask for help or advice. I suspect there isn't much hope for me other than "get a new job ASAP."

My company has gone through some changes and a new executive was brought in to oversee my group.

This person's style is highly unusual, they do not do "open discussions." They never ask for anyone's opinion or advice. They seem to be intent on dictating everything. When they run a meeting, they do not let anyone discuss the topic. The meetings are highly controlled.

Things went from merely low-level intolerable to "wtf" recently for me when this manager began including specific words and phrases I had said to others in his weekly presentations.

It would be easy to assume this is accidental or maybe he overheard these phrases somehow from others. But after multiple iterations of this, I have become convinced he is somehow listening in to my conversations using the company communications app.

I feel he is taking this approach to cover for his lack of skills or qualifications, probably a fear driven strategy to preserve his job. He knows I am significantly more skilled than him so he seems to be dealing with that my trying to use indirect public shaming to control me.

I feel he is highly threatened by me. Despite repeated attempts to get 1:1 meetings with him (he moves them all or cancels them or schedules over them) to have a normal human conversation, he does not want to talk directly.

I am highly alarmed and feel invaded by what this guy seems to be doing. Is this common? I am so against this and find the practice completely repugnant. I would never do anything like this to my direct reports.

I need this job, but this environment is incredibly sick and off-putting. What do I do?


  👤 brodouevencode Accepted Answer ✓
> What do I do?

I was in a similar situation but with some minor differences, and without getting too far into the weeds or revealing too much information: do whatever he asks, and ask him to clarify and be very intentional in everything. Be polite, be respectful, and most of all be responsive. If obvious whistle-blower type behavior emerges (as in he's obviously breaking the law or violating agreements) then take advantage of your company's means of reporting that. If he does do something that's illegal or near it, respectfully tell him that you don't feel comfortable doing that and ask for alternative ways of doing things that wouldn't require you to make those decisions. If he's spying on you, just accept and ignore it.

Here's what I learned the hard way: guys like that weed themselves out eventually. The lack of competency will surface and become clear to his bosses. The overall goal of the company is to turn a profit and anything that jeopardizes that (illegal/bad behavior, bad press, lost revenue/profit, etc) will be removed. It may not happen as fast as you'd like but it will happen.


👤 thewanisdown
Start practicing CYA (Cover Your Ass) diligently. Follow all of the rules, document everything (email follow ups for any any conversation), and be tactful at all times. Give him no space to find fault, and have proof. Discuss your concerns with HR if you can.

Personally, I would be looking for an exit, either mine or his.


👤 gjvc
Win by not fighting. People like this are a red flag that there are bigger things wrong in the organisation. Unless it is your family's firm, it's not your place and it's really not your concern to be fixing it -- even if you succeed in doing so, it's highly unlikely you'll see any reward for it.

There is a non-fiscal cost as well. The more this is a subject weighing on your mind, the tighter your mind will wrap around it and the more difficult it will become to extricate yourself.

You can always get paid elsewhere, but you can never get the time back. Do not waste it in situations like this with people like this. Even if you win, it's still time spent you could have been doing better elsewhere.

Finally, always remember that this too shall pass. Good luck.


👤 duxup
If you can't even get a meeting with the guy, that's a pretty bad sign. Communication requires two folks and if he won't even sit down with you, there's not much hope.

You're right that there's probabbly not much choice but to move on.

CYA in the meantime, be the model employee. If he does feel threatened by you, you do not want to get into a conflict with him considering you're already having a hard time with it.

Work on where you might want to go and start applying. Look forward to finding a new / better place with cool things to do and good people.


👤 speedgoose
It's a tricky situation.

Note that anyone in a company can be replaced. So you could work your way to have him replaced before he replaces you.

Keep proofs of what you are doing, proofs that he cannot edit or remove and that you will still have if you lose your job. Be very polite and professional in your communications, and prefer emails. It's easier to show to others.

You can talk to others in the company, especially above him, not only in your group. However be careful about who you talk to and what you say, human resources is usually not on your side. They don't work for you but for the company. So try to be positive and useful for the company and consider that firing you may be the easiest conflict resolution for the company, but that firing the new executive could also be seen as the best solution.

But you may want to wait a few weeks before starting the hostilities, and perhaps have some jobs leads just in case.

In my opinion, your company will find a good solution that will please everyone. If not, you should find a new company.


👤 davidajackson
I think if you're in a company where you feel you can't bring an issue up to someone above you, something is wrong. I would go talk to someone about it or leave the job.

My experience working with people who don't have discussions (or they only have "1" way ones) is they are bad at their job so they have to be defensive all the time.


👤 watertom
First, is the manager new to the group or new to the organization?

If the manager new to the group then you need to be careful, could be someone's buddy,relative, or has been tagged for "great things" by senior management. Do your homework on the new person first.

Even if the person is new to the organization, they still may be connected in your organization.

The fact that he doesn't want to talk to you means he either wants you gone or already has a plan in place to make you gone, he might have a friend he wants to hire.

I got whacked from a job that way. New CEO, hires his buddy. I report to the buddy, the buddy won't speak with me ever, for any reason. He holds 1-1's with everyone but me. He even has rules for how the 1-1's take place, no communication for me. I was working on something very important for the company, once I finished the work, it took 8 months. Two days later I got a meeting invite from him, entitled "catch up". I assumed I was getting fired. When I got on the call, the first thing out of my mouth was, "Hello Mr.s VP of HR" I shocked the hell out of her, then proceeded to tell her the my boss never speaks to me and since he sent me an invite after completing my project it must of have meant that I was getting fired.

I got fired on Friday, and my replacement started on Monday, he worked with the my boss and the CEO at their previous company. I found out later that being able to hire the friend was part of the agreement before my boss took his job. I got fired without my boss ever having spoken to me. Apparently he was incredibly impressed with me, but he wanted his buddy.


👤 downerending
Hard to know without more detail, but if your boss is a "fear biter", you should be looking hard for a new job.

In the meantime, one (unpleasant) strategy that has worked for me in the past is to start adoring them at every possible opportunity. This can't be snarky--you have to make it seem authentic.

Also, check out on trying to get anything done. Just go with the flow, don't go out of your way to fix things.

No way to live, of course, so work on that next job.


👤 badrabbit
If you just want it to be over say things he likes,be very nice and find something better. In the mean time don't let it get to you. The world is full of small insecure people who don't have a grasp on how short a human life is.

If you want to fight and win, use misinformation techniques to frustrate him. Say things that could be misunderstood by him that will hurt his ego ajd cause him to act without thinking things through. When confronted (ideally in front of others) play the plausibly deniable interpretation of what you said to mean something he/she would appreciate or be flatterd by. I highly recommend reading aesop's children's fables for ideas. Just remember, your end goal should always be to promote him or people he likes and to never act in bad faith.

I've been in a worse situation. To me, I thought about it a lot and it came down to whether or not I should wrestle with pigs. I get all dirty but they have all the fun. Life is short. "This too shall pass away".


👤 celticninja
chat some believable but wrong information, see if he repeats it. it's a bit of a canary trap as he is unlikely to have got the same wrong information from another source, so it confirms you thoughts of spying. but that's about all you can do, if he discovers the obvious sabotage though it may cause you trouble.

👤 fred_is_fred
> I have become convinced he is somehow listening in to my conversations using the company communications app

Who would have time to do this in addition to their normal responsibilities?


👤 FireBeyond
I had a boss who did something similar - not to me, but to one of our people who was problematic, technically. He decided/ realized that this person would often not really contribute anything, but just parrot and regurgitate things without any intrinsic understanding.

So he'd start throwing in things that were wrong. Wait til they agreed with it, or repeated it later, and then "Oh, wait - I totally mispoke, I meant xxx, not yyy!"


👤 mikebos
I see a lot of CYA, this only works to a certain point depending on your manager his/her people skills. There are basically two paths to stay financially safe, do whatever it takes to keep working there by kissing ass or whatever. Or get a nice exit check, for this talk to a lawyer. His behaviour may be against the law if proven and may enable that check.

👤 bb88
First, all large companies have the ability to snoop on employee's emails and communications. It's also possible that managers have asked for this capability to monitor their employees. So no real surprises there.

Reason can always be found for termination. So it's probably not worthwhile trying to fight it.

People think that managers are super fair, but it turns out many of them are more like Trump, specifically with the fragile ego aspect. Simple compliments, undeserved or not, go a long way to help stabilize his ego, and his treatment of you. Ideally your ideas become his ideas.

I know it sucks, but you have zero power in this relationship. So either you play ball with the guy, or you quit and find a job that's more about the job and less about ego stroking.


👤 ZenPsycho
Feed him false information to sabotage him.

👤 dubs333
hang in there brother, jobs are rare right now. change the key, port and lock up comm. cruise control. safety dance.