I have seen this policy maligned often on HN ("unlimited PTO == no PTO", etc.), but from my personal observations at my internship at the company, people were able to take significant advantage of it. One of my teammates was encouraged by our manager to take a two-week vacation after we finished a release cycle that he'd put a lot of extra effort into.
For devs who work with (and like) unlimited PTO: what are the advantages? How have you utilized it, or how do you regret not using it sooner?
For managers with employees in this system: When (if ever) have you felt like you were being taken advantage of? Do you like or dislike the system, both for yourself and for your team(s)?
I'd like to make fairly frequent use of PTO, as I believe strongly in having a life outside of work and in mental recuperation, but I also really don't want to seem like a slacker. Any thoughts would be appreciated. (Aside from "go work somewhere with 4 weeks vacation" -- I'm quite excited about this job!)
1) It is a lie. It is certainly NOT "unlimited" in any way, shape or form, and everyone knows it. Can you take 10 years off? How about 1 year off? How about 6 months off? Nope. "Unlimited" is a lie. There is a limit. But now it is a "secret" limit.
2) Unlimited PTO = Limited PTO and the limit is 100% determined by your manager. If you manager likes you, your secret limit will be high. If you manager does not like you, your limit will be low or even ZERO. Unlimited PTO means a manager can just refuse to approve any of your requests and there is NOTHING you can do about it.
3) Unlimited PTO means extra confusion for everyone. Instead of knowing that you can count on 2, 3 or 4 weeks vacation, you simply never know how much time you can get. And this time can change at ANY time.
4) Unlimited PTO means unequal time off for people. Some people will get to take more time off than others. It is guaranteed to be unfair and guaranteed to be gamed. Basically, it encourages people to take time off early for every excuse (instead of saving time up). Also, it encourages lying. You want to take some time off, better to claim that your kid is sick than to be honest and say you want to go to a baseball game.
5) Unlimited PTO = no privacy. Now you have to explain and justify every time you want to take a few days off. When you have 2, 3 or 4 guaranteed weeks off, you just say "I wish to take my X weeks off at these times". You do not need to explain that you going to just lay in front of the TV and binge watch 90's shows. But with Unlimited PTO, there are no guarantees. So now your manager can demand that you justify every request. Instead of notifying, now you have to beg.
6) Unlimited time off is am employee-hostile position. Imagine if a company offered a "unlimited salary". You get paid whatever your boss wants to pay you every month. It might be zero or it might be a million bucks. Would you agree to that? No. No one would. Then WHY would you agree to an unlimited PTO?
I would take more PTO than expected and then get verbally told, "for your position, you are taking more than your peer group."
What I would do is have an upfront discussion with your manager to clear out what is within expectation. Is it 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 5 weeks?
The problem with unlimited PTO is that sometimes you can feel guilty taking more, because you aren't entitled to it unlike a set of PTO you would get at any other company.
I would have a "minimum" vacation days policy if we do use unlimited but then it defeats the purpose for employers who want to NOT pay for any un-used vacation days. Just do 4 weeks and be done with it if you can afford it.
The actual reason "unlimited PTO" exists is to reduce total PTO and so companies don't have to pay out unused PTO in certain states (the states were "unlimited" is coincidentally popular).
As to "how to best use it?" that's very job/manager specific.
I've had a week-long vacation planned for almost a year now that is coming up later this month. I also recently found out that my entire immediate family, who are all spread across the country, have a week period in February where we would all be able to get together for the first time in years. So I am taking another 8 day vacation three weeks after my first one. I don't think that would be possible without unlimited PTO.
I think it really depends on the company. I am sure the stories are true that companies use unlimited as a way to guilt people into not taking vacation, but it sounds like you found a place where that's not the case. As long as the company culture is there, unlimited PTO is definitely a nice perk to have.
Unlimited PTO normally results in people taking less PTO because they feel guilty or don't see their peers taking PTO and they want to be a team player. Fuck that noise.
Do good work. Make yourself take your self-created PTO time/limit. Look for another job if you hit their hidden limit and it's much lower than you would have accepted had you known (ie. after taking 10 days you start to hear BS about taking too much PTO).
One advantage is that it's really easy to take a day or two off without thinking about it. That was my experience, I live far from my family and unlimited PTO made it super easy to take a day off every few weeks to fly out for a visit.
Another advantage/disadvantage is that it really brings out the culture. You'll learn extremely quickly how the company values work/life balance. It's either great or terrible ime.
A huge disadvantage is that unlike veritable paid time off, if you are laid off, quit, etc, they don't have to pay you a dime.
To be legal you have to take the statutory minimum holiday or the company would be in trouble (at least in the UK), so they are quite stringent about you taking at least the statutory minimum (for full-time workers that's 28 days in UK and that includes Bank Holidays), so typically 20 days minimum excluding BHs.
The downside is if you leave the company you won't get holiday pay. For example, let's say I'm entitled to 24 days annual holiday at a non-DTO company, and then leave after 6 months, without taking holiday, I'd be entitled to 12 days pay (for my paid holiday entitlement). At a DTO company you get zilch as I understand it. I've not left yet but I think that's how it works. Something to check.
I personally think it's a great perk. Depends what your priorities are though and the above is a bit UK specific.
I hit the soft cap of unlimited PTO after requesting my 16th day off in a row. I wasn't denied but had to get multiple approvals and jump through some hoops.
One thing to watch out for is when people say "if your work is done, take off whenever you want".
What that means if your manager has a lot of projects in the pipeline it means your work probably won't be "done" to their satisfaction.
The deadlines and pressures people put onto whoever approves your PTO tends to change how productive they perceive you to be...
Knowing how that works (or just observing) might tell you a lot.
The last place I worked with unlimited PTO effectively worked that way. If someone inquired about what was going on and the front line manager said it was ok, nobody cared.
I too have heard of the "unlimited = no" stories but not experienced them so obviously every place is different.
One of the top comments leads to a discussion of unlimited PTO. There's a long reply in there that lays out a bunch of "here's how" bullet points. Working at an unlimited PTO place, they were right on the money.