HACKER Q&A
📣 throwaway_draco

Draconian rules/policies at your current or previous company?


Throwaway for obvious reasons.

In the place I work at, we start off the day with a standup meeting from members of different teams at 8:00am, which is a little bit on the earlier side of the day since many employees have 1+ hour commutes. This standup was imposed after many of the team members that participate joined the company (before that, the standard time to arrive was at 9:00am). The meeting is in-office, mandatory.

Any person that arrives even one minute late, gets 50% of their corresponding pay for that day off. Mind you, many of us work 10-12 hours a day and are expected to be available at any time of the day in case someone needs us and even during the weekends (I, for instance, have a mandatory meeting on Saturday and it is expected of me to fix anything that goes wrong with our product during the weekend). We do not get paid extra-time for any of those extra hours that we put.


  👤 el_dev_hell Accepted Answer ✓
I really hate when I read a post about a particular issue with a company and everyone dog-piles on with "find a new job".

Usually, the issue is minor or can probably be resolved with a discussion.

Not in this case. Start applying for new jobs ASAP. The fact that the company is willing to dock your pay by 50% for a on min late arrival signals a god-awful culture. RUN.


👤 tcbasche
> Any person that arrives even one minute late, gets 50% of their corresponding pay for that day off.

Is that even legal?


👤 throwaway_draco
Thanks to everyone that has responded so far. I didn't want this post into an advice-seeking conversation, but I really appreciate that you're pointing the red flags. I know that no workplace is perfect, so I just wanted to relate with others that have terrible workplace environments with toxic cultures.

I could go on with the list of things that are definitely off (the gaslighting, the verbal abuses, the fear culture that's been instilled, nano-management, etc.), but that's really not the point.

Also, this is not in the US, but it's also illegal here.

I've started to interview at other companies and will leave soon (and hopefully wiser).

I also think that many of these rules, policies, toxic culture, etc. weren't created in a void, but they were built with one stone a time, all of that subtly disguised in 'the company's mission', or with statements like "less millenialism, more professionalism", and the 'work hard' mentality (that the founders don't even abide to, since they work the least of all, some even have side gigs). I really feel sorry for many of my non-tech co-workers that don't have that many options out there.


👤 WheelsAtLarge
Dude it's time for you to find a new job. I understand the meeting. Every place I worked either had them or started soon after I started. Programmers tend to get in later and later and eventually production starts to suffer. But losing 50% pay is not acceptable. Also they are monopolizing too much of your time. You can do better and should move on.

👤 thowaway11
I'll try to present a different point of view from the other comments. (Whether it applies or not, depends on the actual context within your environment - which only you and the people around you are privy to).

There seems to be some history to this decision (and probably other decisions), as indicated by your comments:

  This standup was imposed after many of the team members that participate joined the company (before that, the standard time to arrive was at 9:00am)

  I brought that up to the CEO/founder and he responded that he's open to proposals. I said that my proposal was to eliminate that policy, but he mentioned that "you cannot replace an idea with a non-idea". Then I mentioned that they should at least reduce it, but he responded that if they reduced it, people would start getting in late (which they rarely did before that policy, and if they did, it was for very justifiable reasons).
I find it hard to believe that simply having new hires would have triggered this change in timing from 9am to 8am. Did someone, deemed senior/important, request this change? Is the standup headed by your founder? Were people constantly late to this standup/meeting?

Further, what is the average/median work-ex of team members in your company? Are people able to work largely independently, or do they essentially need face-time with senior members to be productive?

PS: Try not to internally frame this as an "but flexi-time should be there, it is best for developers" argument. Those are not universal truths. They need to be seen in the context of the business/domain you are in, the maturity of the team, and the culture that the company wants to build/promote.

Context: I'm a founder where I have implemented heavy-handed policies after getting tired of people not adhering to basic work-place protocols ("professionalism"), even after informally pointing out such things multiple times.



👤 wmf
Find a new job immediately.

👤 beefchops
This is ridiculous. Tell us what the company is, we as a community need to know so that we can avoid this bs.

Also as others have said, you should start shopping around for a new position.


👤 gesman
Depending on jurisdiction this company exposes itself to legal liability.

Sounds more like a sweatshop


👤 BrandonBradley
Sounds like a '50% corresponding hours' for a minute late.