HACKER Q&A
📣 artsyca

How do you take care of your hands?


This question may seem like it's coming out of the blue but I realize that we as technology professionals use our hands in unique ways that lead to unique conditions, for example I suffer from hangnails a lot and I know RSI is a deep concern

-- What are your ways of helping your hands deal with constant computer use?


  👤 Yetanfou Accepted Answer ✓
Do physical work, use them in the way they evolved to be used. I have a farm which helps here as well, land and forest give enough opportunity to behave in typical primate-specific ways. I also build stuff around here, now building another barn. I find the combination of physical and intellectual work complements each other in many ways and thought out many a solution while sitting on the tractor.

For the rest I just wash 'm, really...


👤 richev
In addition to the basics (decent workstation setup, monitor(s) at proper height, good quality chair), I make sure I'm using a good ergonomic keyboard[1] and a mouse that's suited to my hand size[2]. I'm left-handed, but can use a mouse with either my left of right hand, so every few months I switch my setup over, to even out mouse hand usage.

I also moisturize[3], although not as much as I probably should.

[1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/surface-ergonomic-keyboard...

[2] https://www.microsoft.com/accessories/en-us/products/mice/co...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Nivea-Plus-Care-Cream-100ml/dp/B000SQ...


👤 cheald
Deadlifts, farmer's carries, pullups, anything else in my strength routine that improves forearm and wrist strength.

I'm operating under the theory that a stronger body is harder to break. Seems to be working fine so far.


👤 _nalply
My experience: The combinantion of signing (being Deaf) and programming were deathly to my wrists. I had carpal tunnel surgery on both hands and now they are fine. First the right hand then two years later the left hand. They recovered completely but it took a long time (18 months). I could work with the hands after 1 month but felt pain when pressure was applied on the scar even a year later. For example biking was a problem. Now I feel that my fingers aren't as strong as before, but I still think it was worth it.

Before surgery I also switched the mouse to the left hand, and a bonus of it, now I can use two mouses simultaneously (for example the laptop mouse with one hand and the desktop mouse with the other hand).

Another bonus: My wife is left-handed therefore I can use her system without fiddling with the mouse. I always took care to switch the buttons when using the mouse left-handed. This means it's like going over to the UK and suddenly driving on the other side of the road with a rental car and not my own continental car. The side where I sit in the car is the middle of the street. This thinking also helps with switching mouses, so that's why it's important to switch the mouse buttons, at least for me it get's easier because of symmetry.


👤 gaspoweredcat
Following a botched operation that crippled my right hand I learned a number of exercises to stretch the nerves that control your hands, one in particular seemed most effective.

Stretch your arm out fully to the side so it is level with your shoulder with your palm facing upwards, now bend your hand down as far as you can while keeping it flat with your fingers together, now tilt your head away from the direction of the arm. You will feel a tight pull in the arm and neck, it may hurt a little but repeat it as many times as you can, this excercise helped restore a lot of the movement in my hand


👤 sawmurai
Do strength training. If your computer use is always 100% of what your body has to do is quickly becomes 100% of what it is capable of doing

👤 nitsuaeekcm
I’ve been battling pretty severe RSI for a couple of years now. My unscientific and anecdotal couple of cents:

- Get an arm roller and use it regularly to massage and stretch your tendons

- Keep warm. Wear a sweatshirt while typing. My RSI flares when my arms become cold. I suspect it’s because of the generic tightening of muscles with temperature

- As odd as it seems, weightlifting seems to really help

- Use a mouse, but alternate hands regularly to give your clicking muscles a break. This one may take some practice

- Wear wrist braces while sleeping. I found out pretty late that I was sleeping while putting some weird pressures on my wrists and hands. I rarely wake up with pain in the mornings now

- Spend less time messing around on your phone. It’s never as bad as using a full computer, but it’s certainly less productive

- Work less. Your health isn’t worth it


👤 DoreenMichele
I do a lot of walking.

When circulation is poor, the extremities take it the hardest. That includes hands, feet, ears and nose.

Improving my circulation has helped resolve a lot of the hand issues I once had. I have visibly healthier, stronger nails. My hands and feet don't readily get cold like they once did.

Etc.


👤 dkersten
I'm a programmer and a hobbyist sleight of hand card magician, ie two things that require my hands to be in good health.

I use a Kinesis Advantage 2 ergonomic keyboard. They're not cheap, but they greatly help with comfort IMHO. I greatly regret not buying one ten years earlier (I almost did, but put it off due to the cost). I use it with a foot pedal for shift and other things. I would highly recommend that any programmer seriously consider getting or trying one out.

If I feel stain or pain, I will sleep while wearing wrist braces to keep the joints straight at night. Its a bit weird and uncomfortable, but you get used to it. I haven't needed to do it in about a year.

Regular breaks and stretches are also good and keeping your joints warm helps prevent damage. Also, I see a lot of people at conferences and in the office hammering their keyboards as if on an old-school typewriter. Don't do that.

Also, as others have mentioned, keeping your keyboard (and everything else) at a proper height is important. Exercise (for your hands an in general) are great too, as others have said. Some great advice here today!

Finally, if you have carpel tunnel specifically, I recommend trying these out: https://www.mycarpaltunnel.com/carpal-tunnel-treatment/ligam... They're a bit pricey and not guaranteed to work, but they did for me. The pain went away after about 3 to 4 weeks and hasn't really come back (after heavy typing on a bad keyboard without breaks maybe, but nothing a wrist brace for the night didn't sort out). I've been pretty much pain free for 1.5 years since using that. Anecdotal, I know...


👤 oedmarap
Learn to play either the piano or guitar.

I've played the former since I was a child and apart from the benefits to your brain and skillset, the muscular development in the fingers (esp the ring and pinkie) greatly enhances overall finger/hand strength, stretching, dexterity, tone, and vascularity – especially as you age.

Pick up martial arts if you can.

I practice Karate but hairline fractures in the knuckles are a bit of a risk due to the hard nature of the style. I recommend something a bit more fluid like Kung Fu or Jiu Jitsu to increase overall strength and mobility for the fingers, hands, and wrists.

Use Kettlebells, and do swings.

I use KB's almost exclusively and they help to build gripping strength and stability for both the hands and forearms. Kettlebell swings specifically help to strengthen the posterior chain and correct bad posture – which is crucial for those of us who are sitting in front a screen for most of the day. It's also an excellent form of high-intensity interval training that won't take up much of your time.

Use Epsom salts.

A few times a week I'll mix some Epsom salts in a basin of lukewarm water and let my hands soak for up to 15 minutes. Very therapeutic.

Take Collagen protein.

I make my own bone broth using a slow cooker– cheap and easy. Collagen is highly beneficial for joints and ligaments, including of course the wrist, elbows, fingers, etc. You can also get the tabs or powder too if that's easier than making broth.


👤 SAI_Peregrinus
Colemak keyboard, mechanical w/CherryMX Browns (blues or a Model M would be better, but I'm in an open office so I'd be shot within the week...) Good positioning, sit/stand desk, etc.

I also rock climb, so I regularly stretch & exercise my fingers. Things like fingertip pull-ups & pinch-grip lifting.


👤 stunt
- Take short breaks every 20 minutes.

- Don't use keyboard on weekends (Your body needs time to recover)

- Have a decent setup. Desk and chair height, arm rest position, keyboard and good size mouse.

- Invest on a good keyboard. I use Kinesis-Advantage-2. You can also go extra miles with Dvorak.

- Use vim key bindings. (You can use it on any editor even on your web-browser)

- At least 15 mins daily exercise for your hands, neck, and shoulders.

- Do physical activities to maintain muscle health.

- Do sport but not too hard.

For hangnails, use a normal hand cream every morning and every night before going to bed. The first few days is annoying to have greasy hands if you are not used to it. After some minutes it vaporizes or absorbs into the skin.

It took me less than a month to get rid of hangnails. After that I only apply a little bit before going to sleep.


👤 mrbonner
Besides getting a good ergonomic keyboard and taking frequent breaks like other comments mentioned here, moderate strength training exercise is a must. I gave up strength training and focused on just running for the last 3 years. Running was the only exercise I did. I was in shape and had good general health but my neck and shoulder and back really bothered me. My family doctor suggested that I incorporate strength training into my routine. So, I bought a few dumbbells and a bench for my home gym. I haven’t had a stiff neck or sore shoulders, back for a couple of months now (knocking on wood). I hope this is the cure for our profession.

👤 srijanshetty
I use the Kinesis Freestyle 2 keyboard which is a split mechanical keyboard and it has helped me keep my back ache in check as well.

Apart from the above, I ensure that I'm going to the gym/doing physical activities at least 4 days a week.


👤 Ididntdothis
I have a daily yoga practice to keep the whole body reasonably strong and flexible. I don’t think it helps much to focus on specific parts of the body while neglecting others. The whole system needs to be in balance.

👤 RichardHeart
Zero-gravity chair, monitor high and tilted down (wall mount 55" 4k TV works great.) Keyboard and roller mouse free 2 stuck to a cutting board for typing/mousing in lap. 1 ergodox per a arm rest was a fun experiment (Learning to type on them slowed my normal typing from 116 down to 108wpm forever :( ) Suggest you stay on normal keyboard layout with better hand posture. Especially if you ever need to use a laptop. Google split keyboard and you'll find lots of options. I did a review on youtube of the Kinesys Advantage split/sculpted keyboard.

👤 mnm1
Massage and self massage of the back with lacrosse ball

Pt

Chiro

Acupuncture

Sticky keys

Advantage 2

Adjustable desk and special chair (capisco and gaming chair with a high back) https://www.fully.com/chairs.html

Exercise daily

Martial Arts (wing chun need to do more)

Weightlifting (need to do more)

Braces if necessary while working or at night

Elbow wraps while working and at night if necessary

Sleeping on the back mostly

Regular breaks

Vacation (never enough to heal)

Using phone and tablets less (need more commitment)

Scraper on arms and cupping

Still have pain at times but usually I can relieve and minimize it. Working to adopt more of these techniques into a daily or semi daily routine.


👤 TheEnder8
It's a personal thing. What works for one person might not work for another.

That being said, definitely invest in an excellent keyboard and mouse. If you are going to spend 8+ hours a day using it, make sure it's comfortable. I can't stand anything which isn't a mechanical keyboard. I have tried various funny looking ergonomic models but haven't found them necessary yet.

Also, don't overlook your chair and desk. They might be forcing your hands into an awkward position.


👤 joveian
One thing I would add is to make sure not to ignore any discomfort. It is easy to get used to ignoring the signals that something isn't right and at least for me changing my posture a bit helps when I start to notice trouble (if that doesn't help, try something else or at least write down when you have discomfort if you can't think of anything else to try in the moment so you are not completely ignoring it).

👤 jedberg
I've use the Microsoft Natural Ergonomic keyboard for the last 15 years. I also do weightlifting once a week to keep the forearms and finger strong.

👤 threwawasy1228
Extremely interested in an answer to this. I've tried many of the things that people recommend and while I don't have any hand injuries from typing yet, I would like to avoid them. The suggestions that people typically recommend don't seem to do much of anything for me, I can't feel a significant difference when I do the carpal tunnel stretches and when I don't.

👤 belltaco
A long time ago my wrist started hurting after long PC use. I switched the mouse to my left hand and haven't had problems since.

👤 croo
Nothing. But I switched to laptop only at my workspace and everything went south for a while - wrist pain, back pain, eye tiredness, my posture was always a mess, shoulder muscle cramped at the end of the day, etc... I switched back to dual monitor + standard keyboard with a docking station and the problems faded away. Posture really means a lot.

👤 emmelaich

  * trackpad not mouse and use sparingly
  * avoid emacs bindings - use evil/viper/... in Emacs and `set -o vi` in the shell.
  * elbow height at desk height
  * eye level near top of monitor level - this implies minimal use of a laptop without external accessories
  * I actually like the very short travel keyboards (e.g. mac)

👤 s_m_t
I keep away from the mouse. The slight repetitive movements used to control (most?) mice seem to be bad for the fingers.

👤 pixelpoet
Somehow both my hands and my eyes are fine as they've ever been (in particular eyesight seems way above average, no glasses) in spite of total computer abuse pretty much all day every day since I was a teenager; I'm 36 soon.

Not to brag, just a data point. Also I'm kinda curious how common or uncommon it is.


👤 skocznymroczny
Getting a very low profile keyboard helped me the most. At work I use Apple Wired Keyboard, at home I use a low profile mechanical.

In the past I used normal height mechanical keyboards and I could feel my wrists hurting after 15 minutes of using them.


👤 sriram_malhar
I think the "Repetitive" part needs attention. Introduce variety, mindfulness and health to everything you do: posture, eyesight, exercise, what you consume (both corporeal and intellectual. It isn't just hands.

👤 sunstone
Get a Logitech "thumb ball" mouse. I've been using them for years and would never go back.

👤 kevinherron
Years ago I switched to a Kinesis Advantage keyboard and a vertical mouse.

This year I started strength training which turned out to help as well.


👤 LegitShady
1) sit on your chair so that so that your feet touch the ground comfortably. For the vertically challenged, if your office chair doesn't go low enough for you feet to comfortable contact the ground without weird angles, get an adjustable angle foot stand.

2) make sure your keyboard and mouse are close enough to you, and that your chair is close enough to your desk, that you aren't forcing yourself to hunch over to type or mouse. bend your elbows at 90 degrees beside you, with your arms forward as if you would use it. This is the most natural and least damaging long term arm position. Set your adjustable arm rests to this height.

3) This or slightly lower is an ergonomic height to minimize weird bending in shoulder, elbows, and wrists. This is roughly your optimum desk height. For most people, non adjustable desks are way way too high to be ergonomic.

4) you can consider dropping the height another 1/2 inch ("slightly lower") and get a wrist rest for your keyboard and an arm wrest for your mouse, which minimize wrist bending if set up right and support your arm intermediataly, but these are not for everyone.

5) If you're really into preserving your long term health, purchase a vertical mouse or scroll mouse to use during non gaming times. They take some getting used to but then you aren't always using the same muscles in the same position. The goal here is to vary the use.

7) the top of your monitor(s) should be roughly around your comfortable eye level so you aren't looking up.

8) Stretch your wrists and forearms every hour or two. One stretch I like to do that has helped me with my tennis elbow is veru simple. Stand up with room in front of you to swing your arms. Hold your arms all the way down with your elbows straight or near straight and your fingers facing forward, palm down.

Slowly swing your arms forward and up, keeping your fingers facing forward.

As you get to the top of the arc, tilt your wrist forward and curl your fingers. No need to make a fist.

Hold for 10-30 seconds where it feels like its stretching in your inner and outer elbow, and in the tendons around your hand and wrist. Repeat a handfull of time a day while working on a computer.

9) If something is hurting, this is an injury. Figure out what's causing it and treat the cause, not just the injury, or it won't get better. Consider reducing computer usage or activities with repetitive motions to let your arm recover.

10) If the injury is accute (preferably before then, but definitely if it is intefering with your day to day life) consider seeing a doctor. if you have health benefits massage and physiotherapy are both very helpful along with activity reduction. A doctor may recommend temporary use of NSAIDs topically or as pills, or in more serious cases direct injection of anti inflammatory steroids like cortisone. In cases with severe existing damage, they may recommend surgery.

Look up some guides and get a desk you can adjust - even if with difficulty so you only set it once - or something fancy with motors and control panel. Spend money and time on the ergonomics of the things you use all the time - chair, desk, monitor, keyboard, mouse. Your body will thank you for it.


👤 villgax
Push ups & pull ups.

👤 etrautmann
I find that climbing helps prevent typing related RSI

👤 cerberusss
Work 8 hours per day, and then go home.